Crime Seen | Episode 84: Murder in Boston: Roots, Rampage & Reckoning

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[00:02:57] Hello, everyone.

[00:02:58] I'm Mari Forth.

[00:02:59] I'm Sarah Carradine, podcasting from Aura Sydney.

[00:03:04] And this is Crime Seen the true crime review podcast where we get to the heart of how true crime

[00:03:08] stories are told.

[00:03:09] You can get this podcast along with all the other fantastic reality TV content by subscribing

[00:03:14] to Rob has a website dot com slash RHAP UPS feed that's Rob has a website dot com slash

[00:03:23] crime feed.

[00:03:24] You'll get your true crime on Tuesdays.

[00:03:25] If you've already subscribed, thank you very much.

[00:03:26] So Mari, we have some true crime news today.

[00:03:27] It's sad news the death of 32 year old Tyler Goodson who was a close friend of John McLemore,

[00:03:34] the man who was extensive and he was a lot more active than I thought.

[00:03:37] I'm sure you guys really love him.

[00:03:38] And I think that's what I'm going to be doing right now.

[00:03:39] I'm going to be trying to talk about what I'm going to do.

[00:03:40] And I'm going to be a little bit more active.

[00:03:41] I'm going to be a little bit more active.

[00:03:42] I'm going to be able to talk about the next few days.

[00:03:43] I'm going to be a little bit more active.

[00:03:44] I'm going to be a little bit more active.

[00:03:45] So Mari, I'm going to be a little bit more active.

[00:04:16] Hopefully, who has ever news among people who are interested in weed products.

[00:04:19] Very much so you know that.

[00:04:21] JJ brother Barry Nooch laughful.

[00:04:31] She never enjoyed it anything despite reading them.

[00:04:32] Fabulous Tyler thank you for that.

[00:04:33] Tyler saidаж had brought a deluge of attention on him on the town

[00:04:39] Wow.

[00:04:41] Yeah, I mean, we've talked and we've talked with our guests as well about, you know, how

[00:04:50] what the responsibility of true crime podcasting is.

[00:04:53] I mean, we report on the on the properties, but we're always, I hope aware of and looking

[00:04:59] at how the people involved are being affected.

[00:05:03] This is a very sad story.

[00:05:05] The Guardian has a fantastic article and we will link to that in the show notes.

[00:05:10] Yeah.

[00:05:12] Mary, what did we watch this week?

[00:05:14] This week we watched Murder and Boston roots, rampage and reckoning directed by Jason

[00:05:21] here who directed the last dance.

[00:05:24] Oh, sorry.

[00:05:25] Yes.

[00:05:26] The last dance is an amazing docu series just fantastic.

[00:05:32] It's a three part docu series dropping weekly on Max in the US and binge in Australia.

[00:05:38] If you're listening to this, the day drops currently the first two episodes are out.

[00:05:44] However, we will only be talking about the first episode.

[00:05:47] We'll give you the rundown and recommend whether or not to keep watching.

[00:05:53] And now to a guest.

[00:05:55] We have an amazing returning guest.

[00:05:57] She's a guest, a guest, a guest, savior complex with her.

[00:06:00] And here she is again with her social justice warrior cape on.

[00:06:04] It's four timer.

[00:06:05] Do you worry?

[00:06:06] Do you know how are you?

[00:06:08] I am doing great.

[00:06:09] It makes me so happy.

[00:06:10] I'm one away from the five timers club.

[00:06:12] I might get like a magnifying glass with it or something.

[00:06:16] We promised we promised Matt a hat.

[00:06:19] I think you will.

[00:06:20] I will also take a hat.

[00:06:22] Yes.

[00:06:24] But I mean, last time I think we were all very unsatisfied with the framing of a savior complex.

[00:06:33] I put it mildly.

[00:06:35] I've sort of kind of wiped it from my memory.

[00:06:38] And but I think that I am not alone in saying that I think that even just from this first episode alone,

[00:06:48] I think that we are in for a much more responsible documentary.

[00:06:54] And as somebody that has lived in Boston before and has her own history within like the state of Massachusetts as a whole,

[00:07:03] that this is a much needed documentary because I feel like it's almost like a terribly kept secret the history of racism within Boston specifically.

[00:07:14] But I think it can still be extended to Massachusetts as a whole, which is the state that I've grown up in my whole life.

[00:07:21] And I'm very, you know, obviously this is a very devastating case with very devastating consequences for a lot of people.

[00:07:29] But I am very.

[00:07:34] I don't want to say happy, but yeah, it's like it's never it's never good to be talking about true guy crime as if it's like a happy thing.

[00:07:44] But I find it refreshing that we are actually getting a documentary like this on such a big platform as HBO that while it seems initially like a murder mystery type documentary or document series that it actually does a lot of work unveiling the racist history and racial disability.

[00:08:03] That has come about from Boston and I would argue still exists in large proportions today.

[00:08:11] Yes, I completely agree with that.

[00:08:14] I did not know what we were in for in a sense of the framing of the crime, but this definitely was something that I thoroughly enjoyed.

[00:08:25] Again, yeah, it does feel weird to be happy about something in a sense. But when we watch responsibly made like documentaries and docu series, it is very, very refreshing like Gia said.

