Crime Seen | Episode 120: WORST EX EVER

[00:00:00] [SPEAKER_00]: An island in the middle of the Pacific.

[00:00:04] [SPEAKER_00]: Nauru.

[00:00:05] [SPEAKER_00]: A paradise.

[00:00:06] [SPEAKER_00]: Rich with a raw material that the whole world wants.

[00:00:10] [SPEAKER_00]: And that it takes, until nothing is left.

[00:00:14] [SPEAKER_00]: The story of Nauru is one about the rush.

[00:00:16] [SPEAKER_01]: We went from gold to...

[00:00:17] [SPEAKER_00]: And the cart after.

[00:00:18] [SPEAKER_01]: Not even bronze.

[00:00:20] [SPEAKER_01]: From gold to rust.

[00:00:23] [SPEAKER_00]: This is Enden, Pleasant Island.

[00:00:26] [SPEAKER_00]: A docuseries podcast by Andan and the Futurium.

[00:00:28] [SPEAKER_00]: From now on, on Spotify.

[00:01:22] [SPEAKER_05]: Please go to robhasawebsite.com slash crime feed.

[00:01:26] [SPEAKER_05]: We know true crime.

[00:01:29] [SPEAKER_05]: Last week we watched American Murder, Lacey Peterson

[00:01:32] [SPEAKER_05]: with Kevin Flynn from Crime Riders On.

[00:01:35] [SPEAKER_05]: Mari, what did we watch this week?

[00:01:38] [SPEAKER_02]: This week we watched Worst Ex Ever on Netflix.

[00:01:42] [SPEAKER_02]: It's made by Bloomhouse and it follows in the footsteps

[00:01:45] [SPEAKER_02]: of the two seasons of Worst Roommate Ever,

[00:01:48] [SPEAKER_02]: which they also made for Netflix.

[00:01:51] [SPEAKER_02]: And nipping at the heels of Chappelle and Matt Scott

[00:01:54] [SPEAKER_02]: for most appearances, someone who will never break up

[00:01:57] [SPEAKER_02]: with us no matter how many messy documentaries

[00:02:00] [SPEAKER_02]: we make him watch.

[00:02:01] [SPEAKER_02]: It's Jason Reed.

[00:02:02] [SPEAKER_02]: Jason, how are you?

[00:02:05] [SPEAKER_03]: Mari, Sarah, hi, how you doing?

[00:02:07] [SPEAKER_03]: To all my exes out there, a hearty hello.

[00:02:10] [SPEAKER_03]: I hope life is finding you well

[00:02:11] [SPEAKER_03]: and you remember me fondly.

[00:02:14] [SPEAKER_03]: Yes.

[00:02:16] [SPEAKER_03]: And that you don't seek retribution.

[00:02:18] [SPEAKER_03]: That you don't seek retribution against me for anything I've done to you.

[00:02:22] [SPEAKER_03]: Not to say there's anything that I need to be set

[00:02:24] [SPEAKER_03]: or to be sure for, but sometimes they don't deserve it.

[00:02:26] [SPEAKER_03]: Get it. We saw that.

[00:02:28] [SPEAKER_03]: So Mari and Sarah, I'm happy to be here.

[00:02:31] [SPEAKER_03]: I am determined to catch up to Matt and Chappelle.

[00:02:34] [SPEAKER_03]: So I will take I will take any murdery terrible thing

[00:02:40] [SPEAKER_03]: that you have to fling at me, which you have seen fit

[00:02:44] [SPEAKER_03]: to do several times.

[00:02:45] [SPEAKER_05]: Oh, how does this sit in your head?

[00:02:49] [SPEAKER_05]: Cannon with our father sperm eat the rich money.

[00:02:54] [SPEAKER_05]: Take care of my horrible medical crimes

[00:02:57] [SPEAKER_05]: and American nightmare police not believing people

[00:03:02] [SPEAKER_05]: and the interrogation tapes.

[00:03:05] [SPEAKER_05]: Not a very good documentary.

[00:03:06] [SPEAKER_05]: Where does where does worst ex ever sit in that group of of mess?

[00:03:12] [SPEAKER_03]: It sits pretty high up there.

[00:03:14] [SPEAKER_03]: I'm not sure if anything will ever top sperm,

[00:03:17] [SPEAKER_03]: but this is pretty high up there.

[00:03:20] [SPEAKER_03]: Like when just when you think it's like, yeah, these people suck.

[00:03:24] [SPEAKER_03]: These people are terrible.

