True Crime Round Up | Crime Seen episode 206

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[00:01:18] I'm Mari Forth I'm Sarah Carradine, podcasting from unceded Gadigal land And this is Crime Seen, the true crime review podcast where we get to the heart of how true crime stories are told Last week we watched Maternal Instinct with our fabulous new guest Dr. Ellen Marsh from Black Girls Talkin' TV I know you loved her and you want her back Good news is we loved her too and she's definitely invited back Mari, what's going on this week? This week we're doing something a little different It's our True Crime Roundup

[00:01:45] We are covering updates on recent episodes, documentaries, docuseries, and podcasts we didn't get to in June True Crime News and listener recommendations So, Sarah, this is so fun I know, we get to just chop it up, you know Yes Hear from our listeners Talk about some stuff that we are watching

[00:02:06] I know, like, for me, this will be a way for me to talk about stuff that I watch as in my true crime background stuff, right? Like, so I've been at home with the kids for about, what, it's been a week, two weeks now? Lord knows I don't know what time is since I got back from my vacation And so, it's one of those things, like, you know, I love to put on true crime in the background watching this or that or this or that

[00:02:35] And it's a different viewing experience from putting it on knowing that me and you are going to cover it Versus putting it on while I'm chasing my daughter around the house And so, I'm glad we get to talk about some of this stuff that's like, with like less, not pressure, but just very cash We're going to be very cash, right? Yes, no notes, no notes Yeah, I, when I'm watching for us, first time I go through and I take notes and then I have to watch it again because it's a different experience

[00:03:05] Sometimes I watch things I think, oh, this might be good for a recommendation And it won't be something that I want to recommend, but it'll be like, yeah, so I watched that and it was of interest So again, that's other things that we can talk about today So we might make this a little bit of a feature going forward, let us know what you think And yes, to the person on Spotify who was very startled at listening to the episode, The Murder of Rachel McHale And was moved to write, where's Mary?

[00:03:33] She's fine, she was on holiday, it's okay, she's back, we love that you love her But she is back, if it was anything else, I promise I'd tell you Let's start with updates or extra bits We did promise to do some side googling on Maternal Instinct, what did you find out? Yes, so I was able to listen to the three-part episode of Everything Scary Entitled The Many Lies of Taylor Morton Parker

[00:04:00] And that was the one that was suggested to me by my friend And yeah, they did a great job in those three parts covering a lot of Taylor's backstory I think we got a lot more of Taylor's backstory from them than Netflix Which makes sense, like the Netflix property, like we talked about, Sarah, was just a feature length Thank God, it wasn't a three-parter

[00:04:25] And I think you only get this three-parter if you go into Taylor's background And Taylor's background is crazy It is just a rollercoaster But Netflix chose to focus on Wade Griffin and the murders of Regan and Braxland So I understood that I didn't feel that there was anything that the documentary left out to like mislead us Or anything like that

[00:04:55] I found it I understood the cuts that they made And it didn't change my mind on the documentary How about you? Yeah, look, I agree I listened to Everything's Scary, three parts And some from September 2024 And they have a really interesting setup I haven't listened to anything else of theirs And now it's going to be in my rotation Because I really like listening to these two And I don't know whether it's always that she tells him the story and he reacts

[00:05:24] But I liked that format And so, yeah, I agree with you Like Jessica Dimmick had this bulk of a story And it's a huge story and lots of twists and turns And basically Taylor Morton Parker is an absolute monster There you go That's it in three words But as we said last week When we were talking about doing extra work and side-googing We weren't doing it because we were unsatisfied with the Netflix documentary

[00:05:49] We were doing it because it awakened in us enough interest to go looking for it So I think here's the perfect pairing Just listen to us if you don't want to watch the documentary Watch the documentary, listen to us And then listen to Everything Scary So it all is a melange that is really fascinating And none of it is disappointing So that's where we are with our side look I also listened to True Crime Society They have an episode called

[00:06:19] How to Fake a Pregnancy How a Fake Pregnancy Led to a Brutal Murder I thought it really was only just stuff that I was getting from the documentary So it doesn't mean that their episode was bad It's just I didn't really get anything more than I got from the documentary So I would recommend Everything Scary Everything Scary definitely did a better job of talking about her scams like pre-murder I was like oh she's a scammer Just jaw-dropping

[00:06:48] Absolutely jaw-dropping And that interesting mirroring that we see her do with her co-worker Where her co-worker had unfortunately had a stillborn baby and held her baby in her arms And Taylor said she had two and they had this bonding moment We see that again and again in her past she does this mirroring with people If someone's got cancer she's got cancer If someone has a brain tumour she has a brain tumour Someone has MS she has MS

[00:07:12] So we can see her modus operandi moving up to the murders of Regan and Braxlin And again even more so than the documentary we can see how at steps along the way it was preventable But it never happened because her job, her entire job was to scam people And she was very good at it until she wasn't Right, yeah and it also showed how brazen the lies were Like I still to this day I'm like so she was just

[00:07:41] She was just gonna lie and keep lying and had no She was just gonna keep lying Like she had no No exit strategy No exit strategy I mean our Queen Mama Connie Wade's mother said Well I was just waiting for her to fake her miscarriage And I thought Mama Connie you have a better exit strategy than Taylor did So yes that's Yeah We have another update on a previous episode Someone whose name I don't even want to say And I really don't want to think about it This is literally the last time I'm going to say her name and talk about her

[00:08:10] So Mackenzie Schirilla Last Tuesday the Ohio Supreme Court Declined a request to review her post-conviction appeal Because her lawyers had missed the deadline to file the post-conviction challenge By one day they'd failed to account for 2024 being a leap year I'm sorry to be delighted but I'm kind of delighted It's like just put it into Google How when is the certain amount of time up

[00:08:36] So that means that she has no chance of a retrial or release before 15 years at least And then of course her release will be at the discretion of the parole board So yeah she's there for 15 years and there's nothing more that she can do You're in the right place in my opinion Rightfully so Charge the parents I say Charge the parents I mean that might learn them And what are you You're a lawyer Why are you filing things on the absolute last day?