[00:08:41] So let's get to the events of episode one titled roots in October 1989 emergency services in Boston answered a 911 call from Charles Chuck Stewart who said that he and his pregnant wife Carol had been car jack and shot.

[00:08:59] Chuck was seriously wounded, but Carol was shot in the head and died within hours of the incident her baby was delivered via cesarean section.

[00:09:09] Chuck identified their salient as a young black man in a black adidas jogging suit. His statement to police set off a month's long man hunt by Boston PD.

[00:09:21] The episode then rewinds to cover the history of race relations in Boston, examining what was termed the Boston desegregation busing crisis where from 1974 to 1988 Boston public schools were compelled by the courts to desegregate.

[00:09:37] The protests and riots influence Boston politics and contributed to demographic shifts and so called white flight to the suburbs.

[00:09:46] So episode one aside, I always love asking each one of you, what did you know about the case going into this again, no spoilers for right now. But Gia, did you know about this case going into this docu series?

[00:10:06] When you initially asked me to join for this one, I assume part of it was because I was in because I reside in Massachusetts.

[00:10:19] But then so I didn't initially remember this case and probably in part because this was before I was born.

[00:10:30] And once the pieces started coming together and they started talking about some of the details in there that it did sound familiar to me. So my guess is that I have heard about this case before in some sort of like second hand information or as like a throwaway fun fact or something, but there are parts of this that do seem very familiar here.

[00:10:55] So how about you, did you have any clue about this case or recollection or anything?

[00:11:01] It wasn't an instant recollection, but there are some images that are unmistakable. And once the episode started, I thought, oh yes, I actually, I found that I knew what was what was going to happen with the case.

[00:11:18] Not what was going to happen with the docu series. I've seen two episodes, I'm going to be very careful not just well what I've seen in episode two, but the way this is made.

[00:11:30] And then when I looked and saw that he had directed the last dance, I thought, well, and I think you had the same reaction.

[00:11:39] Yeah.

[00:11:40] But there is a photograph that will be familiar with anybody with a conscience, which is there's a little bit of very, very judicious bait and switch that the documentary filmmakers make that they introduce us to someone they're talking head and it's only later that we find out what their

[00:12:02] closer connection to the crime might be. But Professor Ted Landsmark, you will all know this photograph of him as he is attacked. A black man surrounded by white protesters as a white protester is attacking him with the American flag on a pole.

[00:12:22] It's not a poll on a essentially a spear. And this is a photograph that is so familiar.

[00:12:29] And then we realize, oh, we were we've been speaking to him for half the episode.

[00:12:35] So the way that the material is woven and the way that the people involved are woven I thought was extraordinary.

[00:12:45] Yes, I did know the case but putting it in context is the huge strength. I think of this docu series.

[00:12:54] I agree. I actually really knew this case and was very excited to cover this and then watching this docu series, I was like, oh my gosh, this very rarely I've talked about it in the last couple of

[00:13:12] years. But very rarely do I know a true crime case going into a property, a documentary, a docu series and then that documentary or that docu series either reveals something that I didn't know or takes a completely different

[00:13:26] approach than all the other ones I had watched. And this docu series managed to do that. So not only take a route that like Gia said is not wasn't often explored.

[00:13:41] But also does it in a way that is so like educational while also being informative while also being entertaining. It like hit it out of the park on all three.

[00:13:58] So I will say that I knew this case as the yuppie murder. That's how it's always been presented across like multiple true crime properties, like the tale of like some rich people and one getting murdered like they always came at it from a capitalistic viewpoint.

[00:14:19] And all of the other properties I would see with kind of yada yada the races portion or the racism embedded within the case itself and really just focus on money is the root of all evil type type kind of like approach.

[00:14:35] And to see this take such a different turn and also be filled with so much archival footage very up precedent talking heads like Sarah mentioned.

[00:14:50] The lot of these talking heads were there. They're in the trenches there in the archival footage, you know it was astounding to say the least.

[00:15:02] But we have to kind of get into episode one and I want to say watching this has somebody who knows the case.

[00:15:10] But like Sarah says didn't know how it was going to unfold. I was watching it with my husband James who automatically did not he didn't know the case and with like within five minutes of it, he's like wait what?

[00:15:24] Like from just the 911 call.

[00:15:27] Let's let's talk about the 911 call Sarah it opens with Chuck Stewart's 911 call which during the time was found to be very harrowing.

[00:15:38] What did you think of the use of the audio portion here?

[00:15:43] I mean we are very suspicious of none on one calls often used to shock or to give flavor or or color to a work.

[00:15:55] Here it is fundamental absolutely fundamental and weirdly I either heard it or I've read it when the investigative journalist starts to break it down in episode two.

[00:16:09] I knew a lot of the points that she was making with the tape.

[00:16:15] So I think it's it's fundamental it gives us an insight into Chuck we're not going to get a lot from him himself and I just think it's set the scene was almost like a thriller because he can't tell them what street he's on.

[00:16:34] And there is a very creative way that they find to find him where they have cruises cruising around and they're saying okay K59 turn your sirens on turn them off because they can hear because the line still open he says he's blacked out but the line still open and they almost triangulate the position and I thought whatever we think about law enforcement.