[00:03:25] [SPEAKER_03]: It's like, oh, my God, like it just jumps off a cliff

[00:03:27] [SPEAKER_03]: and just goes to a whole other level of

[00:03:31] [SPEAKER_03]: despicable and this and it's, you know, just

[00:03:35] [SPEAKER_03]: so just when I you guys come around every time

[00:03:38] [SPEAKER_03]: when I started the least bit of trust in the law

[00:03:41] [SPEAKER_03]: and you guys are my why I should not do that.

[00:03:46] [SPEAKER_03]: Every time I appreciate the the

[00:03:49] [SPEAKER_03]: the occasional reminder not to trust the cops.

[00:03:54] [SPEAKER_03]: So, yes, I'm back.

[00:03:56] [SPEAKER_03]: I'm here.

[00:03:58] [SPEAKER_03]: And, you know, when you say worst ex ever, it's like, OK,

[00:04:01] [SPEAKER_03]: what's what is the what is next?

[00:04:03] [SPEAKER_03]: That doesn't even sound like it happened.

[00:04:05] [SPEAKER_03]: It's like what happened?

[00:04:06] [SPEAKER_03]: Like did they throw away your CD collection?

[00:04:09] [SPEAKER_03]: Did they pour sugar in your gas tank?

[00:04:12] [SPEAKER_03]: Leave a flaming bag of poop on your porch?

[00:04:15] [SPEAKER_03]: Like what is what?

[00:04:16] [SPEAKER_03]: What is the worst ex ever really?

[00:04:18] [SPEAKER_03]: What is that really about?

[00:04:19] [SPEAKER_03]: And we boy, they did not lie when they say worst.

[00:04:23] [SPEAKER_03]: They told the truth.

[00:04:26] [SPEAKER_03]: Let me tell you that much.

[00:04:27] [SPEAKER_03]: It was boy.

[00:04:29] [SPEAKER_03]: You just can't you can't imagine much worse, to be honest.

[00:04:32] [SPEAKER_02]: Honestly, and we got four different stories to talk about, too.

[00:04:36] [SPEAKER_02]: But can I just say a little inside baseball?

[00:04:39] [SPEAKER_02]: We were really like, we are we are going to give Jason some really nice.

[00:04:45] [SPEAKER_04]: Oh, Jason, we are.

[00:04:48] [SPEAKER_04]: Please do. Please go ahead.

[00:04:50] [SPEAKER_02]: We were like we were like the untolds just came out.

[00:04:53] [SPEAKER_02]: Well, we'll just have Jason watch sign

[00:04:55] [SPEAKER_02]: Steeler and hope solo versus U.S.

[00:04:57] [SPEAKER_02]: soccer or something like that, something really nice, just really low key.

[00:05:03] [SPEAKER_02]: Spoke, however,

[00:05:04] [SPEAKER_03]: the size of stories, you know, coming up in my sports mood right now.

[00:05:09] [SPEAKER_03]: Exactly. That's great.

[00:05:10] [SPEAKER_03]: That's awesome.

[00:05:11] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, I mean, it's not it's not puppy dogs and rainbows,

[00:05:13] [SPEAKER_03]: but it's like there's no murder involved.

[00:05:15] [SPEAKER_03]: Like there's no there's no debauchery.

[00:05:18] [SPEAKER_03]: I mean, I'm not even really sure I didn't honestly watch those two.

[00:05:20] [SPEAKER_03]: So maybe there is.

[00:05:22] [SPEAKER_03]: But you know, it's science dealers like, I mean, come on.

[00:05:24] [SPEAKER_03]: Like, it's not that bad.

[00:05:25] [SPEAKER_03]: So I was like, all right, all right.

[00:05:27] [SPEAKER_03]: Mari and Sarah throw me the throw me a softball pun intended.

[00:05:32] [SPEAKER_03]: So I'm down for a great and then go ahead.

[00:05:35] [SPEAKER_02]: And then we're like, oh, it's not our fault is Netflix's fault

[00:05:39] [SPEAKER_02]: because worst X ever was supposed to come out sooner than we anticipated.

[00:05:45] [SPEAKER_02]: So we were supposed to cover it like two weeks ago or a week ago

[00:05:49] [SPEAKER_02]: or not. We were supposed to record it two weeks ago.

[00:05:52] [SPEAKER_02]: And then all of a sudden it got pushed back

[00:05:56] [SPEAKER_02]: and we already had our slots and where's the extra

[00:06:00] [SPEAKER_02]: just happened to come out on the slot that landed on Jason.

[00:06:03] [SPEAKER_02]: And so the murder.

