Crime Seen | Episode 119: American Murder: Laci Peterson

[00:00:24] Hello everyone, I'm Sarah Carradine, podcasting from Aura Sydney.

[00:00:29] I'm Mari Forth, and this is Crime Seen, the true crime review podcast where we get to the heart of our true crime stories at all.

[00:00:37] You can get this show along with all the other fantastic reality TV content by subscribing to RobHazwebSight.com slash subscribe. We know reality TV.

[00:00:48] We would love it if you were subscribed to our feed as well. Please go to RobHazwebSight.com slash crime feed. We know true crime.

[00:00:57] Last week we watched Taken Together, who killed Lyric and Elizabeth with Mary Payne Gilbert from Pink Shade podcast.

[00:01:05] Yeah, it was interesting. She brought up a previous property that we had discussed and we had a brief discussion about it with her.

[00:01:12] She'd watched Tell them you love me and was very interested in discussing it with us because she was in as much turmoil about it as I think we were. Mari, you got a message from a listener about that property.

[00:01:24] Yes, we were actually this is my fault. It's like months and months in the making an amazing listener named Lauren reached out to me. It's because she reached out to me over Instagram and I barely am I right.

[00:01:39] I like I can't be Lauren. Yes, thank you.

[00:01:44] It's so much so that when I went back to look for it, I was on Twitter like where is it?

[00:01:49] Like it took me forever to realize oh yeah, she didn't DM me on Instagram. That's how like chronically on Twitter I am.

[00:01:56] But she just starts out by saying that I she gave us she talked a little bit more in depth about facilitated communication from telling me love me. And I asked her to do a speak pipe.

[00:02:09] It's okay, she didn't want to do a speak pipe so I'm not everybody wants to have been voices recorded for him.

[00:02:15] It's not sweet. In perpetuity right so she said, my name is Lauren. I am a speech pathologist that has been in practice for 20 years.

[00:02:27] The facilitated communication is a discredited practice. Oh, it has been.

[00:02:31] I think we we said that on the pod.

[00:02:35] It has been around for many years and has not been able to be proven the scientific peer reviewed research studies.

[00:02:41] It is harmful and you will not find any speech with theologist using it.

[00:02:46] However, that is not to say that nonverbal people with disabilities cannot communicate. They can in many cases but not all.

[00:02:54] The documentary did not do a good job at presenting the alternative to facilitated communication, which is called augmentative and alternative communication or AAC.

[00:03:05] The difference in FC and AAC is that with AAC the disabled person is communicating independently. Yes, yes, she goes on to listen some resources for us to check out more of Lauren you did a great job. I learned a lot in this message.

[00:03:26] I hope I accurately represent it. She did a great job of really breaking down why she found that documentary to be very off putting to say the lead.

[00:03:40] I mean, we found the subject matter off putting. I think we concluded that we thought the documentary was well made.

[00:03:48] We were glad it existed but then to hear from people who are experts in fields that we know nothing about is really interesting and I think yes, given what you've told us Lauren, I think that's a deficiency perhaps if I may say so in the documentary that it didn't.

[00:04:05] It didn't give that other side of facilitated communication that it hasn't been discredited. They certainly discredited her.

[00:04:14] But yes, I brought a conversation.

[00:04:18] They can't document just can't cover absolutely everything.

[00:04:21] Yes, and Lauren just wants to say based on what she saw in the documentary, she would say that no he did not request to be called demand and no he couldn't and didn't consent to what happened to him.

[00:04:32] People with disabilities are incredibly vulnerable to exploitation because they cannot communicate about what has happened to them and we saw that play out on screen.

[00:04:42] So thank you so much Lauren, I'm so sorry for ever not only do I have a bad memory but I could not find.

[00:04:51] And I think we'd probably both like to in that case the apologize to the family for calling him demand.

[00:04:57] Well, I think the family said that.

[00:05:00] I mean, I don't think she made it up because I think the family said that he does go by demand. That was like a child heard nickname and that's and because that's one thing that she pointed to like how could I have known his childhood nickname if he didn't tell it to me.

[00:05:17] And I think just the family told you exactly.

[00:05:21] Yeah, that's true.

[00:05:23] I think it's like, I can say, oh, oh, they couldn't possibly have known this yes you told them.

[00:05:28] Really, exactly.

[00:05:31] So yes. So yeah, thank you. Thank you, Lauren. Thank you so much and thank you to anybody who are right to me.

[00:05:38] So, Mary in episode one or two we covered the jinx part two episode one with co-caste investigator Sarah Kallin.

[00:05:46] And let's look at the story message.

[00:05:48] Just to say that he has finished watching the jinx part two and asked us to give our thoughts on the rest of the season which I think we said we were going to do at the time.

[00:05:58] So here listeners keeping us on the straight and narrow.

[00:06:02] Did you finish first of all?

[00:06:04] Did you finish the jinx part two and what were your thoughts on it?