[00:16:59] Here's a fantastic example of creative thinking and concern concern for white people in a bad part of town but concern nonetheless it just sets you're I'm not surprised that James thought what when he heard his voice we're trying not to spoil so we won't.

[00:17:22] Yeah, but if you watch any true crime his the setup of using his voice first. Here's is the first voice to tell the story and the story flows from his voice yeah.

[00:17:41] You know, and then immediately smash cut to young dot Adams a writer and historian just looks at the camera and says yeah we all fit that description.

[00:17:51] Well the setup is so brilliant yeah and it was so funny because James also immediately clarky's like wait is he on a car phone I think yeah because you were the the

[00:18:05] some of the other properties that I see they make such a big deal about the car phone because again I said these were known as the yummy murders if you don't know what a yummy means back in the 80s it was a young professional so they're known as

[00:18:19] as yuppies and at the time this was during the Reagan administration you know capitalism was.

[00:18:24] I think yep a lot of exactly a lot of white people were getting very very rich and they were living in these towns and stuff like that and the ultimate status symbol

[00:18:38] at that time was having a car phone and it it's really one of those things that the 911 call the car phone of it all was what really set the tone for allow those other properties so I kind

[00:18:51] of like that this property doesn't even touch on that really doesn't at least in this first episode it doesn't touch on the aspect about how much money these people were making it's basically about the immediate aftermath of the story that's being told.

[00:19:05] So once the police do manage to triangulate their car geo we get a whole bunch of archival video footage and I will definitely give a.

[00:19:16] A content warning here because the video footage is live it is not blurred we see a lot of carols body in these images she still is technically alive at this point.

[00:19:33] But it's not pleasant to really watch but it was one of those things where I was like wow again in the other properties that I've watched they don't show as much of this footage here because when those police found them.

[00:19:48] I don't know I guess the reporters right behind them are who I don't know who was taking this footage but there were so much footage and photos of these people in this car and of this rescue scenario and you see all of it.

[00:20:02] And normally in other properties I've only seen snippets I've seen the very very famous photo unfortunately of Chuck and Carol in the car with Carol kind of slumped over and this footage actually was used on the front page of the broths in Harold I believe at the time of the murder.

[00:20:22] Uncensored so it really was used to spark people's outrage in a sense.

[00:20:30] What was your thoughts on the use of the archival footage.

[00:20:35] I mean there's always you know something so much more real about seeing the event as it was happening seeing people's immediate reactions to it because I have not seen any of that footage before and it's very harrowing.

[00:20:55] And I think part of it is you have to think about like the importance of responsible journalism here especially as yeah and you know there's a lot of there's a lot of cases coming up recently that you know I have touched upon this as well but I do think that you know in terms of the police taking.

[00:21:21] This man's word for you know the only point of view that is important here and you know talking about everything that comes after this the man the months long man hunt the stop and frisk that was happening to black men in mission hill for months on and unprompted.

[00:21:47] And I think it's footage like this and used in the way that it was that was used to shock and anger and cause a lot of fear and paranoia.

[00:22:00] And that leads to what we see now is this justification of blatant racism within predominantly black neighborhood and we see a lot of the results of that I think obviously be the footage of the initial.

[00:22:19] The initial crime is going to be the one that a lot of people remember the most in the one that sticks with a lot of people especially the people that were living in Boston at that time I imagine that identify with with the victim or with that family you know I.

[00:22:36] I know a lot of people that live in those areas that they were highlighting and like the more affluent parts of like right outside of Boston but the ones that really stuck with me as well was the interviews that we saw in that same time period of the black community in mission hill that was being on the brunt end of the months long assaults that were occurring.

[00:23:06] In this time frame yeah yeah because immediately we see in the archival footage when they asked Chuck who did this he says black male.

[00:23:17] A dea's track suit and it's instantly on go you know it's instantly we're knocking these doors were instituting stopping and frisking we are basically violating the rights of the black residents black.

[00:23:31] Residents in mission hill and the mission hill project and the surrounding areas and.

[00:23:38] That part I did know.

[00:23:41] But I loved at this point the docky series itself takes us back to the roots of why there's such a rift here between black and white people in Boston and this was truly amazing to me because I didn't know anything about this.

[00:24:00] Again we're talking about the 1974 busing ruling where basically the schools and the black neighborhoods were not getting as much attention they weren't good because of course like they never get as much resources and black parents petition to be able to be allowed to send their.

[00:24:18] Their kids to white schools and vice versa you know to basically even out the amount of resources that that both schools are getting this is a 1974.

[00:24:29] And I was shocked that was like I was like in 1974 is what you're integrating like what and I think it's very interesting because we're shown like Ruby bridges were shown the like the nine like in the south like the integration in the south and like.

[00:24:48] The 50s the 60s but it doesn't talk about how pervasive racism up here in the north is and how they use net is like they say natural desegregation in these different communities in order to.

[00:25:02] Keep the race is separate and I love the breakdown of the map of like okay the black residents are in mission hill rocksbury.

[00:25:09] Doorchester yes and then like all of the white counter parts and like south Boston Charleston Cambridge.

[00:25:18] The had a whole summer's bell summer's bell is that they yeah and so we're getting the busing we're getting these interviews Sarah I mean these people are saying this stuff with their whole chest there are just the.