[00:06:05] [SPEAKER_05]: Jason, I started my message.

[00:06:07] [SPEAKER_05]: You know, have I have we told you lately how handsome you are.

[00:06:11] [SPEAKER_05]: That's why you responded.

[00:06:12] [SPEAKER_03]: Oh, yeah, that's what I knew I was in trouble.

[00:06:17] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah. So we are so glad to have you back for a sixth time, Jason.

[00:06:22] [SPEAKER_02]: You're getting close.

[00:06:23] [SPEAKER_02]: I believe Chappelle and Matt, they're there.

[00:06:26] [SPEAKER_02]: Are they nine or 10, Sarah?

[00:06:29] [SPEAKER_02]: Eight, I believe.

[00:06:31] [SPEAKER_02]: Eight. Oh, so you're right.

[00:06:33] [SPEAKER_05]: I got strike. I thought they were knocking.

[00:06:36] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, that's about to do.

[00:06:37] [SPEAKER_05]: Matt's about to do number nine.

[00:06:39] [SPEAKER_03]: Well, next time you all think of matters, Chappelle, just think Jason instead.

[00:06:43] [SPEAKER_03]: I mean, let me

[00:06:45] [SPEAKER_02]: OK, we will make sure we do that.

[00:06:49] [SPEAKER_02]: OK, I think we we got to get to it.

[00:06:52] [SPEAKER_02]: We got to get to these horrendous.

[00:06:55] [SPEAKER_02]: Oh, my gosh.

[00:06:57] [SPEAKER_02]: So to the series,

[00:07:01] [SPEAKER_02]: as we record this worst sex ever, ever is number one on Netflix TV,

[00:07:07] [SPEAKER_02]: just like worst roommate ever was.

[00:07:10] [SPEAKER_02]: Each of these four episodes focuses on a different case of a nightmare ex

[00:07:15] [SPEAKER_02]: and will take those cases one by one.

[00:07:20] [SPEAKER_02]: So episode one, which my God, you guys, like I was like, wow,

[00:07:25] [SPEAKER_02]: this is egregious.

[00:07:26] [SPEAKER_02]: Then you get to episode two, you're like, dang, this is horrendous.

[00:07:30] [SPEAKER_02]: Then you get to episode three and you're like, what is going on?

[00:07:33] [SPEAKER_02]: And then by four, honestly, I by four hours just like, yeah,

[00:07:36] [SPEAKER_02]: at this point. Yeah.

[00:07:38] [SPEAKER_05]: But let's talk about nobody ever marry anybody or go out with anybody,

[00:07:43] [SPEAKER_05]: have anything but platonic relations, nobody, nobody ever.

[00:07:46] [SPEAKER_03]: And if you do, don't break up with them.

[00:07:48] [SPEAKER_03]: Get everyone background checked, get everyone

[00:07:52] [SPEAKER_03]: all the psychological tests you can find.

[00:07:54] [SPEAKER_03]: Seriously, like make it part of your is starting to date.

[00:07:59] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I just it's just ridiculous.

[00:08:03] [SPEAKER_02]: Honestly, we're so glad, so glad I'm off the market.

[00:08:06] [SPEAKER_03]: Oh, my God.

[00:08:07] [SPEAKER_03]: I mean, Jason, over here like that.

[00:08:09] [SPEAKER_03]: And I was like, if I was, I'm going to go back out.

[00:08:13] [SPEAKER_03]: If everything happened, I'd go back out on the dating world.

[00:08:15] [SPEAKER_03]: You need references.

[00:08:17] [SPEAKER_03]: You need to answer a hundred point questionnaire.

[00:08:20] [SPEAKER_03]: Like, I need to make sure who I'm dealing with before I, you know,

[00:08:23] [SPEAKER_03]: before I go in anywhere.

[00:08:25] [SPEAKER_03]: You all scared me that much with this.

[00:08:27] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, Jason, you got to make sure you do everything you need to

[00:08:29] [SPEAKER_02]: to not end up like Judge Mathis, you know.

[00:08:33] [SPEAKER_02]: Yes. And Sarah, you're just like you're over there at this point.

[00:08:40] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[00:08:41] [SPEAKER_05]: So I think also, like, apart from the and we'll talk about it,

[00:08:46] [SPEAKER_05]: but apart from the very crazy worst exes,

[00:08:50] [SPEAKER_05]: the deficiencies in the justice system yet again, as you said,

[00:08:54] [SPEAKER_05]: just like yet again, I think incredibly exposed.