[00:09:06] You know what I'm saying? Very good question I would honestly be like Can I appeal on bad counsel? Because that is Yeah that's crazy Yeah the crash The Netflix documentary that we covered a few weeks ago Still is you know pretty top of mind Like we said Netflix has really just They've been I hate to say hidden it out of the park Because it's all gruesome murders and people are dead

[00:09:33] But they have really picked out some really good properties For this past month To put out into the world Because these The crash and maternal instinct Are literally everywhere right now Everybody was talking about them TikTok podcasts that aren't true crime podcasts Like a lot of my pop culture podcasts That I listen to have been talking about it

[00:10:02] I feel like that's how you know You really got something going Because it's true water cooler type stuff So I even saw Like a few tweets Or And stuff where it's like Every time I think Netflix can't drop a documentary About a horrible woman It gets worse And it had like pictures of like Kendra From high school catfish The lady from perfect neighbor Mackenzie Shurilla And then Taylor Morton Parker

[00:10:32] I'm like oh my god Netflix has just been collecting horrible Horrible women Like Pokemon As we said last week You know Women can do anything a man can do Yeah There's still the minority of perpetrators But for some reason We get more horrified by women Doing these things It's interesting And all of this stuff has made me think Like I think you're right The crash Certainly And maternal instinct Looks like it's going to as well It's really broken through to pop culture Broken out of its true crime bounds

[00:11:01] And into pop culture Everywhere on Twitter Everywhere on Instagram People are diving into Particularly Mackenzie Shurilla I don't want to hear her name anymore But the language that she and her mother speak That they think is a secret language People mocking that Because people know how to do it So that's one aspect This legal aspect is really interesting Because there was another I didn't say But there was actually another ruling Where they can't appeal this rule So the ruling that they were a day late Can't be appealed either So she's in

[00:11:30] But all of this is to say That I do think Why are we watching these things And you and I have come up with many theories over time And we ask our guests Why do people watch true crime And what do we get out of it And I'm still trying to answer the question But we're going to talk about some other properties That answer the question for me A little more clearly Than the crash and maternal instinct Which are just People died Okay But they're great stories Like they're very interesting stories Yeah You know what

[00:11:59] That's actually a good point And yeah It's a question we try to literally answer Every time we pick these mics up So it is very interesting to see Which documentaries break through Because literally All we do Is sit and watch true crime And there's stuff that we watch That people only hear about From us You know what I'm saying And that's kind of our zhuzh We like to tell you If you should listen to or watch it Or not Like you said But like I think it's crazy

[00:12:29] That we've been getting so many Back to back documentaries That are just breaking Breaking out And yeah The story Like you said The stories are good But it's just It's really interesting You know And I wonder if it's something like You know That summertime That downtime Type of thing I don't know But Or just Netflix Netflix is really in their bag With their production And it shouldn't be lost on us That these two properties Are not three episode properties They are feature length That could be why more people

[00:12:58] Are clicking on them Netflix Yeah Get it Netflix Yes I think that's a super good That's a really good point I mean we trudge through The three parts And the four parts And in your case The 47 parts Because it's our job And sometimes it's not a trudge Sometimes it's a skip You know we're about to talk about Some properties that are More than one episode That are really But I think in terms of The non-true crime watchers It's these 90 minutes 90 minutes and out That are really breaking through Yeah

[00:13:27] I will be with family members And we'll be like Scrolling through Netflix Or whatever We'll see a trailer The trailer looks good We go to click on it And it's a TV series And my family member Like Ugh A TV series Like Why can't it I thought it was a movie And then we'll move on And find something else Because it's just There's just some time You can't devote to this stuff And And you know True crime might be on that But enough about that Let's get into some Some properties That we were able to Just watch

[00:13:56] Again It's one of those things Where You throw them on You watch them You're listening to them I Me and Sarah Talk about it all the time Like Off mic We know what we're talking about Like We know What the property is But then We will just be Clicking on stuff To find recommendations Like you said And This was kind of All of these Are kind of like I was just clicking on them Like Oh what's this What's this What's this And Yeah They're like Recommendations But we just thought It would be fun To kind of

[00:14:26] Put them all here In this This is like One big recommendation Episode So Yeah These are four We want to talk about Four series That we thought of As our main topics But other things Were more pressing And we've only got So much time So You know But at the moment Honestly We could do Two episodes a week We're not going to Don't ask But we literally Could do two episodes A week With the amount of stuff That's out So yeah We considered all of these As main topics And they're all They're all Worthy of it But we just chose Other things Yeah

[00:14:56] And like we said Crash The crash came out Eternal instinct came out You gotta jump on them While they're hot You know And We want to be a part Of that conversation So That's why Some of this stuff Just gets Falls to the wayside And we get to cover them now So One of the first Properties that We watched This is kind of The property That I was watching That I was like Hey I kinda Like I don't know If I want to dedicate A whole episode To this But I thought It was really interesting Big girls want it Colon

[00:15:27] Escaping paradise Paradise Gotta have the colon Gotta have the colon Escaping paradise Spelled P-E-A-R-A-D-I-S-E Paradise Paradise Yeah I believe this This is on HBO Max Here in the States I Did not hear about This This docu-series I was literally On HBO Max While my daughter Was running around I was like What's this I had no idea What it was Going into it Clicked on it And was like