[00:25:33] And writing it and young hard are you can see the had a written on the wall buildings yes there's a teenage girl who describes how white girl who describes how clever she was and how far ahead in her studies suddenly surrounded by black students she became dumb like not only.

[00:26:00] They some she became dumb she got a contact and she left school early and blame them hey that was so.

[00:26:11] Hey young racist I look at James I was like really this is why people saw that you dropped out of school I don't think you're as advanced as you thought you were yes I mean interestingly there was a contemporaneous interview with the mother of students at predominantly black school who said.

[00:26:29] We didn't ask for this we just asked for more resources yeah you all decided that this was how it was going to be done.

[00:26:39] Exactly so I mean educational equity is is a fight that's literally ongoing to this day yeah so this wasn't too much yeah but this busing the the uproar of the busing and it just kind of.

[00:26:58] So racial tensions even further until we get mayor Flynn here mayor Flynn he was a former basketball player who came up who interacted with his black players and black teammates and he felt like you wanted to bring unity to Boston and for a time there I believe he was elected was it 1982 is.

[00:27:23] Something to that effect anyways he was elected sometime in the early 80s and he was trying to bring unity racial unity to Boston and for a second it felt like maybe you know maybe we could kill some those wounds but it wasn't it was mostly like racial crime itself was very high at the beginning like near the beginning of the busing stuff and all that.

[00:27:45] But once mayor Flynn took office they they made it their mission to you know stop racial crime so harsher punishment stuff like that and they eventually did get racial crime to go down but somebody pointed out yes racial crime and racially motivated crimes went down but the racism did not go away geo what did you think about this segment about mayor Flynn and then the.

[00:28:14] The crack epidemic that kind of throws Boston into turmoil.

[00:28:21] I mean it's unfortunately a tale as old as time and this is not something that is unique to Boston but we often don't think of Boston as one of the epicenters of an epidemic like this or even just Marry you can't have touched upon it already that the.

[00:28:39] You know when we think about racism in America particularly around like 60 70s around like civil rights era and post it we think a lot about the deep south we think about a lot about these usually what is like a largely conservative states we don't think about places like Boston like this or we don't think about Massachusetts is like you know that usually a stereotype is one of the most liberal states.

[00:29:07] Yes one of the good ones that's what I was about to say mayor mayor Flynn also kind of a great.

[00:29:17] You know I don't know too much about his reign outside of this documentary but he you know again very similar to like a nice representative of the state of Massachusetts he's one of the good ones he has this strong connection with the black community even though he himself is not black this.

[00:29:36] Seems like an excellent compromise here but when it comes time to.

[00:29:42] Step up and put your money where your mouth is shocking what sides that end up in place here I know it's terrible when I tell you I was waiting for him to be shot yeah during the bit where he was one of the good ones.

[00:29:59] I don't tell me got assassinated because I didn't know about him that is true I did think of that for like two seconds yeah they set it up like that.

[00:30:08] They really did they really did and became one of the not so good ones yeah and I kind of expected it to be more the second answer him to being one of the good ones until it's actually time to be one of the good ones.

[00:30:25] Yeah quote unquote but the you know and it's kind of an understated part of history about how damaging the war on drugs the crack at the epidemic the AIDS crisis all of these things in these major city like metropolitan areas like Boston really disproportionately impacted the black community.

[00:30:49] And in largely in part not because the black community is more likely to do drugs or have unprotected sex or engage in enlisted activity they don't have the resources that predominantly white communities would go to and one of the things that actually really stuck out to me personally is that when they were doing the interviews of the individuals that.

[00:31:17] That lived in these more affluent areas the suburban areas they use the word suburban areas like outside of Boston a lot in this part and they all they already made up their mind about these areas before even step foot stepping foot into there.

[00:31:38] With you know they had you know it's not safe to go there they want to be able to like walk through there this is something that happens about any city with racially diverse areas particular like I hear all the time about the city that I live in I live in a very racially diverse community we have very large black and Puerto Rican populations here and we get the same stereotypes here.

[00:32:04] And it's so aggravating to hear all the time and it's not just unique to Massachusetts it's every city but it's often that these areas have already made up their minds that this is the bad part of town this is a bad area and they don't actually look at the reasons why do you think this is the bad area because.

[00:32:26] I've been through the town yeah exactly I think through these towns all the time and i'm not necessarily saying walk walk by yourself in these very busy towns if you're not comfortable doing so but it's definitely takes a moment to realize like okay what is it actually that makes me uncomfortable about this area or about the bad things quote unquote bad things that happen in these towns.

[00:32:52] And it adds up it's not a coincidence that these areas are largely impacted by a lot of the racist policies that were there at the time oh yeah and a lot of them still exist today.

[00:33:07] Exactly and we get from the mission Hill residents they felt to say wait they felt like they could not step step they said they were more in danger in the white areas.

[00:33:17] Yeah and the white areas exactly so it goes both ways and seeing how I loved when they were the mission Hill residents were talking about how it felt like a family the projects you know everybody knew each other in the projects and it wasn't until their crack epidemic until it really got to be as bad as it was.