[00:08:59] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, not just in the justice system, but like the mental health system

[00:09:03] [SPEAKER_03]: where I think especially in episode one where,

[00:09:07] [SPEAKER_03]: you know, the perpetrator had some intervention early on,

[00:09:10] [SPEAKER_03]: but obviously it just wasn't enough because he had to take

[00:09:15] [SPEAKER_03]: like counseling classes or whatever.

[00:09:16] [SPEAKER_03]: Obviously, it always feels like these like community service

[00:09:20] [SPEAKER_03]: or court mandated things are just kind of checkoffs

[00:09:24] [SPEAKER_03]: in order to get things done and not enough to actually help diagnose.

[00:09:30] [SPEAKER_03]: See, this person is like criminally insane

[00:09:33] [SPEAKER_03]: who number one, obviously the perpetrator in that in the first episode is

[00:09:38] [SPEAKER_03]: I mean, all these people are criminally insane

[00:09:40] [SPEAKER_03]: and not to be able to identify that when he's in this system

[00:09:44] [SPEAKER_03]: and just kind of like, all right, you did your time.

[00:09:46] [SPEAKER_03]: See you. And then let him just go on unchecked

[00:09:49] [SPEAKER_03]: doing these things is crazy.

[00:09:51] [SPEAKER_03]: And just kind of a theme I saw like over the four episodes was like

[00:09:56] [SPEAKER_03]: the the level of consistency in policing is crazy

[00:10:00] [SPEAKER_03]: because the amount of evidence needed to lock someone up

[00:10:05] [SPEAKER_03]: and not lock someone like in episode three, where we have Rosa and my

[00:10:10] [SPEAKER_03]: where with what happened to poor grandma Sally and Sally.

[00:10:17] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, where's like we found all these things in their car.

[00:10:20] [SPEAKER_03]: Like, but we still need to find some more though.

[00:10:22] [SPEAKER_03]: Like we still need more to actually know who did this.

[00:10:25] [SPEAKER_03]: But then we have Simona where it's like someone said they saw her plate.

[00:10:29] [SPEAKER_03]: So like we're going to lock her up for almost a year for that. Crazy.

[00:10:33] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah. It was after episode two, like after I watched episode two,

[00:10:37] [SPEAKER_02]: I was like, Jason, I'm so glad you're coming on to talk about this with us

[00:10:40] [SPEAKER_02]: because I know how Jason loves like failures,

[00:10:44] [SPEAKER_02]: like failures of organized organizations and systems.

[00:10:48] [SPEAKER_02]: And so I was like, and this was a massive,

[00:10:51] [SPEAKER_02]: massive oversight in a lot of different systems over the four episodes.

[00:10:56] [SPEAKER_02]: So needless to say, I think we all have some like really strong opinions

[00:11:00] [SPEAKER_02]: over for each episode.

[00:11:02] [SPEAKER_02]: So let's definitely dig into it.

[00:11:05] [SPEAKER_02]: Episode one called Dating the Devil.

[00:11:07] [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, that feels like an understatement to me.

[00:11:12] [SPEAKER_03]: Accurate, inaccurate.

[00:11:13] [SPEAKER_03]: But like the devil, like even harder in Dating the Devil.

[00:11:20] [SPEAKER_02]: Justine is the third girlfriend

[00:11:21] [SPEAKER_02]: beaten and abused at the hands of her supposed partner, Ben Foster.

[00:11:26] [SPEAKER_02]: Foster has served 30 months for domestic violence

[00:11:29] [SPEAKER_02]: against two previous partners, Amber and Jamie.

[00:11:32] [SPEAKER_02]: And he went on the run after beating Justine almost to death.

[00:11:37] [SPEAKER_02]: Foster ended up completing suicide while hiding under a house

[00:11:42] [SPEAKER_02]: like episode one was wild.

[00:11:45] [SPEAKER_02]: And I definitely understand why they picked it to lead off the series.

[00:11:52] [SPEAKER_02]: We we always talk about it.

[00:11:54] [SPEAKER_02]: It's it's literally true crime documentary 101.

[00:11:57] [SPEAKER_02]: You always start with a 911 tape.

[00:12:00] [SPEAKER_02]: But this was so interesting because we get Justine's friend, Angie,

[00:12:05] [SPEAKER_02]: sitting down, we see like the the the worst ex-severs in Blumhouse

[00:12:10] [SPEAKER_02]: like to do the thing where you see the producers interacting with

[00:12:14] [SPEAKER_02]: the talking heads and they ask Angie, like,

[00:12:17] [SPEAKER_02]: did she want to hear the 911 call?