[00:06:09] So the funny thing is I did finish the jinx part two, but I forgot that I finished the jinx part two.

[00:06:14] Okay.

[00:06:16] Yeah, like I put it on. I was watching it.

[00:06:19] I think I fell asleep a little bit. We'll back up in episode two.

[00:06:24] Watched it and then like, oh he died in jail or something like that right? Like this doesn't make it.

[00:06:31] I, yeah, I outside of the first episode, the first two episodes that we talked about where you know is the continuation of the first part of the jinx and him being on the jinx part two.

[00:06:44] And then I got a little bit of the time I was going to do that.

[00:06:44] After that it's just, it's just straight like courtroom stuff plus going back and forth between the multiple cases like oh now do we got him on this?

[00:06:53] Do we get on this and you know it's just kind of like.

[00:06:58] When you know the outcome, we like we knew he had packed you know we knew he passed away.

[00:07:03] Like going into this if you're keeping up with any true car news and I think we even announced it on this podcast maybe when it had.

[00:07:10] I thought yeah, exactly. So like so like I mean, I think the first few episodes are stronger than the latter episode.

[00:07:22] I don't know if the jinx part two needed six more episodes.

[00:07:26] I don't know what do you think there? Well, I think I'm probably it sounds like I'm a little higher on it than you are.

[00:07:32] I think six was indulgent, not that any of it dragged and there was certainly enough material for the six or Jerarchy made enough material for the six.

[00:07:46] I found the last episode the most compelling that was stuff I wasn't aware of.

[00:07:52] So I think that I I'm going to say I enjoyed watching it. I was interested. I didn't to screen it at all.

[00:08:01] But at the end I wondered did it need to exist. I think it needed to exist for Jerarchy and I think it needed to exist for some of the people in the documentary particularly Kathy does family.

[00:08:17] But yeah, I was I was very annotated, a daughter about it or a sea saw as we call it here.

[00:08:24] That it was well made that it was interesting, but by the same token I'm thinking did we need it at all.

[00:08:32] Corey said they found it fascinating great good. It's I like that we all have different different opinions.

[00:08:41] So and again, like I kind of said in the in the our first cover to the like the jinx.

[00:08:48] I think it was because I didn't watch it. I said it because I didn't watch it when everybody was watching it. It did not have a major impact on my life like it has on true had like it had on true crime and gender in general, you know.

[00:09:03] So like I'm wondering because that nostalgia because that because I, by that time I was cemented as a true crime fan you know saying like I was already.

[00:09:13] I was already a true crime fan so it didn't like push me over doing anything for me that I had already been doing so because of that to me it's just kind of you know the second part is just like okay sure more more of this and now now that you said the last episode was compelling I might have to go back and rewatch it because I I'm like I went to my thing and I was like yeah, like it's it said I watched all of this but nothing sticking nothing to me.

[00:09:42] I don't know. I don't know. I mean, I think for me the the piece of information that I didn't have that I found really interesting was that because he was convicted.

[00:09:54] But he hadn't been sentenced before he died that that might and almost certainly will vacate the conviction which is real a peculiar full stop on this very, very long and peculiar case and life that he had so.

[00:10:16] Kind of wins in the end by dying and and potentially having the conviction vacated which is like.

[00:10:25] Extra my boy here.

[00:10:29] Sarah what do we watch this week? This week we watched American murder, Lacey Peterson on Netflix. It was directed by Skyborg men here on the scene we have a bit of a history with skyball and we watched the truth about Jim with owners are here.

[00:10:46] That would serody, bunting girl in the picture with the Tonya stocks and we and I guess generally give these properties either three or three point five magnifying glasses except for your favorite grandfather story that you've been trying to remember the name up for about a month.

[00:11:01] True about Jim.

[00:11:04] Yeah, which we are we very reluctantly go to point five to because we are we are fans of of sky but but sometimes she misses I was surprised looking back at the ratings I thought we had gone higher with her.

[00:11:20] Ray in skyboy men skyboy men didn't do the submarine one. No that's Aaron Lee car.

[00:11:28] The underwater okay under her. That was so good. Okay, I don't know why I thought she did. I mean are we the sky boardman review podcast if it feels like it man she's been so prolific just within the last.

[00:11:48] To literally we've the only had this I guess for about three years so like we're not allowed to I know and we didn't and during our time we didn't cover dead asleep abducted and plant sight and sins of our mother which have all been during our time reviewing so yeah and I've seen a bit in place I've seen since of our mother as well.

[00:12:11] We for reasons are more reasons we did not cover dead asleep so yeah like prolific prolific to say the least here yes.

[00:12:24] So let's get to the crime of the documentary we are talking about today American murder Lacey Peterson.

[00:12:29] Lacey Peterson was eight months pregnant when she disappeared on Christmas Eve in 2002.