[00:33:38] And again if you forgot out there dear listener the crack epidemic was funded by the US government and pushed into these neighborhoods you know saying like it you know to destabilize the black community but all that being said like you said this wasn't just happening in Boston it was happening in New York.

[00:34:01] Sarah do you have anything to add before I move on a little bit i was just going to say don't say no to drugs say no thank you.

[00:34:11] Beautiful yeah and yeah and so we're back to present day where the police are initiating stop and frisk to to basically harass young young black people and we actually got one of the talking heads detective bill done for them.

[00:34:30] Bill done for the.

[00:34:33] Oh man what a twat how he sat down for this interview how he thought he was going to be protected how he thought that his narrative would be the narrative that was accepted i mean you see who's making the documentary i mean i'm sure they neutral i'm sure they neutral but yeah bill is going to really come into his own in episode two.

[00:34:59] What a.

[00:35:02] I can't say the words i know that's right i thought it was all in count compensating right there i want to say more but yeah and.

[00:35:13] I did lead to one of my favorite parts of the documentary though which is that they show the testimony to.

[00:35:20] The other talking head i forget this man's name but the Derek Jackson Derek Jackson yes and he was able to provide a.

[00:35:32] Very well spoken a rebuttal and i think that because I say well spoken because if I heard that I had much less eloquent words to say about this and about his phrasing of all if you're not doing anything then you have nothing to hide then.

[00:35:54] Of course we can harass you because you don't have anything to hide and the way he talked about how this is like he is beyond a bully because I can.

[00:36:04] I can deal with a bully this is a tyrant so part like such a big difference in you know the.

[00:36:14] The laws that are in place to this day that allow for the police state to still persist it's just this is where I got like particularly emotional and angry watching it outside of obviously the victim in this case and the hearing about her was also very emotional but talking about kind of the immediate aftermath was.

[00:36:36] But that he is so he is so confident and convinced in his rightness and his he's so self satisfied he's so i mean i'm always suspicious of anyone without self reflection.

[00:36:52] But this goes beyond this marry this man I just took one look at him and yeah yeah yeah he actually was on the force until 2016 retired as a detective.

[00:37:05] And imagine the damage i know there's this man boom boom like Jackson could could still remember like some of the names of the cops that had patrol that patrol or like the nicknames they called build on fat of skinny and fat.

[00:37:21] That was the guy in his partner he said once they gave them a bronco they are basically tyrant and you can tell just the way that bill done talked about power and and he said like hey just.

[00:37:34] Come on that way you don't get killed and I don't get hurt how hard is that to comprehend so you don't get killed and I don't get hurt that is literally what that police officer said.

[00:37:47] That goes to show you that like how are you supposed to do this job if you're so afraid of like being able to go like hand to hand with somebody who's not trained you're just like i'm going to kill you.

[00:38:02] And you know ask questions later you know i'm saying like do what I say or you will get killed is what he just he just basically said out loud he also loved referring to how bad he was referring to the fine line that he often stepped over if you know what i mean wink wink like the the utter.

[00:38:22] You know he is so insured of his place in this ability that he yet cavalier that he can wink wink on calling things that he did yes thinking that we're going to go oh.

[00:38:36] Oh you're so bad bill when they went to rest Alan Swanson who was the suspect that were left with at the end of episode one.

[00:38:48] He says we he says yeah you know we charmed our way in there and we we turned the place over and i'm like.

[00:38:58] But meanwhile I get a big me she hands and he said these are my warrants these are my warrants I hate him so much.

[00:39:08] So we do get like archival footage talking to some residents we got like like mostly kids like a kid saying like he's been they were strip searching people they were you know stop and frisk let's be real only used in these black neighborhoods they weren't stopping and frisking people in the suburbs.

[00:39:29] And also I just wanted to say another thing that stuck with me that I think is still very prevalent today it wasn't it was mostly black men that were stopped to yeah to deal with that that were victims of the stop and frisk.

[00:39:49] Policy but it wasn't just black men it was a large portion of it were black boys like baby teenagers yes and.

[00:39:58] And asking 14 year old if they are.

[00:40:01] No, that's not like go back to their community centers because they're scared to walk home and they have to wait like gets that need shopperones like there these are.

[00:40:11] And I know for a fact those cops do not see them as babies they saw them as grown men which is often.

[00:40:25] A huge issue that plays into discrimination of black people in the police state and that is the media media.

[00:40:35] But it's it was so heartbreaking for me to see I'm like tearing up right now as we're talking about it that like this is just so many things that stuck out to me about just how deeply this racism went and how it still exists today so deeply entrenched in our system that the things that you that we're talking about here like what what business do you have stopping and frisking a 14 year old boy.

[00:41:05] If you're looking for a third year old man 30 old man you don't you just see this person as a grown man because you don't you see black boys as like dangerous adults that have the same.

[00:41:20] Capabilities of like a hard and criminal and that is that's another part that was just so heartbreaking to watch here yeah think how traumatizing that is to these kids.

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[00:42:07] Hey it's Rob hope you're enjoying all the podcasts we got a lot for you this week including our amazing race coverage with Jess and Mike you got to see what Mike Bloom was wearing this week.