[00:12:19] [SPEAKER_02]: And apparently she hadn't heard it like since that night or ever.

[00:12:23] [SPEAKER_02]: But Angie is listening to the 911 call as we're listening to it.

[00:12:27] [SPEAKER_02]: And this is a 911 call that I'm just like, oh my gosh.

[00:12:31] [SPEAKER_02]: Like Angie is on the phone with 911 saying her friend Justine

[00:12:35] [SPEAKER_02]: called her saying that she's hurt and she may need to be in hospital.

[00:12:38] [SPEAKER_02]: But then she disconnects.

[00:12:40] [SPEAKER_02]: So Angie is on the phone with 911.

[00:12:42] [SPEAKER_02]: She's like, I'm on my way to her house.

[00:12:43] [SPEAKER_02]: I'm going to her house as Angie pulls up.

[00:12:46] [SPEAKER_02]: She hears like loud bangs.

[00:12:48] [SPEAKER_02]: She hears screaming and she's just on the phone with 911.

[00:12:52] [SPEAKER_02]: Like we got to get here.

[00:12:54] [SPEAKER_02]: My friend, I just hear she's like trying to get in the house.

[00:12:56] [SPEAKER_02]: She's going all the way around the house.

[00:12:58] [SPEAKER_02]: She's yelling like, I'm here, Justine, you know, I'm coming.

[00:13:01] [SPEAKER_02]: I'm coming. And then the garage opens and she goes to run into the garage.

[00:13:06] [SPEAKER_02]: And here's Ben Foster standing there.

[00:13:08] [SPEAKER_02]: And she's like, what are you what's going on?

[00:13:10] [SPEAKER_02]: And poor Angie is just frantic and Ben is just like,

[00:13:13] [SPEAKER_02]: oh, I think she's having a heart attack. Go check on her.

[00:13:16] [SPEAKER_02]: And she she goes to check on her and he gets in the car and drives away.

[00:13:20] [SPEAKER_02]: And just the nightmare of hearing Angie discovering Justine.

[00:13:24] [SPEAKER_02]: And she's like, Justine.

[00:13:25] [SPEAKER_02]: And she's like, just just explained to 911 there's blood everywhere.

[00:13:29] [SPEAKER_02]: She has a noose around her neck like she it is frantic.

[00:13:33] [SPEAKER_02]: This was a 911 call like I like one.

[00:13:36] [SPEAKER_02]: I've never heard before.

[00:13:39] [SPEAKER_02]: Sarah, what did you think about this opening for episode one?

[00:13:44] [SPEAKER_05]: Look, I think this is a terrific, terrific case.

[00:13:47] [SPEAKER_05]: I think this was a great choice of the four to make this episode one

[00:13:51] [SPEAKER_05]: because it's something that unfortunately and disgustingly,

[00:13:56] [SPEAKER_05]: we are familiar with domestic violence, intimate partner violence,

[00:14:01] [SPEAKER_05]: and it is ramped up to the nth degree.

[00:14:04] [SPEAKER_05]: But it is it's an entree into something that we're familiar with.

[00:14:09] [SPEAKER_05]: I think it serves as a great warning, like when Amber,

[00:14:13] [SPEAKER_05]: one of his exes says he would pretend to slit my throat in a playful manner.

[00:14:18] [SPEAKER_05]: It's like ladies and you know,

[00:14:22] [SPEAKER_05]: heed these warnings, heed these warnings.

[00:14:24] [SPEAKER_05]: Oh, he already slapped me once and then he apologized. He did so.

[00:14:28] [SPEAKER_05]: And I think starting with the number one call, it was first of all familiar

[00:14:31] [SPEAKER_05]: and then really unusual.

[00:14:33] [SPEAKER_05]: And I think the unusual thing, as you say, is because Angie,

[00:14:37] [SPEAKER_05]: we hear her discover the situation at the house

[00:14:41] [SPEAKER_05]: trying to get in and discover Justine's body.

[00:14:45] [SPEAKER_05]: Now, Justine lives just spoiler.

[00:14:48] [SPEAKER_05]: She had to learn to walk and talk again.

[00:14:50] [SPEAKER_05]: And we do see her at the end.

[00:14:51] [SPEAKER_05]: And she is. Yeah. Can I say something about that?

[00:14:54] [SPEAKER_03]: I yeah, I really I really hate when they play with lives like that.

[00:14:58] [SPEAKER_03]: Like, I don't know.