[00:12:36] In April the following year her remains were found on the shore of San Francisco Bay along with those of her fetus whom the couple had named Connor.

[00:12:44] Lacey's husband Scott was arrested and charged with two felony counts of murder with the premeditation he played not guilty.

[00:12:54] The trial began in June of 2004 and in November he was convicted and sentenced to death by lethal injection.

[00:13:02] In 2020 the legal system grinds slow.

[00:13:08] The Supreme Court of California upheld Scott's conviction but overturned his death sentence and in 2021 he was resettinced to life without parole and he left death row in 2022 so these things take time.

[00:13:21] In January of this year the LA innocence project accepted Scott's case saying that it had new evidence and that it supported his innocence.

[00:13:32] Mary first of all what was your previous knowledge of Lacey Peterson case.

[00:13:37] Yes I mean Lacey Peterson everybody heard of it this case went national immediately I remember even as a young teenager seeing her face plastered everywhere.

[00:13:49] It's such a case that almost like a cornerstone in time you know how we have those cases that are like a cornerstone in time like you can fund these and stuff like this was that case that represented like all of those women murdered by their husbands type cases you know this is the case you think about this is the stereotypical the husband did it.

[00:14:12] And like it's one of the reasons why I wasn't rushing to cover this this vacuum series because I know almost too much about the case you know saying like.

[00:14:27] I didn't feel like there was much new information I guess one of the things I could say that was good that took away from it was maybe a less massagenistic lens looking back at 20 years later I loved how they kept emphasizing that and profile wasn't a mistress.

[00:14:46] Yes, I thought that was pretty good and we can talk more about that but you know other than that it's it's pretty straightforward we talk about it here like.

[00:14:59] If it's if it it I'm more than likely going to look like it if it's a case I don't know if it's a case that I do know I want it told in a different way I want something new brought to the table and I'm just not necessarily sure that that's what happened here.

[00:15:15] What do you know over all that yes I knew this case I thought fairly well I like the way it was made step by step detail by detail but I knew everything even some details I couldn't have brought to mind.

[00:15:30] You know off the top of my head once it came up in the documentaries oh yes yes I remember that yes yes I remember that so I found myself thinking why are we doing this now and who is it for.

[00:15:43] It's 20 years later okay it's not exactly 20 years later so it's like map with sort of missed that anniversary type refresh of a case.

[00:15:53] Is there new stuff not as far as this documentary tells us although the innocence project taking up his case which I mentioned is not mentioned in this documentary that's you.

[00:16:05] Right I think that's someone yeah someone who doesn't know the case this is perfect.

[00:16:11] Absolutely perfect procedural detail I thought the timeline was really well done talking hands were all you know very good wonderful moments like the report is saying oh you know Scott finally let us enter his home told us to take his shoes off and then I noticed that Scott was wearing shoes in the interview so there's a moment like that but.

[00:16:37] I'm going to find it hard to market down because it's very well made but my question is what who's it for who do you think it's for Mary.

[00:16:49] Like he said it but it's what's in the it's hard to be for people who don't know the case because I mean this case was huge here I mean maybe it's for the people who are just read our justice covering true crime people you're your serial people your my favorite murder people.

[00:17:11] You're the jinx people you know the boom of true crime in 2015 you know I think we referenced it multiple times on across the platform.

[00:17:20] You know maybe it's for that audience maybe there is a younger audience that's not really sure about the Lacey Peterson case maybe there's that audience that is just like oh yeah there's Lacey Peterson her husband just killed it right like.

[00:17:33] Maybe it's for that person but for people like us who kind of like lived through it as it was happening and like I didn't like follow the case religiously but like you couldn't where I was you could not.

[00:17:49] Not follow it was just everywhere he had a family it was everywhere it happened on Christmas she was beautiful she was pregnant her family.

[00:18:00] I remember her just what seeing her family being begging for her her return and then I remember when they were covered their bodies and and the terror of hearing that you know.

[00:18:12] You know Connor Connor and her were separated you know it's it's so heartbreaking it really is heartbreaking yes but I said it you know is that enough.

[00:18:25] I mean I'm I'm you know I have a cold dad heart but I'm open to being broken because of people's tragedies but it's it's a case that we know one thing that was interesting and was briefly referenced and then never gone back to and this is perhaps what we could have liked is more where does this case I mean for people like us where what viewers like us where does this case sit in the canon of.

[00:18:54] The let's I don't want to call it this because it's a real person but you're the tent pole true crime cases and oh Jason was referenced yeah.

[00:19:04] But no more than that so I thought well what are the equivalencies because he was acquitted his case was televised these are differences so what did you draw from that brief and unexplained comparison to Jason's.

[00:19:24] Yeah that you're right like I mean the only comparison to me that really sticks it's just how televised it was.

[00:19:32] I still yeah I mean O.J. of course then it's because O.J. is just that's a hard comparison to me because you have celebrity you have race in the you know in America.