[00:42:20] Shannon Gus had all of the Australian survivor finale coverage she talked to Mike Bloom in Nick I dance and I even jumped in with Shannon for a quick check in with my thoughts on the finale and

[00:42:32] Taren and I talked about how Mr. Beast is about to change the game a little reality TV news that we dropped in the feed this week right here on R.H.A.P.

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[00:44:17] So yeah so that's the end of episode one it really just dives into the route of the racial tension and division in Boston which I love that they use this case as like a foil for that.

[00:44:32] Because I think it is a very important aspect to the case that they that is just not known and talked about.

[00:44:37] I think this episode did a pretty good job of showing the immediate aftermath we love documentaries where it takes you back to that actual time you feel like it took you back to that time to that date in your learning you're going.

[00:44:50] You're learning as the police are learning.

[00:44:53] And again this is one of those things where seeing it from this point of view is very different from always being presented how I previously seen it any final words about episode one before we want to talk about further properties.

[00:45:10] Yeah just just a touch base on that this is obviously we're talking a lot about the you know there was a lot to uncover just in this very short you know in the grand scheme of things this is a very short history that is being shown of a large issue that is happening continues to happen in Boston but happened as a result of this case.

[00:45:34] But I don't want to overlook the fact that there is a woman that was murdered here that whose life was taken you know not you know that is a victim of a senseless crime and while and the end of episode one.

[00:45:55] Obviously it does reflect on like who Carol was as a person and very briefly very briefly and like how this how important she was to a lot of people the family and loved ones that she left behind so this is not to say that her loved ones are not

[00:46:18] correct for wanting to get justice for their for for their deceased loved one or that they're not you know like that they're wrong for taking you know the evidence they were told at face value and not you know just wanting an immediate reaction here however I think the documentary does a very good job at hinting towards the end of this episode that the

[00:46:46] problems that they were looking at that they were in like a a crime town quote unquote or that they were in like a dangerous area and that they were looking for a black man that was robbing them in a senseless crime might not actually have been the answer that they were looking for and if law enforcement had done their job properly perhaps they would have gotten justice much sooner

[00:47:11] and a lot of an a lot less lives would have been impacted by the results here. Very good point yeah yeah Sarah please give your spoiler for you synopsis of episodes two and three.

[00:47:25] So murder in Boston episode two is rampage the shocking Stuart murder in sites a massive dragnet for a black man in an added ass jogging suit as we heard in the first episode

[00:47:37] on with stop and frisk powers police tear through mission the mission Hill neighborhood virtually every young black man is a suspect we've mentioned that but this episode goes into specific suspects plural

[00:47:51] and we actually get to speak to some of their families and we see not one of the great things about this documentary is it lenses out to look at societal issues and then lenses in to look at very particular people so thank you to your for bringing us back to Carol.

[00:48:09] Yeah and I just I just want to say that if you are sitting here like wow I sign up for a true crime you know docu series I didn't sign up for a history lesson I think we needed the history lesson of episode one

[00:48:25] episode one lays a very good foundational groundwork to tell you how we got to this point in order for us to go back to the case and really dive into the case.

[00:48:34] So I really want to encourage people to stick with it a spoiler alert for our ratings and our recommendations but like like this is what you use a three part docu series for you know say this is exactly what you use a three part docu series for you set the foundation then you go back in with your facts and more details about the case.

[00:48:55] So if you're wondering where are the details of the case, where's more about the victim and all that it'll be coming.

[00:49:02] It's coming.

[00:49:03] So episode three is called reckoning and it picks up two months after the end of the events of episode two as revelations emerge from Chuck's family troubling errors in the police investigation come to light.

[00:49:17] I mean we've sort of seen them coming down and the black community responds trigger warning for suicide in episode three.

[00:49:27] Yes.

[00:49:28] So Murray you want to discuss another property that 90s is the deadliest decade season one episode one the yummy murder.

[00:49:36] Yes.

[00:49:37] And just a quick spoiler alert right here spoiler alert I am going to spoil the case i'm still going to like hold back a little bit but i'm going to spoil like a good chunk of it so if you want to remain spoiler free to enjoy the next two episodes feel free to just jump forward to the time code and the show notes will have it in the show note so you can just

[00:50:00] jump forward give me a few minutes and then you'll be right to our ratings.

[00:50:06] Okay so yes the 1980s the deliest decade I think I've talked about this on a previous podcast I like both iterations of the deadliest decade both in the 1980s and the 1990s it's two like anthology series on the discovery plus platform.

[00:50:23] And as soon as I saw this stock this docu series murder in Boston i was like yeah I remember this from the 1980s the latest decade I forgot that it was like the first episode like scene one episode one but it sets the tone of that decade because like I previously talked about.

[00:50:41] This was all about money they focus this one it's of again is known as the yummy murder what people don't understand is it wasn't called the yummy murder until everything unraveled.

[00:50:53] As the police were investigating it was all about let's find this black man who killed this pregnant this poor pregnant white woman in a quote unquote bad section house what it actually turns out to be is the husband sets up the murder of the of his wife and.

[00:51:10] Again if the police had did just a monochrome of police work we all know that normal way for wife is murdered you should always look at the spouse, especially if the wife is shot in the head and the spouses shot somewhere else on their body you know.