[00:15:56] Honestly enthralled From the beginning Basically What it's about Is Or the first Episode We're introduced To a New York Times Freelance Photojournalist I believe her name Was Emily And she talks about How on TikTok During 2020 Like All of this stuff Sarah Like 2020 We need to talk To like An anthropologist Or somebody Like The history books Surrounding 2020 The rise of TikTok

[00:16:26] And social media And how Like This This will be I think The third Or fourth cult We'll be talking about Or cultish behavior That we're going to be Talking about That arise During 2020 You know what I'm saying Like And that's why Two of these properties We're going to recommend Well I'm certainly Going to recommend Both of them We didn't do Because they were cults And we thought Oh we're so culted out So much cult You know All cults are alike In certain ways But they're all different Yeah

[00:16:56] It's still the same steps And we But yeah So We could write a book But go and see How to become a cult leader On Netflix That will tell you Everything you need Everything you need to know But Emily The photojournalist She hears about This place called Paradise Like pear The fruit Ha ha ha By this man Named Stefan Who's basically This rich man Who lives in Las Vegas In this big old house Who invites Big Big women To his house

[00:17:25] Um The women are Often Are referred to As SSBBW So Supersized Big beautiful women Stefan himself Says that His dream woman Is about Six feet Or taller And over Five hundred Plus pounds And It of course Starts off Like they said In 2020 He was on TikTok Talking Advertising about Like That's the type Of body types He likes That body positive Movement Started happening

[00:17:55] Around that time So a lot of women Were seeing this And they were like Yeah I want to go To a place Where He has a Indoor pool That they can get Naked in Um Really Interesting Docu-series To me Sarah Uh What were your Overall thoughts On Escaping Paradise I think it's really good It's going to be A recommend for me But here are some Of my thoughts I didn't tell you But when I first saw it When I first glanced At the title Title Uh

[00:18:24] Or I saw it Listed somewhere I literally thought It was a reality show Like Love Island But with For big girls Oh wow Yeah so I thought I could watch that Later I realized It was a crime documentary It is a crime documentary Because it is a crime Here Is the things That Really make it An interesting And thoughtful documentary Is because of the Body positivity movement Is because Body shaming Is a big no-no

[00:18:54] And it's a big taboo Now Is because Some people Are attracted to To larger bodies Is because Larger bodies are beautiful Is because How to get a bikini body Is get a bikini Put it on your body All of that stuff Is so positive And we have this man Who Appears to genuinely Adore these big Women Great How would it be To be adored After you've been rejected Or felt rejected Whether you have been Or not You've felt rejected All your life And then this man says You are the most Beautiful thing

[00:19:24] In the world All of this is like Incredible and wonderful And uplifting And And And And And And Like most Nobody joins a cult And then We get Into feederism Which is I mean You know Your kink is your kink We're not here to kink shame But people die Like literally People die From it And then we find out About the You can't say no That he has To these women Then we find out About the money That he's taking from them

[00:19:54] He says he doesn't Make money from them But they're on They're on OnlyFans And they're on other Sites That are specifically For larger bodies And Why shouldn't They make money I have no problem With that Sex workers work But he's getting money From it While saying That he doesn't He's Getting free labour From them Then we find out That his girlfriends Are always 22 Like He gets older The girlfriends Stay 22 So Then we find out

[00:20:24] That he's corresponding With 13 and 14 Year old girls And basically Saying to them Oh I can't wait Till you're 18 Whatever the age Of consent is I can't wait Till you're 18 And you can come And join me In Las Vegas So even though When they come It's not a Child sex offence He was This is grooming And then they're excited And they can't wait To see him He I want to say Parades them I don't know how to put it When you see them On the streets of Las Vegas When you see them All getting on public scales With a big sign above

[00:20:53] Saying what their weight is That everybody can look at And gawk at Are we normalising And saying All bodies Are valid bodies I want that to be What we're saying But there's something About his Fizzing delight When The public is Fetitization There it is Exactly I can't say it But that's Exactly That's what you're Fetishization Sorry I didn't mean Yeah I didn't mean to So Yeah I think this Yeah it's three parts

[00:21:22] But it takes you through Such a range Of different thoughts You have to contend With your own reaction To the visuals Of these Very large women Some of them up to 600 pounds I think was the Was the heaviest woman I'm size beautiful Myself So Is it Some self-loathing Coming from me That I Look at these women And have to Work on my own Initial reaction To them Is it my own It's definitely My own prejudice

[00:21:52] That his main girlfriend I go oh she's so beautiful I mean she was Absolutely beautiful In the face So what is that In me And so that Confrontation Alone Like leaving aside All the crimes That he's committing That I am confronted With my own thoughts I think is fantastic And uncomfortable Let alone Adding the layers on And yes people Do die Mari sorry I talk too much Yeah no no You're good You're good Yeah Sorry your Mari Talks too much But Yeah no

[00:22:26] No you're exactly right And the fact That I had Again never heard of this Because the internet Is huge huge huge Big big big In this case There are two Americas Yes There Yes And so I I was like Where is this going You know what I'm saying Yes Yes I thought the same Yeah I didn't know Where it was going At all I did think That the documentary Did ping pong A little bit Around too much

[00:22:56] For me Because it was like We didn't get anything About Stefan's background Until like the second episode And it was kind of Murky Which they love to do that But it was kind of Murky for me He himself Is participating In the documentary Just Lying through his teeth Denials And again It's that Okay He Spoiler alert He's not He's not Charged with any Type of crime So he's Just here Basically being Defensive