[00:19:47] Yeah it's a man who killed his wife but like that's kind of two different things and like I said it's it's okay it's a man who kills wife but also it's the press I think that's I think that's that's the only thing you can really compare it to I think of.

[00:20:01] The other Peterson guy I think happened around the same time my.

[00:20:07] Yes it is that that's not the staircase one and yeah yeah okay yeah so I like did that happen around did that really happen around the same time like.

[00:20:19] I feel like that to me for some reason these two cases have been linked in my mind together because of the name probably the last name to be quite honest yeah.

[00:20:31] Yeah so Kathleen Peterson Michael Peterson's wife died in 2001 so just the previous year.

[00:20:41] Yeah that makes sense and I also remember because it felt like.

[00:20:47] You it felt like it was like a spate of husband's killing their wives type media and I'm wondering if do you remember my god I'm really trying to remember.

[00:20:59] It was right after it was like right around after Lacey it was the guy with the ball head I remember his head he ball head he is white he is his wife like disappeared come to find out he murdered her as well.

[00:21:14] I'm so mad that I'm blinking on his knee right now.

[00:21:20] But I think what you say media that's what that's another path that could have been taken is.

[00:21:26] The media as it grabs and and sucks on these cases and before I think of all the people that we see in this documentary and before I was very compelling she was compelling at the time.

[00:21:42] And she was not a mistress as you say she was called it the baby faced blonde mistress this is not who she was she was a single mother who was introduced to charming man who loved bomb her as we learn he had loved bomb Lacey.

[00:22:00] We said he had lost his wife first of all he said he wasn't married then he said he had lost his wife before she was lost.

[00:22:07] So I think she got I'm retelling the story like we don't all know it I think she for her alone I would say it's almost worth watching the documentary.

[00:22:18] And for the three friends of Lacey called up on the side for I love them I thought if you got missing these are the girls you want in your corner.

[00:22:26] Exactly you read my mind I think hearing from Amber Fry that did make me rethink my thought process about her because I do think I got caught up in the media narrative of she's acute mistress and blah blah blah.

[00:22:42] And because of that narrative I remember when she came out against him I was like that's weird for some I'm interested to do that you know saying but it really goes to show you that she she wasn't for it you don't understand she thought this man was I mean he liked her to she's a victim here as well you know so like I.

[00:23:01] I was glad that we got to hear her side I truly was it felt like she got to tell her side of the story like it really did it it it felt really really honest and then her friends oh my god Lacey's three friends.

[00:23:16] Crota for that self I mean they were like the bread and butter this documentary they're a bit of her mind absolutely agree and her mother yeah.

[00:23:27] There was something one thing that they said which really struck me Mary was we don't let each other get away with anything basically not only checking on each other but they require real honesty from each other really tell us what's going on in your life and I think that's one of the things I do draw from this documentary.

[00:23:46] Is that what was going on behind that closed door Scott Peterson says no one knows our relationship except us and it's like yes and one of the us is dead.

[00:23:57] Was there something she could have said to her friends right yeah exactly it really made me stop in think about like my relationship with my friend as well because.

[00:24:07] I want to get to like a certain age you just start any irreversentability you start to kind of like drift away but not meaning to so it definitely made me send a couple.

[00:24:17] Text messages like I hope you guys are all great.

[00:24:23] So joining us is the only man you call if you want to talk about millionaire dog sex cults yes we're supposed to him about gunfish millions we all gave it a four it's true crime author and podcast a Kevin Flynn.

[00:24:38] Welcome back to the same Kevin.

[00:24:41] Hey guys thanks so much for having me so Kevin we're so happy to have you here you wanted to talk about Lacey Peterson so it's your chance first of all what was your knowledge of the case were you aware of it I asked suddenly prior to skyborg man's documentary.

[00:24:59] Yeah I think I had sort of a well probably a little more than a passing knowledge of it there was a documentary that we covered on crime writers on I mean years ago I'm trying to think if it was like I think it might have been like an A and E.

[00:25:13] I mean basically a double documentary I just remember being better quality than one would expect from basic cable.

[00:25:24] But it gave a good overview and it also kind of gave you know some of the.

[00:25:29] You know some of the arguments about Peterson's innocence but you know in generally I got I got the I got the broad strokes because I also watch gone girl gone or gone baby gone right gone girl gone girl gone girl that's the one.

[00:25:44] Gone girl yeah all those afflexer like making movies that like run to you.

[00:25:49] Yeah so you know so it's actually kind of become kind of like a trope.

[00:25:55] Yes but yeah I mean I think it's it's a very famous case obviously yeah you just said you saw like a cable TV documentary of it I'm currently looking at the list of cable TV and it is long I'm not even going to try and guess which one because.

[00:26:14] There are bullet points upon bullet points upon bullet points of to our mini documentaries like murder made me do it how it really happened the murder of Lacey Peters and Scott Peterson case in question one last chance like just over done or saturated well there was a TV movie in the US that came out.