[00:51:26] But it was this this version of the case again that if you want to know more about Chuck and Carol this might be a good case for you watch it talks about their early upbringing it talks about the capitalism and the greed of that era.

[00:51:44] In time it talks about how they both like moved up the ranks they started making hundreds of thousands of dollars in the 1980s and how they were able to live in a nice suburban area but all of that was for nothing because Chuck.

[00:52:00] Like it's so crazy because he.

[00:52:03] He decides to kill her and there's really still no good reason as insurance insurance money as a yeah it can't just be bad yeah like she she's pregnant he is mentioned that he didn't necessarily want the baby at the time they had been together for years they'd already been married for years but he was afraid like she had a really good salary she was a lawyer she was a tax player.

[00:52:28] And the both of their salaries combined was what was able for them to live a very high class lifestyle so it's presumed that he.

[00:52:38] That he kills her because he wants to keep up lifestyle and they wouldn't be able to maintain if they had her and the baby it honestly if there's no good reason but I do like the deliest decade episode but now after I've watched.

[00:52:58] I'm murder and Boston I see how they they truly just glossed over.

[00:53:07] Everything that has to do with the racist aspect they glossed over the terrorizing of the black community they mention it but they don't talk about it they don't talk about who.

[00:53:18] The case almost ends up on the suspect that almost you know gets put in jail for this murder before luckily they get a big break and find out that it really was just chuck behind it so I liked it if I like it if you want to do it like a different if you want to know a little bit more on that side but I I definitely can't wait to watch the next two episodes of murder Boston because I feel like I'm going to get.

[00:53:46] A more well rounded view of the case as a whole.

[00:53:52] So let's jump over to our ratings.

[00:53:55] Gea how many magnifying glasses are you going to rate murder and Boston out of a possible five.

[00:54:03] So I just let me be part of it is because savior complex was so bad but.

[00:54:11] But I just I thought this was really well done i feel like it's sort of not fair because i've only seen the first episode so far I will definitely be finishing it though i'm not necessarily a person that feels obligated to finish something once I start it but.

[00:54:28] I definitely want to finish it just to see how the rest of the story goes but I thought overall this was a really well done first episode of this docu series and it went in depth in ways that I really did not expect it to especially further expanding my known all my own knowledge on a city that I grew up in so i'll say for the first episode it was five magnifying glasses.

[00:54:53] And I am still thinking about a lot of different parts in this and really enjoyed.

[00:55:00] The story really enjoyed the quality of this documentary I will say I thought it was fantastic and I think if the quality stays the same in episodes two and three I don't see why I wouldn't I wouldn't still give it five magnifying glasses I can't really think of anything that I.

[00:55:19] Didn't enjoy about like the quality of this film.

[00:55:24] I completely agree that Sarah how many magnifying glasses are you going to read it yeah i'm a five i was a five from episode one and then episode two is even better but i can't give it my.

[00:55:37] It's intriguing because each episode is around 50 minutes which is very long if it's badly made but it's actually very short the amount of material that the documentarian gets through and the way it's laid out for you and the people that he speaks to and how they are treated and respected and what they have to say is so extraordinary I.

[00:56:03] I i'm got my tongue hanging out for episode three and marry you and I will give our full review in a couple of weeks once once marys had a chance to see all episodes.

[00:56:15] For some reason dropped early in Australia who knows what happened.

[00:56:21] It trickled downhill but I'll say that I came to the end of episode one as a five so it's not a spoiler to say after two episodes it's still a five what about you marry.

[00:56:31] I completely agree five just totally across the board i was so bummed when i realized i couldn't watch episode two before we recorded this so i'm i'm very interested in seeing the rest of the series highly highly recommend i am glad that we got to talk about episode one and recommend it to our listeners just in case it wasn't on our listers radar i truly believe this is one of those docky series that if you've been listening to us.

[00:57:00] And you know we've been i've been not too high on a lot of stuff recently definitely go and watch this because it it was again refreshing as refreshing well made well produce just really good all around and I can't wait till we come back and we give our you know in depth full recommendations in a few weeks.

[00:57:28] Yeah i may feel like a while since we see something.

[00:57:33] I mean we're spugging for an hour about one episode so maybe.

[00:57:37] Yeah can we do you see it all exactly now let's go on to our recommendations do you have anything to recommend to our listeners.

[00:57:48] I would and maybe i'm a little inspired just got back from our new Orleans trip but i recommend i don't have anything specific that any like information in my.

[00:58:00] Archives my bookshelf on reading pertaining to cases like this however i would recommend supporting your like local historians artists in your area like especially the ones that live in.

[00:58:17] Quote unquote the rougher near neighborhoods like learn about the history of your city especially if you live in a has.

[00:58:26] In a racially diverse city because I am sure there's a lot of very interesting information that you can learn about it so that is my.

[00:58:35] vague but i feel like very recommendation yeah i love that Sarah what about you what do you have to recommend tire listeners i'm going to recommend my current obsession.

[00:58:46] It's a podcast called i've had it Jennifer and Angie are middle aged middle class privileged white southern ladies who look like they would have certain views they themselves they yes we look like we'd have certain views.

[00:59:02] But they are in fact right on their woke as fuck and they are hilarious each week they tell us what they've had it with from slow walkers to perfect mothers to homophobia they have amazing guests and they also invite the listeners to leave a voice memo on instagram.