[00:23:25] And defending Himself And No in fact I mean he's the one That tries to sue people For saying things About him on the internet Exactly So It is a It is a Fascinating watch I too will recommend it I did get to watch it Twice I went back and watched The first episode Just because Like once I made my way Through the third The three episodes I went back to the first episode To see if there was If they There was foreshadowing That I just didn't know Because I didn't know How it's gonna end And there There pretty much was I was like Oh okay

[00:23:54] It doesn't seem very Crimey That first episode Doesn't seem very crimey Exactly Which I think is good That's a That's good You think Oh okay Body Positivity And this Photographer's gonna go And she is Size Beautiful herself So she is She gives us Her response To going to a place Where she Sees bodies like hers Around her The photographs that she takes And so on So that's a very interesting Way in Because it leads us Into Into Looking at our own minds

[00:24:24] And reactions Yeah These women are awesome Can I just say These women are Absolutely awesome Yeah Except for the ones That keep defending him Fuck you Well And that's And again And I did I don't know If it's such a big Spoiler or not But he's still Doing this Like it's still Going on Nobody's stopping it He still has a House full of women To this day Right now As we speak And he is still Getting older He's like 50-ish 60-ish Pushing

[00:24:52] And the girls There are 19, 22 Still So Yeah I definitely Want to move on To a property That we covered Here On the show As a main topic We gave it Good reviews I believe When we covered The first two episodes I believe Deadly Influencer Is back for Season 2 And Sarah May I say Season 2 Has just been So good

[00:25:22] As we speak There's about Four episodes Out Yeah And Season 2 It's like The four episodes Have been so Incredibly different In their approaches To crimes That are being Committed by The perpetrators In this And the presentation Of each one of them Have been so Different This is one of Those Like ID Anthology series It is On It should be Trashy It should be Trashy

[00:25:51] But it's not Exactly It's so Well done That All I come Away feeling Is just Huge amount Of empathy For the victims You know what I'm saying Like On half of the episodes You do not know Who the victim is Until something happens Yeah And It's It's so The storytelling Is great Each Episode Has been better Than the last I have just been Astounded By it Honestly

[00:26:21] They They really Have done a good job So just real quick I believe The first episode Is about An influencer A young TikTok Influencer His quick rise To fame And what happens When that Sudden fame You know Gets to you I believe And this is all Off the top Of my head The second Episode We didn't Take notes People It was so Nice Yes And this is What we like We like Just saying Stuff and Getting it Wrong

[00:26:53] Feel free To let us Know If we get Anything wrong But you know We don't And if you Watched it And what you Thought If maybe You did not Like some Of the episodes Or you do Like some Of the episodes Please let us Know But like I believe The second Episode If I remember Correctly Was about A woman Who was Doing like Running Doing like Credit Credit Cleanup Scamming So that was A pretty good One I didn't Even know That was a Thing I didn't Either I didn't Either I didn't

[00:27:22] Either The third One Was Heart Breaking I honestly Wanted to I cried I did too I didn't Know where It was Going I did Not know Where it Was going And when They revealed What happened I was Devastated I was Like Are you Serious Like I I was Like really Pissed I was Pissed I I honestly Wanted to Call Isaiah Because That That Episode Takes Place In Delaware It Takes Place In Wilmington

[00:27:52] Delaware And that's Where he's From And I Almost Wanted to Call him And that's His Age range All of That And I Wanted to Ask him Like I know He had to Have known This But yeah It was It may It may I certainly Thought of You Because I Thought how How is Anyone the Mother of a Black son In America Without Living Living In fear And I Just heard A statistic This morning On iHip News Shout out iHip News Get my My Every Wake up

[00:28:22] What the What Fucking Idiosity Is happening Today in America And I Find out From Jennifer Welsh And Pumps But I Heard This Morning She Was Talking With Her And He Said And He Said That One In Fifty Three Black Men Die By Gun Violence One In Fifty Three It It's Just So Sobering And Horrifying And Anyone Who Thinks That There's No Changes To Be Made And Anyone Thinks That There's No Reparations To Be Made

[00:28:52] And Anyone That Dismisses It As Black On Black Violence How Do You Think They Got There How Do You Think They Got There So This Was Very A Very Moving The Most Moving To Me I Think Loved And Fun And Creative And Because Of Some Code They Died It Was Horrible Exactly Yeah So Mary What Is It Like Being The Mother Of A Black A Young Black

[00:29:22] Boy Who Is Going To Be A Black Man Soon Yeah It's Sobering It's Scary It's One Of Those Things Where We're Already Like Okay We Have To Have A Talk With Him About How He's Perceived Outside Of The House You Know How He Can Behave And How It's Different From Some Of His Peers And Stuff Like That It's It's Scary It's Sobering And Even If You

[00:29:51] Aren't In A Quote Unquote Dangerous Environment Eminently Dangerous Environment Everything Is About It Because If I If I Think About It Constantly I Would Just Be A Ball Of Nerves And Stuff Like That So I Just Gotta Trust That How I'm Raising My Child Is Enough To Keep Him Out Of Trouble On His End And

[00:30:21] Unfortunately That's All We Can Do Have Him Keep Himself Out Of Trouble On His End And You Just Pray He Doesn't Run Into Somebody Who Is Who Is Looking For Trouble You Know I'm Saying Like That's All You Can Do And As A Parent That's Really All You Can Do With Any Of Your Children But It's Always An Extra Layer Thank You For That Yeah Yeah Yeah Yeah So Any Of You That Say All Mothers Worry About Their Children Shut Up Listen To What

[00:31:00] Side To A White Child Yeah Yeah To Me I Like That Episode The Most When I Say Liked It Was It Was Tragic It's Almost Told The Story As I Said You Think It's Going To Be Trashy But That Episode Was Almost Told Very Quietly And We Just Followed These Young Men As They Grew In Their Influencer Social Media Fame With That Pit Of The Stomach What's Going To Happen Are They Going To Commit A Violence Is Something