[00:26:36] But before the trial and it was Dean Kane who maybe no super man right I remember this one I remember this one yes today you know is like super Trumpy.

[00:26:49] Dean Kane yes he played Scott Peterson and he said that when he was you know for his motivation he played it as if Scott Peterson were innocent.

[00:26:59] At least that was his mindset because well I mean it hadn't gone to trial yet and that's sort of like that was like how he decided how the you know he was going to go method and that's what he was going to do but you know it's the point in case the case in point is that.

[00:27:13] You know this is such an intriguing compelling story that they were already like churning out the content you know before the jury was seated.

[00:27:23] The perfect husband the Lacey Peterson story is the one with Dean Kane and I came on to and 2004 I also distinctly remember that one Kevin I could not like a Dean Kane this the same.

[00:27:37] And now I really get it again and the same.

[00:27:41] So so Kevin to the to the property at hand Scott Baldwin three part of American murder Lacey Peterson first of all two first of all why now and why is it called American murder what's particularly American about it.

[00:27:58] Well let's see here your first question why now you sound like Laura Bricker on primary is that's always her question and it's like why not use it to suit or too late I can never tell right now is a good one.

[00:28:12] It's funny because sky boardman will me just answer your second question for you are just having observation American murder here's to be a series on Netflix.

[00:28:20] The first American murder was about and I'm not going to remember the name of Chris what Chris why thank you more yes right.

[00:28:29] So why is it like American murder well I mean it could be because it's a sensation could just because it's a catchy title but because you know titles are important too, but we also know they're kind of BS.

[00:28:44] So as far as like why like what I mean what does this what is this like a really interesting American murder I mean our instances here of you know the themes about intimate partner violence.

[00:28:57] Also just sort of you know whenever there's a mystery involved you know as opposed to just a straight out who done it that's always very compelling and you know then it also sort of as we we said it it got all sorts of other media.

[00:29:14] I mean one of the things that I think about with this one is you know sky boardman is the director and she's you know more known for like classics like abducted in plain sight.

[00:29:27] And the girl in the picture and some other ones where the stories the underlying story is not well known right.

[00:29:36] So the the listener experience and or the viewer experience tends to be one where you get really surprised because you don't know what the twists and turns are right and you guys have watched abducted in plain sight and you're like you gotta be kidding me about relief right and you know just I mean how many times did you fall out of your chair watch you know because you didn't know what was going.

[00:29:57] And so like with you know I think I just murdered my dad I'm not getting the title.

[00:30:03] Correct just killed my dad.

[00:30:04] I just killed my dad very much yeah yeah yeah I mean sky's great and I think this is what's this is different for her because it is a story.

[00:30:13] Where as you said everybody kind of knows what's going on so what do you bring that's new.

[00:30:18] What are you saying that we hadn't seen before I think the thing is they have Lacy's mom.

[00:30:23] Which they don't have anywhere else.

[00:30:25] Um I think Sharon is that her name.

[00:30:28] Yes Sharon Sharon okay yeah I'm wrong you know you can just edit this out or you could you know I can leave it in when everybody know what a mess up I am.

[00:30:36] So I think that that's kind of what's what's different but you know again we know the broad strokes so it's just sort of I think in a way it's just a you know another.

[00:30:49] Reframing of a picture that we already know.

[00:30:52] I think if you don't know when this is what we said if you don't know the case it's great because it's very procedural it's very step by step.

[00:31:01] Great talking heads you got the timeline going along.

[00:31:05] I thought that it was coming out now and then I thought no that can't be right because of the in a L.A. innocence project accepting scots case in January this year.

[00:31:17] But I know that the documentary would have taken longer than this to make and certainly that fact does not mention in this documentary so again I was I'm very torn because I think it's very well made.

[00:31:29] And it's jam packed full of all the information that you need and it asks really good questions and it puts the media on blast and it has Amber Fry.

[00:31:42] Yeah.

[00:31:43] So perhaps it's for that.

[00:31:47] Yes so you know again like the question about like why now and the the innocence project case see I don't see a lot of the innocence project.

[00:31:59] Arguments being may in its innocence arguments being made here so that's one of the reasons why I think oh yeah that's nothing to do with the timing of that because while there are.

[00:32:09] Parts of this you know the story that that mean there are there are questions about certain things and you can certainly have other kinds of arguments and at some point in the show you'll have to ask me about the argument I had with my wife about this.

[00:32:23] Yeah, just he oh I you Sarah just made the face like oh tell me more time like the present no time like the present all right.

[00:32:32] So I'll just tell you that my wife Rebecca Lavoie who's the host of crime writers on.

[00:32:37] The host of the case of crime saying yes right absolutely yes yes she she and I have different views on Scott Peterson's guilt.

[00:32:47] Now I think that it's pretty straightforward for me I think that.