[00:59:20] telling them what we have had it with they are absolutely fantastic really refreshing one of them is from Texas one of them is from i call him a that they're both living out for home and now.

[00:59:33] And they are voices i was going to say voices crying in the wilderness but I think they are strong and positive voices.

[00:59:42] For good there two of the good ones.

[00:59:47] So I thought I recommend it i've had it podcast with Jennifer and Angie also called pumps.

[00:59:54] And Mary what about you what have you got to recommend.

[00:59:58] I do kind of have a new obsession I if you've been following if you follow me on twitter maybe see me talk about this but I want to talk about the show called found a police style procedural it's like my new new found police style procedural it's called found it is on NBC.

[01:00:19] It's it's new but all the episode around behind i'm like i'm late to it I am late to it because I had to watch other things but it is basically it's so hard to explain because it's.

[01:00:33] It's like scandal lied to me Hannibal.

[01:00:41] And criminal minds all rolled into one it is so good it star shanola hampton who if you watch shameless on showtime she played the neighbor and shameless and in found she plays a black woman who was kidnapped as a.

[01:01:03] She was a child who basically was held captive for over a year by her abductor and was able to free herself from captivity both her she's able to free herself and another little girl who was.

[01:01:20] Who was held captive with her and she then start a firm called mosey and associates where they are not the police they're not the police what they do is they look for those.

[01:01:35] Those people who the police are ignoring you know i'm saying like they make it very clear in the pilot episode that they are searching for the little girls that the police are not looking for or the marginalized people the police are not looking for and all of their cases are based around that like.

[01:01:53] It's so good and she has this whole team and of course each member of the team is has their own little thing and they're their tech guy is a Gore phobic so he's in his house doing the tech from his house they have basically a mentalist.

[01:02:09] To list on staff who she listens to like the people who are reporting the person on last she listens to the descriptions and then she tries to piece together things and that woman she actually it's from the series lied to me and I was like i love lie to me i don't know if you guys ever watch lie to me i do not understand how it didn't get like 20 seasons but it was one of my favorite shows.

[01:02:35] So found is so good it's it feels like I said it feels like a scandal it feels like a how to get away with murder but also there's so many twists in like the first episode i don't want to give it away i really don't want to give it away but if you like if you like law and order us for you if you love cold case if you love the closer if you love any of those.

[01:02:59] um you know like daytime.

[01:03:02] Uh police style procedures i think you would love found definitely go check it out i watched it on the peacock act it's on binge in australia yes.

[01:03:15] At crime scene we're eager to hear your feedback and suggestions for future episodes you can follow crime scene on twitter at crime scene rjp that's s e e in or email us at crime scene rjp at gmail.

[01:03:28] We're on tiktok at crime. scene and on all the socials at crime scene podcast and please remember to subscribe to our feed rob has a website dot com slash crime feed it makes a big difference.

[01:03:43] Gia what do you have going on and where can people find you.

[01:03:48] You can follow me on twitter instagram and tiktok at classically gia for all of my reality tv shenanigans over on silent podcast i'm doing my weekly recaps of survivor 45 on our podcast i don't know about that.

[01:04:01] And i also have a new episode of slosh survivor in the works that's where we combine drunk history with survivor history and talk about some of our favorite moments in survivor history.

[01:04:16] Over some beverages some alcoholic beverages if you will it's a very fun time and i can't wait for this episode to be finished i just have to do a little bit of editing and then also please follow the survivor diversity campaign at serve diversity that's at s u r v diversity.

[01:04:36] And please check our weekly roundups met written by me and my good friend Christine palin on inside survivor.

[01:04:44] Alright Sarah what do you have going on and where can the people find you.

[01:04:49] The people can follow me if they'd like to do that at Sarah caradine on all the things over on post show recaps i'm covering the buccaneers and just finished covering the full dodger i joined Grayson Jess on the full spoiler recap covering Colin from accounts and will be bringing your full spoiler recap of a murder at the end of the world next week.

[01:05:13] On silent podcast i've just finished coverage of squid game the challenge and the Aussie queen spring you a season overview of love island australia season one.

[01:05:23] One of the stallions from amazing race australia celebrity edition teddy when he was a little embryo star young watch out for my traders UK coverage starting with a pre season episode with the winner of the traders New Zealand season one.

[01:05:43] And what about you Murray what do you have going on of course you can follow me over on twitter at marie talks too much that's to like the number two.

[01:05:52] And every week me and she pal over on the connect on post show recaps are covering wrap shit we are finishing it up we about we have two more episodes to go.

[01:06:04] And we'll be at the end of season two but no fear after wrap shit what the connect is cooking up some some movie reviews.

[01:06:13] We're picking up some some more stuff so make sure you go and subscribe by going to post show recaps calm slash connect in order to stay notified when whatever we're doing.

[01:06:26] Sarah what are we covering next week.

[01:06:29] Next week on crime scene we're covering JFK one day in America with Dylan Reeve you can watch it on hulu and send us your comments and questions.

[01:06:41] Thanks to geowirthy for joining us will from America for the theme music and the whole rtp team behind the scenes until next time case closed.

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