[00:15:00] [SPEAKER_03]: Tell me just things alive in the beginning.

[00:15:01] [SPEAKER_03]: Like, I don't want to be kept wondering.

[00:15:04] [SPEAKER_03]: And as we go into like for sure, episodes three and four is just like

[00:15:09] [SPEAKER_03]: when we hear about people just like, no, no, please don't tell me.

[00:15:13] [SPEAKER_03]: Like, don't tell me I'm getting to the point where this person's going to be gone.

[00:15:17] [SPEAKER_05]: Like, yeah, please don't use the past tense

[00:15:20] [SPEAKER_05]: when talking about your sister because I think that means she's going to die.

[00:15:24] [SPEAKER_05]: But I think waiting for it. Yeah.

[00:15:27] [SPEAKER_05]: This this

[00:15:28] [SPEAKER_05]: and then one on calls it sometimes gratuitous, sometimes of some interest.

[00:15:33] [SPEAKER_05]: This was the most

[00:15:35] [SPEAKER_05]: telling, I think, nine one one and a fantastic use of

[00:15:40] [SPEAKER_05]: taking us with her.

[00:15:43] [SPEAKER_05]: We felt like we were going in with Angie.

[00:15:44] [SPEAKER_05]: We didn't know what we were going to find.

[00:15:46] [SPEAKER_05]: She didn't know what she was going to find.

[00:15:47] [SPEAKER_05]: So, yeah, I really liked it, Mary.

[00:15:50] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[00:15:51] [SPEAKER_02]: Jason, what did what were your like takeaways from episode one?

[00:15:55] [SPEAKER_02]: You said you didn't like that.

[00:15:57] [SPEAKER_02]: They didn't tell us Justine lived

[00:16:00] [SPEAKER_02]: and they even showed us like the crime scene photos with her face blurred.

[00:16:03] [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, we did see her being taken away in the hot to an ambulance

[00:16:08] [SPEAKER_02]: on the body cam, but they weren't explicit on what happened to her until the end.

[00:16:14] [SPEAKER_02]: It was kind of like a I don't want to say it was a twist

[00:16:17] [SPEAKER_02]: because we go from Justine's case to timeline jump.

[00:16:22] [SPEAKER_02]: What eight years previously, we get Amber and Jamie stories.

[00:16:26] [SPEAKER_02]: What did you think about how this story was told?

[00:16:29] [SPEAKER_03]: I don't usually like stuff like that, where we're jumping all over the place

[00:16:32] [SPEAKER_03]: or, you know, jumping from past to present.

[00:16:35] [SPEAKER_03]: But I thought it was an effective way of storytelling

[00:16:37] [SPEAKER_03]: to help us understand the ramp up for for how

[00:16:42] [SPEAKER_03]: how Ben kind of ended up in the way that he was.

[00:16:45] [SPEAKER_03]: And to understand by time we get to Justine

[00:16:48] [SPEAKER_03]: like how he became so devious, just his timeline, his journey,

[00:16:53] [SPEAKER_03]: if you will, into his increasingly alarming behavior.

[00:16:57] [SPEAKER_03]: So I thought it was an effective way to tell the story.

[00:17:01] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, very, very alarming.

[00:17:04] [SPEAKER_02]: Like poor Amber, she she got beat up like what?

[00:17:09] [SPEAKER_02]: Three times by him, I want to say twice was it.

[00:17:12] [SPEAKER_05]: She left him and then she took him back because he

[00:17:17] [SPEAKER_05]: he had mended his ways.

[00:17:20] [SPEAKER_05]: This is a smart woman.

[00:17:21] [SPEAKER_05]: This is a smart woman.

[00:17:25] [SPEAKER_02]: Right. Exactly.

[00:17:26] [SPEAKER_02]: Technically, I think it was three times because remember the first time

[00:17:30] [SPEAKER_02]: they got into it where it wasn't where he just like he when he just pushed her

[00:17:35] [SPEAKER_02]: or something the first time or yet just hit her the first time she reported him.

[00:17:38] [SPEAKER_02]: He did go to jail for domestic battery for a little bit.

[00:17:43] [SPEAKER_02]: And he got out and they got back together.

[00:17:45] [SPEAKER_02]: Then that second time is where he really beat her.

[00:17:48] [SPEAKER_02]: Like he tried slashing at her face.

[00:17:51] [SPEAKER_02]: He got he slashed her her thumb and he just starts wailing on her.

[00:17:54] [SPEAKER_02]: And she does manage to to leave and go to the leasing office.