[00:32:51] He's guilty and I think that they've made a good case Rebecca is not convinced and she thinks that.

[00:32:58] Did you know that he's innocent so we watch this and so I tried really hard not to get drawn into the argument because she'll say like mmm.

[00:33:07] Yeah, they didn't have the x y or z and I'll be like.

[00:33:11] Yeah, not taking the paid I'm not that I'm like don't take the break do not take the bait and so eventually I took the bait.

[00:33:21] And so I mean.

[00:33:23] So there are the there aren't it you know interesting things here you've got which don't get mentioned in this particular documentary when the body was discovered of.

[00:33:36] Connor the baby had some kind of twine or rope or other kind of debris wrapped around his neck.

[00:33:43] Which some people would say that indicates that that he was born and then somebody choked him now the opposite fact is that look there was no bruising under the skin where that was so.

[00:33:57] That wouldn't be you know so that's not a murder weapon and it's very likely just flots and inject some from you know from the water.

[00:34:07] So I mean good leave your flip flop in the ocean and see what it comes back all in twine with right there were other things like that you know about like going out with the boat and you know this is the demeanor and things like that.

[00:34:20] But for me it just comes down to if you're going to say that you know that it's the burglar is across the street.

[00:34:29] Again, which is really sucks anyway it's something else you're saying hey you know and you have to go along she did not die then she gave birth later.

[00:34:37] Baby's born and then they got so I've said okay then this is what one must believe that there was someone or there was a person or persons who is looking for an opportunity.

[00:34:50] To kidnap a pregnant woman specifically not just anybody but a pregnant woman for the sake of having the baby.

[00:34:59] Because you can't kidnap somebody and then like let them hang around your cabin for another couple of weeks and then deliver the baby if that's not what you want.

[00:35:07] And so if you're going to target somebody you're going to target the pregnant woman with a dog.

[00:35:13] You know I mean here was there another pregnant woman like with a gun walking on the streets and all that's too dangerous.

[00:35:20] So just just just kind of just kind of defied like I just didn't find any of that plausible and so I mean if you want to say.

[00:35:28] You know that somebody else had had beef with her and I mean you know I guess you know there are there are those arguments like you what you just don't know but I just I'm just not buying it and then that was then then we didn't talk to each other for a couple hours.

[00:35:44] I mean they say in this documentary itself like she basically just stayed at home her circle was really small.

[00:35:55] So for her to be the victim of what a random attack it was very like unlikely it's you know outcomes raise or yeah and this is the other thing.

[00:36:09] So I mean it's like if he if one were to believe that somebody else killed Lacey Peterson and then dumped her body.

[00:36:19] Where did that person would on the the real culprit what also have had to dump the body in the same place that her husband just happened to drive to 90 miles away.

[00:36:32] Right.

[00:36:34] Well, the counter argument the counter argument on that and this is where I thought that I heard it but go ahead.

[00:36:39] I tell me.

[00:36:40] Yes, I haven't heard that.

[00:36:42] Well, that that that that the fact that he went out fishing inverted commas on that day in the bay was all through the media so that the real culprit would have known where to dump the body because they knew where Scott.

[00:37:00] I mean it to me at Vegas believe and also if you if you kidnap Lacey because you wanted the baby.

[00:37:06] Why is the baby in the waters yeah yeah yeah and you were also have to again if you're going to set up Scott and bring it to you also would have to get out into the water.

[00:37:17] So it would come you can't just leave it on the beach right.

[00:37:20] It floats it floats in right and so one would have to also get a boat and find a way to.

[00:37:28] To drive to those and said turn away now if you're a bit squamous she was a total of those anchors so you wouldn't have to.

[00:37:37] So you're going to set up Scott surely you want the body to be found surely you toss it in and let it come to sure that you actually anchor it.

[00:37:46] To prevent it being found.

[00:37:48] Yeah, yeah, why is God like making multiple anchors you're just one boat right like why is he like four full in two to answer.

[00:37:57] Oh okay yeah right but I mean like if you have one boat you don't need five in I don't know Marry maybe you have a boat.

[00:38:02] Yeah I was multiple anchors because he just it's built and suspenders I suppose I don't I don't have multiple anchors but I also think the sad part of all of this which is again kind of way like Sarah said it would be a little graphic.

[00:38:17] Because she was pregnant that's probably why they were able to find her body because.

[00:38:26] In pregnant women who die.

[00:38:30] The feet is our expel like after the you know the the bloating and all that especially in water too as well so the spelling of the fetus.

[00:38:42] Plus her they said her body was like it was just her torso so the anchors more than likely are what kind of.

[00:38:50] The cat made her body fall apart which did was able to make it be found obviously if if she probably if she wasn't pregnant going into the water we might have never found her body is a good.

[00:39:03] Right, right, right, Connor's I'm Bill Kuhkord was still attached so again if you kidnapped her to get the baby and we have done a case where someone did kidnapped someone's just born baby.