[00:31:30] Going To Happen To Them Is Something Going To Happen Between Them And I Won't Even Pretend To Be Able To Feel What You Feel But That Apprehension That I Felt I'm Thinking About The Extra Layer Yeah Exactly Exactly That The Fourth Episode Was Jarring To Say The Least It Covers A YouTuber Who Basically You See Him A Young White YouTuber Who You Just Kind Of See Him Descend

[00:32:00] Into Mental Health Issues And What Those Mental Health Issues End Up End Up Culminating Into A Act Of Violence And This Case Was Probably The Only Case That I'm Pretty Sure I Knew Either Through Like That Chapter Or A Like A Body Cam Thing

[00:32:30] I'm Pretty Sure I Know This One Yeah That One Sucked Like Not As In Like The The Episode But Just The Crime And All That It Just It Sucked I Was It It's All Upsetting And It's Upsetting In A way That You Should Feel Something When You're Watching True Crime You Should Not Be A Soulless Person Consuming Death You Know I'm Saying Like Yeah I Think The Thing With That One Is There Were Signs And Again Not

[00:33:00] Blaming Anybody But There Were Signs So You Can Hope That If Someone Watches This And Sees Those Signs In Someone That They Know That Perhaps It Can Be Prevented Because If Anyone Was Watching Those Videos And I Didn't Think This Just Because I Was Watching A True Crime Episode I Mean He Clearly Had Some Mental Health Issues And Needed Help And If That Could Have Been Seen It Could Have Been Prevented Maybe That's Why We Watched True Crime I Don't Know Exactly

[00:33:30] And For Him I Do Believe They Said That The The Videos Like The Most Telling Videos He Did Not Upload Until He Had He Was In The Middle Of The Act Thank You For Telling Me That Yeah Yeah Yeah Yeah I Think They Slid That In There I Think One Of The Experts Talked About It Like There Were There Were There Were He Did Release Videos

[00:34:00] That Were Very Red Flaggy Like We Talked About How One Of His Former Friends He Animated A Video Basically Of Like Her With Her Head Like Cut Off That Was Online That Was Public So There Were A Enough Public Videos That Should Before He Committed His Act He Did Upload More Videos That Literally Like Basically Manifestos I'm Gonna Do This I'm Gonna Do That This

[00:34:30] Is How I'm Gonna Do It Type Thing So Yeah Very It Sucked Yes But Deadly Influencer Season Two Did Not Suck Such A Good Season I It Was Something

[00:34:59] We Thought Of For A Main Topic And It Is A Cult Guys So We Just Thought It's Called Bring Me The Beauties Fascinating I Knew Nothing About Being A True Crime Expert And There Is This Really Interesting Spiritual Capitalism So It's A cult That Says We're Going To Be Spiritual We're Going To Find Our True Essence We're

[00:35:29] Aliens From Another Planet That Have Walked In Walkins Not Christopher Walken Somebody's Walked Into Your Body Someone From Arcturus Has Walked Into Your Body And There's This Whole Purity Bullshit America Get Rid Culture We're Trying To Find Our True Selves We Are Living In Truth We Are Living In This

[00:36:00] Celibate Spiritual World But We Go Out And Make Money And That's Okay Says The Cult Leader That's Okay Go Out Make The Money Just Bring It All Back To Me But Do Go Out Make The Money Be Part Of The World And It's Kind Of Beguiling If You Take It Just Like That I Can Have A Spiritual Life But I Don't Have To Go To A Cave On Top Of A Mountain Side I Can Actually Have A Spiritual Ascetic Life Within You Know A Capitalist Culture The Problem

[00:36:29] Is He Wasn't Having That Pure Life He Was Having His Facelifts He Was Counseling Young Men Who After They Left His Bedroom He Told His Followers Oh They're Having A Hard Time Give Them You're Paying For It Was Fascinating Because Everybody Was Eight And Nines And Tens

[00:36:59] In Terms Of Convention Beauty Yeah I Thought It Was Interesting Sarah Because Like Again They're All Tens It's Called The Model Cult More Specifically Because Hoyt Richards Who Apparently Was The Top Male Model Of The Late 80s And The 90s Was A Huge Part Of It And I Was Sitting Here Like Okay Financial Abuse A Cult About Financial Abuse I Was Like That's

[00:37:29] Not Bad Not Bad Not Bad He's Preaching Celibacy Look At That Okay And Then Needle Drop All Of A Sudden Because It All Happened Oh Wait No We Don't Need To Be Celibate Go And Have Sex Actually It's More Free To Be Free And Have All These Sexual I Was Like How I Have Sex With Within The Cult Don't Don't Have Sex Outside The Cult Have Sex Within The Cult It Was It's A

[00:38:11] Build Build A Black Utopia Great Don't Go Any First No No No No No No He's Gone And That's Why People Join Cults Because There's Something Very Beguiling About It But It's It's It's Strange So Much Press About It Books And Also And It Completely Went Past Me So If Anyone Knew Of It

[00:38:41] But I Don't Recommend It As A Cult Documentary To Be Quite Honest It Works So Much Better As Like A Like A Documentary About Like The Modeling Industry In General Like I Learned So Much About The Modeling Industry And Then When Fabio Popped Up I Was Like Fabio Everybody You

[00:39:11] Know What I Saying Because They Were Just Two Tens Hanging Out Together Bro-ing Out Yes And And And Learning About Hoyt Richards Learning About The The Modeling World In Itself I Thought That Was Really Cool Then When The One Woman The Female Model Came In And You Know She Shook Shit Up In The Cult And Then You Find Out That After Vanity Fair Basically Exposes It As A Cult She