[00:18:00] [SPEAKER_02]: The leasing office calls the police, the police go and talk to him.

[00:18:02] [SPEAKER_02]: He's so crazy. He slashes his own face

[00:18:06] [SPEAKER_02]: and says she started it.

[00:18:07] [SPEAKER_02]: The police arrest her.

[00:18:10] [SPEAKER_02]: The first of many times that the police are dead wrong in this series.

[00:18:16] [SPEAKER_02]: Jason, she spends 18 months, 18 months,

[00:18:19] [SPEAKER_02]: 18 hours in prison before a smart judge who is a woman

[00:18:24] [SPEAKER_02]: finally looks into the background of her case.

[00:18:27] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, I mean, a lot of these episodes take it's kind of a theme

[00:18:30] [SPEAKER_03]: that runs through where a smart woman sees what's going on

[00:18:34] [SPEAKER_03]: and tries their best.

[00:18:36] [SPEAKER_03]: Sometimes it works.

[00:18:37] [SPEAKER_03]: Sometimes even that doesn't work.

[00:18:39] [SPEAKER_03]: Comes in, sees the situation for what it is.

[00:18:42] [SPEAKER_03]: And it's like, what are you all doing here?

[00:18:43] [SPEAKER_03]: Like, let's get this let's get this together.

[00:18:46] [SPEAKER_03]: And yeah, Amber was definitely a victim of that.

[00:18:49] [SPEAKER_03]: And it was it was tough to watch, really tough to watch

[00:18:52] [SPEAKER_03]: and talk like I said, it was just what I need a swift reminder

[00:18:56] [SPEAKER_03]: not to trust policing and trust police work.

[00:18:59] [SPEAKER_03]: You guys let me know. Mm hmm.

[00:19:02] [SPEAKER_02]: He then after after dealing with Amber

[00:19:05] [SPEAKER_02]: and in between dealing with Amber, he's dealing with Jamie up in Oregon.

[00:19:09] [SPEAKER_02]: And this was crazy.

[00:19:12] [SPEAKER_02]: He basically he kidnaps Jamie for several days, like three days,

[00:19:16] [SPEAKER_02]: shaves her head three, I said three days.

[00:19:19] [SPEAKER_02]: It wasn't three days. It was 16 days.

[00:19:21] [SPEAKER_02]: A lot of time. Yeah.

[00:19:23] [SPEAKER_03]: Three days of captivity.

[00:19:24] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah. And and this was after he'd already abused her

[00:19:29] [SPEAKER_05]: after she had run out of her own house with no shoes,

[00:19:34] [SPEAKER_05]: kind of left him in possession of the house and and stayed elsewhere.

[00:19:38] [SPEAKER_05]: And she went to the police and she said,

[00:19:41] [SPEAKER_05]: could you please escort me inside to get some things?

[00:19:45] [SPEAKER_05]: And they said, no, that's not our job, not our department.

[00:19:50] [SPEAKER_05]: Well, she went in to get some things and that's when he he

[00:19:53] [SPEAKER_05]: he had already abused us when he kidnapped her for the 16 days.

[00:19:57] [SPEAKER_05]: So yeah, yeah.

[00:19:59] [SPEAKER_02]: Ridiculous.

[00:20:00] [SPEAKER_02]: And one one her when she does manage to escape after her 16 day ordeal

[00:20:05] [SPEAKER_02]: with all of the evidence, like just her body is battered, bruised, like

[00:20:11] [SPEAKER_02]: she had the rape kit done, all of this stuff.

[00:20:14] [SPEAKER_02]: They asked her to testify at the court case,

[00:20:18] [SPEAKER_02]: but she was so traumatized and didn't want to be in the same room with him

[00:20:21] [SPEAKER_02]: that she was like, you have plenty of evidence.

[00:20:24] [SPEAKER_02]: Just, you know, prosecute them.

[00:20:26] [SPEAKER_02]: And the DA decided not to.

[00:20:29] [SPEAKER_02]: He decided to if I remember correctly, he did a plea deal,

[00:20:33] [SPEAKER_02]: which this man had did a kidnapping,

[00:20:36] [SPEAKER_02]: which should gift you about 25 to life.

[00:20:39] [SPEAKER_02]: But because they did a plea deal, he gets out in what was it?

[00:20:42] [SPEAKER_02]: Two years, I believe, or something like that.

[00:20:44] [SPEAKER_05]: Seven hundred and sorry, sorry.

[00:20:47] [SPEAKER_05]: Thirty months, thirty months with with credit for seven hundred

[00:20:50] [SPEAKER_05]: and twenty nine days served.