[00:39:13] We have horrible just but you would keep keep the the born baby now did either of you sits true face to face with Scott.

[00:39:26] Oh, you know I did.

[00:39:30] No, what is Pika three parts.

[00:39:33] What we're in this three parts of one of the most boring things that I have ever seen.

[00:39:41] But this leans very much on why the innocence project has taken up his case so for that I I stayed for that.

[00:39:53] I ground my way through it so that none of you have to but there's you know the the van that people said that you know they had been seen at the burglary never mind that the person who saw it changed its color three times.

[00:40:08] There's a burnt out van there's a mattress with rusty stains that could be blood why wasn't this tested say the people who thinks got Scott Peterson is innocent.

[00:40:21] Cut to the detective who we met in this saying we did tested.

[00:40:26] But we did test.

[00:40:28] So every I'm not set listen it may shock both of you but the police are sometimes incompetent and the police are in their heads and they stick with it or the police sometimes actively push on to someone who didn't do it.

[00:40:45] I know that's shocking but here these basic steps of.

[00:40:51] Why wasn't this tested nice setup and I thought yes why wasn't it and the answer was it was it was test.

[00:40:58] So there's a very strange dissonance I think in the innocence project that they have so many applications all these innocence projects have so many applications.

[00:41:07] So my mind is taken by the fact of what are they seeing that of all the hundreds of cases that come to their door every week that they picked this one.

[00:41:20] I would like to say it's not because of the notoriety it's not because of the celebrity of the case but I want I just wonder if it is so in three episodes I got nothing new that I hadn't had before so.

[00:41:32] Right right yeah, you know also.

[00:41:36] You can still be guilty and be entitled to a fair trial.

[00:41:42] And so far as if you know if you have an imperfect trial that's still doesn't mean you're innocent it does mean that your constitutional rights may have been violated.

[00:41:54] It's not the same thing.

[00:41:57] But it is this project does I mean by its name they're not here like saying.

[00:42:03] There their brand is not fair trials right their brand is actual innocence and so.

[00:42:11] Yeah, I don't know why you're right I don't know why they're taking this up I really haven't seen the thing you know the things that they point to in their.

[00:42:20] their press releases or their their court filings do have to do with like this person wasn't.

[00:42:28] Quizz and this you know what it doesn't seem to be sort of any new factual stuff the fact that there was no blood found in the house or in the truck or the boat or whatever I mean that that would be the you know you'd expect that if she were shot.

[00:42:44] They talk about they talk about things soft kill which I hadn't heard before soft kill meaning it doesn't leave a trace because you struggle or suffocate the you're.

[00:42:55] Yeah, I mean that seems to be you know I mean theory.

[00:42:59] You and Rebecca came to the read case thinking perhaps yes Karen read did kill her boyfriend but the trial and the police case was not well done and should be looked at.

[00:43:15] So and as of course you know she absolutely didn't do it not only because she didn't do it because the card didn't run over him and so therefore she didn't do it.

[00:43:23] But the point I think that that what can be made is just because you are guilty and did it it does not mean that correct procedures don't apply to you and this is where I believe some frustration among a man police officers can happen where they know somebody did it.

[00:43:42] They can't prove it so they have a manufacturer and the answer is correct but the workings are wrong.

[00:43:50] So Kevin how many magnifying glasses are you going to write American murder LAC Peterson out of a possible five.

[00:43:58] I'm going to go with three magnifying glasses it's a solid but it isn't you know it isn't a groundbreaking in any way it's you know fairly competent retelling of very high profile.

[00:44:12] Story it has a couple of new things to it in particular LAC's mom it was interesting to hear from her setting the record straight answer of her feelings about Scott Peterson the way that that had been sort of.

[00:44:25] You know not betrayed well and Amber Fry again then somebody who has spoken before however.

[00:44:33] You know again to see her in this context I think you know with a little bit of time was was also very interesting but all know I mean I think it's probably you know.

[00:44:43] Worth your time but if you're looking for certainly you know thought provoking arguments you know maybe for instance or to learn something new I don't think this is for you.

[00:44:55] Yeah well said Marie how many magnifying glasses would you give this talk you series on the nose exactly three I mean it was easy to sit through.

[00:45:07] Nothing new well produced well made but you know I mean very standard middle of the road how about you say.

[00:45:18] Yeah I'm a three it's it's well made it's a surprising subject for Scott Baldwin or a fan of her here and.

[00:45:27] Yeah her subjects are always very interesting I don't know about even the one that we didn't like particularly the truth about Jim was something that we hadn't heard before and did make us think about.

[00:45:37] Family secrets and how do you deal with call cases and what do you do if you think your grandfather's a zero killer.

[00:45:46] So here as we all have right as we all have.

[00:45:51] But three from me as well.

[00:45:55] So let's get to our recommendations Kevin what do you have to recommend to our listeners.