[00:39:42] Is The One Blacklisted As A Model She Can't Find Work But Hoyt Richards His Career Takes Off And It's Just Like Of Course The Patriarchy Yeah Yeah I Thought It Was One Of The Interesting Little Side Story But The Smaller Stories She Comes Into The Cult We're Going To Call It A Cult Because It Is A Cult She Comes Into The

[00:40:37] AIDS Epidemic To I Would Have Like Honestly Just A Cultural Documentary About That Time Period I Guess Through The Lens Of I Don't Know I Found Those Stories More Fascinating Than The Main Cult Through Line Because By The Time They Get To Episode Three And All Of A Sudden The Cult Is Basically A Militia I Was Like Wait What And It Also Kind Of Felt Like They Were Holding Some Stuff Back About

[00:41:07] The Cult As Well So I Was Just Like Okay Yeah I Mean I Think You're Right The 80s I Lived Through It Myself I Was In My 20s In The 80s The Exact 80 To 90 Was My 20 To 30 And There's A Nostalgia Amongst Some Of The Youth For The 80s Oh I Wish I Lived In The 80s No Sit Down Johnny Let me Tell You A

[00:41:47] Of Literally The 40s And 50s I That Whole Thing Shall We Say And So That Still I Find That Still Affects Me In How I Think What I Think About Permanency What I Think About How We Live Why We Live And Also To Think About That There's A Whole Cohort Of Artists Who Aren't Here Who Should Be Elder Artists Now But Also A Whole

[00:42:17] Cohort Of Audiences And That's Where That Effect On The Arts Is Huge Because The Art Struggles And If You Don't Have An Audience It's Very Difficult To Make Money And To Continue With Art And When A Whole Cohort Of Your Audience Isn't Here Either People Who Should Be You Know Wealthy Older People Now Going To The Opera The Ballet Buying Art And Seeing Plays They're Not There So I And Just Before The Technology Of

[00:42:47] The 90s Starts To Take Over I Got My First Mobile Phone In 95 And I Wasn't The First To Get A Phone So Yeah I Think You're Right I Hadn't Thought About That But Bring Me The Beauties As A Cultural Document Is Much More Interesting Than As A Cult Document But I Veil It

[00:43:17] Is The Costuming That The Handmaid's Tale Copied For Their Visual Look Because I Don't Know If You Know This Murray But We As Women Even If We're Wearing Modest Dresses We Can Start

[00:43:46] Let's Not Talk About How The Leader Is Accused And Convicted Of Sexual Abuse Of Children Sentenced To Five Years Serves One And Then Goes Back To The Community And They Open Their Arms And Welcome Him Back Not To Tell You That 15 Men From The Community Have Been Charged And Convicted Of Sexual Assault And The Community Rolls On So There Is Still Calls From New Zealanders For The Government To Step In We Talk To People Who Have Left The Cult

[00:44:16] Who Are Very Interesting To Talk To We Also Talk To A Lot Of People Who Are Still In The Community I Call It Cult For The People Who Left I Call It For The Community For The People Who Stay In And They Are Very Passionate We Talk To Some Men We Talk To To A lot Of Women Who Say That They Are Fully Satisfied With The Life That They Live Which Is Only To Serve Men And To Raise Children They Have 6 7 13 Children That Is Now That Is Not Old Days That Is Now

[00:44:45] And So If You Want To Think About Power And If You Want To Think About Spirituality Because Part Of You Goes Yes This Woman In Front Of Me Is Telling Me That Her Life Is Satisfactory How Dare Not Being Protected And There Is A Very Intriced Where One Of The Men Who Is Still In The Community

[00:45:15] Talks About We Knew About Various Things Happening And This Is How We Tried Within The Community To Solve It And Resolve It And We Were Wrong Astonishing Someone From Within The Community Talking About How They Had Made Errors In Their Attempt To Deal With The Sexual Abuse And It's Not Just Sexual Abuse It's Financial Abuse The Children And The People Are Working The Community Makes Money They Don't Have Any Money

[00:45:44] And If They Do Go Outside The Community To Work There Was A Bit Of Vision Of Them Coming With Their Pay And Paying Over The Cash So It's Not An Easy Watch It's A Very Uneasy Watch I Think There's Something About Them Being New Zealanders So No One's Shouting No One's Raising Their Voice It's All Very Mild We Have Vision Of A Young Girl Young Teenage Girl Who Left The Community Coming Back She's Met At The Gate By Her Father Her Father Drives

[00:46:14] Down To The Gate To Prevent Her From Coming In And In The End She Says I Still Love You Dad And He Says I Love You To The Extent That I Am Required To But Because Of Your Soul And No Further It's So Chilling What One Of Her Brothers Is Also An Escapee And He Said Well We Weren't Asked If We Wanted To See

[00:46:44] Her So There Is This Incredible Film That We Get Some Of It Is News Filming Camera Crews Are Always Trying To Get In They Are Always Preventing Camera Filming Over The Years That They Have It's Really Fascinating And I'd Love Someone Else Who's Watched It Devotion Obedience Or Betrayal To Talk To Me About It Because There's Something

[00:47:14] Very Different About It Very Sinister About It While Also You're Going Well Yes It's Communal And It's Spiritual And They're All Happy And These Matching Outfits The Men Not So Of Course You Don't Need To Watch It If You're Tired Of Pulse You Don't Need To Watch I'm Thinking Mari You Don't Need To Watch It That Is Absolutely

[00:47:45] It's Upsetting And Fascinating And Disturbing And I'm Confused On If If This Is A Series Or If It Was A One Off Because I It's A bit Of An Anniversary For Her At The Moment

[00:48:15] I Think Anniversary Of Her Something I'll Look It Up Because I Thought It When You Go To Celebrity Crime Scene Marilyn Monroe Is Not In The Title It's The Title Of The Episode Or It Was Up Until Probably Recently So I Was

[00:48:44] Like Oh Cool This Is Going To Be Like A Anthology Or Something Like That But I Don't Think It Is I Don't Know If It Was Well Received Or Whatever But I Will Say It Just Aired Last Week So And I'm Looking On IMDB Right Now Just To See If There's Any Words On If There's Going To Be More Episodes But I Think It's Marked As A TV Special So Yeah It's 100 Years

[00:49:14] She'd Be 100 June The 1st 1926 She Was Born I You Said You Were Going To Watch It And I Thought Okay You Watch It And Tell Me About It Then I Thought Look I'll Have A Look At It Because Paul Holes Is It And We Love Paul Holes Yeah I Mean This Is This Is True Crime Royalty I Lasted About Seven Minutes Oh Really Okay Yeah So So It's

[00:49:48] Paul A Coroner If I Believe If I Remember Correctly And Then There's Like An Investigative Reporter And They Basically Reconstruct The Crime Scene Of Marilyn Monroe Death And They Go Through It Evidence By Evidence And At The End Of

[00:50:19] To Be Unfortunately They Did Do A They Did A I Generated Crime Scene They Had Like It Was They Were On A Set And So The Physical Objects Like They Had A Marilyn Dummy In The Bed All The Stuff Recreated For The Crime Scene And The Rest Of It Was AI I I I Could Just Say Computer Generated Like I Don't Know It Was Kind Of Walking Okay Like The AI Of The Crime Scene Was Fine Because

[00:50:49] They Do That All The Time Crime Scene Recreation The What Was The Problem Was I Don't Know If You Got This Far Sarah But They Did The Recreations Were Also AI Like The Reenactment Sorry The Reenactment I Didn't Get As Oh No I Did Get The Reenactments Because They Were Talking About The Mystery Of The Broken Window And Then They Said And So And So I Broke The Window And I Thought No Please That Was The One They Had Some Of The Reenactments Like The Close Up Of

[00:51:37] Paul Paul Paul Paul Did A Great Job All The Three Of Them Did Do A Great Job And They Were Walking Through The Timeline It Was Great Honestly It Was Like They Cracked Open The Evidence Locker And They Just Put It On The TV And Visualize It They Talked About All The Bottles Of Pills That Were Lying Around They Talked About Her Blood Test Like Her Toxicity Test They Talked About The Levidity On The Body They Talked About All These Great Things And I Was Like This Is Amazing And

[00:52:07] Then They Sat Up Here And Looked Me Straight In My Face And Said It Was A Murder I Said If Y'all Don't Get Out Of Here Like I Don't Understand Why People Don't Understand That Like More Than Like It Was An Accidental Overdose And Yes It Took People Four To Five Hours To To Call It In Because They Were Cleaning The Crime Scene I I Completely Think That The Crime Scene Was Staged I Do Not Think She

[00:52:40] Need To Watch It Yeah It It It It Kind Of Because Again I Really Did I Liked Please Just Tell Me The Facts And That All It Was Like It Really Was For The First Half Of It It Was Just Presenting The Facts And Then Once They Got Into All The Speculation They Were Like Oh Another Thing Was RFK Was Seen Being Pulled Over By So And So At 3 A.M. And They Put Him On A Helicopter To Make Sure He Was In San

[00:53:10] Francisco It Got Into The Speculation It Got Into Like Oh She She Had A Headache But Her Housekeeper Saw Her Go To Bed Around 10 30 But Then Came And Check On Her At 3 A.M. Unresponsive But What Happened In The Hour Hour And A.M. Between When They Found Her Unresponsive And Called Authorities Oh One Doctor Came Then Another Doctor Came

[00:53:40] Then There Was Speculation Did They Take Her To The Hospital She Was Pronounced Dead At The Hospital And They Came Back And Staged The Body It Was So Weird Then I Was Like Okay So We Went Through Hardcore Facts And Then We Went To Speculation And Then They Were Trying To Say We Speculate That She Was Murdered And I'm Like How Do You Come Up

[00:54:19] That That What Led Me To Start To Watch It Was The Panel They Got Their Bonafides And They Are The Real Deal It Just The Topic Didn't Particularly Interest Me And I Started Watching It And As Soon As

[00:54:49] Spoke To The Investigator

[00:55:17] for us yeah i'm glad i could so we had a wonderful message from listener annabelle listener friend of the show and my co-host over on babes in the conclave hungary season three traders she wanted to tell us about a couple of podcasts she's been listening hi divas annabelle here i have just been on a little bit of a true crime podcast spree from the observer tortoise media i'm not a true

[00:55:44] crime girly um don't usually love it i'm very cincy to violence but i was really engrossed by these i just finished foundling and sweet bobby while i enjoyed them and found them gross uh engrossing i did i don't know if i felt super comfortable with the ethics of it particularly with foundling i felt

[00:56:06] like jess wasn't always glad that she had got a journalist involved i feel like it really just the results really upset her in so many ways i i totally believe that she had a right to find out who her family is and so all the like negative consequences to the other people whose lives kind of were rocked by finding out her um who her parents were like you know that doesn't negate her

[00:56:36] right to find that out but i just wonder if having a journalist involved made it so much worse and whether like anybody ended up being glad that happened except for the journalist i don't know i didn't sit quite right with me all of the time sweet bobby oh my god simran go to hell thanks annabelle