[00:45:59] Well for those of you that have netflix and I would suggest that you stream daughters it's a documentary about.

[00:46:06] A daddy daughter dance that takes place inside a jail now if you think that's all it is it's it's much more than that for this fall if you want to big fat ugly cry.

[00:46:17] It's a good one but it's also very thought for bokeh and talk about the consequences of the criminal legal system about how.

[00:46:24] And so a car separation affects families all together and that generational trauma that occurs this is a program not for prisoners this is a program for children.

[00:46:35] And for their development and it's it's it's not just the dance they do end up following these these children.

[00:46:43] A couple of years down the road to see whether or not this program has made a difference in their relationships with their fathers.

[00:46:50] That is such a great recommendation we covered daughters a couple of weeks ago with Latonia Starks and shuntel Francis.

[00:46:58] So I would also recommend that you listen to Rebecca previously mentioned Rebecca Lavoi has a series podcast series called you can't make this up and her interview with the two directors has just dropped and I would recommend listening to that.

[00:47:14] To collect the set watch the series listen to us and then and then listen to that conversation it was fascinating.

[00:47:22] At crime scene where you get to hear your feedback and suggestions for future episodes you can follow crime scene on Twitter at crime scene RHAB that's S. E. N or email us at crime scene RHAP at gmail.com.

[00:47:35] We're on tiktok at crime dot scene at all other social media at crime scene podcast and please remember to subscribe to our feed by going around has a website dot com slash crime feed it makes a big different.

[00:47:50] So Kevin, where can the people find you if you want to be found?

[00:47:54] Well, I have to say I'm still squatting on x Twitter whatever but you can leave me a message and maybe when the cesspool clears up I'll see it.

[00:48:04] I'm at Kevin P. Flint and just a few plugs of you many other podcasts in your empire.

[00:48:11] Sure, we'd love to have you tune in to crime writers on the true crime review podcast where we cover a lot of the same titles that you guys do as well as podcasting and other cool stuff.

[00:48:22] And I also have a podcast called these are their stories it's a long order podcast that's it's the show where we pick an episode from either criminal intent as for you or original recipe and we crap on it for 35 minutes and then talk about the real life case that inspired the show.

[00:48:39] Yes, fictional fictional crimes more hilarity exactly the fictional victims you can laugh at them it's okay.

[00:48:49] Painus things happened to them on screen but they went home and got they cash the check or find exactly.

[00:48:56] And what have you got going on Murray weekend the people find you because I know they want to.

[00:49:02] You can find me on Twitter at Murray talks too much that's to like number two where I basically just talking all things big brother right now.

[00:49:12] BB26 is going strong.

[00:49:16] So follow me on Twitter so you'll know when I'll be on the rom has a podcast network actually talking about my brother of course over on the recap kickback me and shepel are recapping shows like the only way that we know how to.

[00:49:30] We have previously watched Hollywood black which is a mini series about how.

[00:49:38] Black culture and basically Hollywood culture has been intertwined since very beginning and for our true crime listeners I know you'll love this.

[00:49:49] Our last episode on the recap kickback me and shepel were joined by Jason Reed a guest here on crime scene who will be on again soon.

[00:49:59] He joined us for untold the murder of air McNair so.

[00:50:04] It was really fun I basically did a cry a long an episode long crime scene plug for the recap kickback on yet yeah really.

[00:50:14] It was absolutely perfect I drove the conversation and we talked about untold the murder of air McNair and I know all of our listeners will really love to hear that episode.

[00:50:25] So please go to recap kickback.com to subscribe you can also go to YouTube because that is the video podcast you can go to YouTube dot com slash at recap kickback in order to see it there as well I'm telling you you don't want to miss that we had a lot of fun go watch that.

[00:50:44] Sarah what about you?

[00:50:45] Well you can follow me at Sarah carried in on all the things you can find me over on silent podcast international.

[00:50:53] I'm just about to start my coverage of repulse drag race global all stars with Katie from a date with date line tuning that is going to be a lot of fun.

[00:51:03] And and a bell fiddle from the traders Australia season two and I your Aussie queens we are going to bring you the amazing race Australia celebrity edition.

[00:51:13] Preseason cast breakdown and the season to come also if you've been watching claim to fame.

[00:51:19] Past and future guests Mary Payne and myself were with the date with date line girls Kimberly and Katie on their live to cover the finale of claim to fame so lots of intertwining there.

[00:51:30] Mary what are we watching next week.

[00:51:33] Next time on crime scene recovering worst ex ever with Jason Reed and we're also going to be doing a brief recap of the other untold episodes which is sign stealer and hope solversus US soccer wonderful count wage.

[00:51:48] Watch them all on Netflix and sing senior comments and questions.

[00:51:53] Thanks to Kevin Flynn for joining us will from America for the theme music and the whole RHA P team behind the scenes until next time case.