[00:57:02] for that recommendation question but another podcast recommendation we had from listener naima was nobody should believe me the episode on take care of maya and i did listen to that thanks i'm absolutely fascinating so i'm gonna recommend so i will say that one of our long-time listeners favorite bloof of mine he did dm me with a recommendation to watch the times of harvey milk

[00:57:32] oh he says yes exactly he says it's more likely that you're familiar with the 2009 biopic starring sean penn which was good but not as good as the documentary in my opinion i am familiar with that i did watch that the documentary won the 1984 academy award for best documentary feature it is about the assassination of san francisco supervisor harvey

[00:57:57] milk the first openly gay man to hold public office in california and san francisco mayor george misconne don't let the year turn you off to the film it has aged well and it's truly a story that is full of unexpected twists and turns if you're not familiar with the assassinations i recommend going in blind and watching the movie he goes on to say it's an enthralling story that i suspect anyone would enjoy even if they are not true crime fanatic he suggests maybe watch it with a husband

[00:58:25] or a friend let me know what you think well thank you for that i'm from very familiar with the with the case let's say or the event so but i don't believe i've seen the documentary but that's a long time ago i might have watched it and forgotten but uh you know i've aged quite well as well that's literally what i told him i said i watched the movie i thought the movie was astounding i feel like i remember watching the movie and then looking into the case and i was like i was like i might have

[00:58:55] watched the documentary but i wasn't sure i did try to watch it before we got on here i got maybe like 30 or so minutes in before i had to run and go and do something and just never came back to it but uh he says it is out on it is on hbo max now so i hope i hope everybody had a happy pride and i managed to bully one of our very very good and loyal listeners heather into sending us

[00:59:23] she sends us uh messages on on emails like it's saying send us a speak pipe but she said no i can't here she is since sarah is very persistent about sending a speak pipe and not just an email i am attempting this recommendation with my own voice hi i am heather and i am from michigan i just finished

[00:59:47] watching andre is an idiot on netflix and it was a very well made did what it was meant to do beautiful tragedy and not in your typical abuser kills woman thing um i very much loved it and i think

[01:00:10] everybody should definitely watch it i very much loved the pod and i'm super grateful that i found you i loved that you did a collab with alan marie marsh and i hope you do another one and again sarah you are welcome love you yay heather thank you well done well done amazing but we do love to speak oh that's a great recommendation of course everything that

[01:00:39] we've talked about and all these recommendations will be in the show notes final recommendation was the podcast a little bit culty and the reason that that was recommended to us it's run by two escapees from nexium and the reason that was recommended was there's an episode on dr christine marie from believe me false prophet which we liked very much and i did listen to that and it's very good and we're running a bit long so our true crime updates will go to the next episode but i would just like

[01:01:07] to mark that rex howerman the gilgo beach serial killer was sentenced this month to three consecutive life sentences without the possibility of parole plus 25 years to life for four additional murderers all to run consecutively so you're in jail for 100 years rex that's where you belong good good at crime scene we are eager to hear your feedback and suggestions for future episodes you can subscribe

[01:01:32] by going to crime scene pod.com or search crime scene wherever you get your podcasts you can follow crime scene everywhere at crime scene pod or email us at crime scene pod at gmail.com you can support us at buymeacoffee.com crime scene pod swing us a couple of bucks or join our monthly membership members receive episodes early and ad free as well as other exclusive bonus content including an invitation to watch

[01:01:58] us record an episode live once a month before it gets edited for politeness you can also support us by buying our merch just like heather did she's the best yes we have crime scene tumblers available at my shop you can go to mariecraftstomuch at bigcartel.com and while you're there look at my other book theme tumblers if you don't find your favorite book let me know i'll make something just for you

[01:02:27] link to the stories in the show notes and you can also support us for free i like that price tag very much rate and review crime scene so that others can find us five stars only five stars whatever you got going on and where can the people find you sarah the people can find me everywhere on the internet that is good to be at sarah carradine over on babes in the conclave i'm covering the traders hungary season street with annabelle fiddler who you heard from earlier giving her recommend what about

[01:02:53] you mari where can you be well i'm very busy over on recap kickback me and chapelle are covering both the vampire list stat and house of the dragon season three we are having such a good time covering both of those shows if you're not watching the vampire list that i do not know what you are doing with your life and if you're not watching house of the dragon again hop on it uh you can go to recap kickback.com

[01:03:19] in order to subscribe for wherever you get your podcasts or go to youtube.com slash at recap kickback in order to see our faces um as we talk about said properties so yeah it's a lot of fun over on recap kickback we're having a great time you can also follow me on blue sky at mari talks too much that's like the number two where i am mostly talking about love island over there next time on crime scene

[01:03:44] we're taking the week off but you don't have to as a 250th birthday treat we are bringing one of our most popular member only bonus episodes out from behind the paywall and letting you have a listen it's our live coverage of the tiktok killer with matt scott and a lively member chat oh it's a great episode you are so welcome happy birthday to you you got to do it like marilyn

[01:04:13] happy birthday to you happy birthday all right no good uh the week after we will bring you a new episode where we cover worst neighbor ever with jason reed he can't escape that's going to be our supporters watch live episode for the month of july if you're a member you will automatically get the link to watch us record live with all the flubs sidetracks and inappropriate laughter that we cleverly edit out of the published

[01:04:41] audio if you want to see us record the episode be a member or supporter and you have to be there on thursday july the 9th at 9 p.m eastern we'll remind you on social media closer to the time so make sure you are following us and consider becoming a supporter at any level to watch us live thanks to wolf of america for the theme music both of us for watching an extreme amount

[01:05:05] of documentaries and getting a bit hysterical yes until next time hey hey you you you