[00:20:52] [SPEAKER_05]: And that is for a combination of Amber and Jamie.

[00:20:57] [SPEAKER_05]: Right. Oh, well, we'll roll.

[00:20:59] [SPEAKER_05]: We'll roll the abuse by everything to get in here.

[00:21:03] [SPEAKER_05]: And you get 30 months.

[00:21:06] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah. And I mean, and the thing is, when Jamie finally escaped,

[00:21:10] [SPEAKER_03]: she was at first just terrified to tell the cops who did this

[00:21:15] [SPEAKER_03]: because the cops already failed her once before.

[00:21:17] [SPEAKER_03]: And she didn't want it to happen again.

[00:21:19] [SPEAKER_03]: So it just the the waves of ineptitude just keep rolling upon themselves

[00:21:24] [SPEAKER_03]: and leading to even more damage because she can't even she's not

[00:21:28] [SPEAKER_03]: comfortable pointing out her her attacker

[00:21:31] [SPEAKER_03]: because of the way that system failed her before.

[00:21:34] [SPEAKER_03]: It's just it's so heartbreaking that people have to go through that.

[00:21:38] [SPEAKER_03]: Just because of the the way that society has told us

[00:21:42] [SPEAKER_03]: that the policing is supposed to be, it just it's really godawful.

[00:21:46] [SPEAKER_03]: It really is. It's so bad.

[00:21:48] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah. And just dude, just walk in with her.

[00:21:52] [SPEAKER_05]: They took her to the front door and left.

[00:21:54] [SPEAKER_05]: You're already there.

[00:21:55] [SPEAKER_05]: Just walk in with her.

[00:21:57] [SPEAKER_05]: She'll pack a little bag.

[00:21:58] [SPEAKER_05]: Twenty minutes.

[00:21:59] [SPEAKER_03]: Hmm. Yeah.

[00:22:00] [SPEAKER_03]: Is that when they tried to like they served, they tried to serve him

[00:22:03] [SPEAKER_03]: and he just didn't answer the door and it's like, oh, yeah.

[00:22:05] [SPEAKER_03]: Oh, what you gonna do?

[00:22:07] [SPEAKER_02]: So that was for the two cases in Las Vegas.

[00:22:11] [SPEAKER_02]: And after that, Ben goes to Oregon and this is where he pops up

[00:22:15] [SPEAKER_02]: for Justine's case after Justine

[00:22:19] [SPEAKER_02]: and he gets away from the scene.

[00:22:21] [SPEAKER_02]: He goes on the run and he was on the run for like, was it a week?

[00:22:25] [SPEAKER_02]: I believe he was on the run a while.

[00:22:28] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah. This man is slippery.

[00:22:30] [SPEAKER_02]: And but like we said, he he ends up actually killing two people,

[00:22:35] [SPEAKER_02]: two men, two.

[00:22:36] [SPEAKER_02]: I think it's two men. I want to say to men.

[00:22:39] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah. Yeah.

[00:22:40] [SPEAKER_03]: Only gentleman in his caretaker.

[00:22:42] [SPEAKER_03]: Yes. Yes. Yeah.

[00:22:44] [SPEAKER_03]: Richard and Ron Rick and Ron.

[00:22:46] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah. Yeah.

[00:22:48] [SPEAKER_02]: Fucking hero.

[00:22:49] [SPEAKER_02]: So it's just like it was a very devastating story,

[00:22:54] [SPEAKER_02]: but it just got wilder and wilder.

[00:22:56] [SPEAKER_02]: I didn't think it could get any wilder.

[00:22:59] [SPEAKER_02]: And then it just got wilder at first.

[00:23:01] [SPEAKER_02]: I was like, well, at least all of his domestic violence victims are all alive.

[00:23:05] [SPEAKER_02]: But then Rick and Ron aren't because he was on the run and he took them out.

[00:23:09] [SPEAKER_02]: So it's just like it was a very

[00:23:12] [SPEAKER_02]: it was a very sad episode.

[00:23:13] [SPEAKER_02]: But again, I was like, yeah, this is the worst ex ever.

[00:23:17] [SPEAKER_02]: This this this is what this episode told you what you were in for

[00:23:22] [SPEAKER_02]: for this series.

[00:23:23] [SPEAKER_03]: And then it's like, it's like, man,

[00:23:25] [SPEAKER_03]: they really started probably with the worst one in the first episode.

[00:23:28] [SPEAKER_03]: Right. And it's like, I don't know.

[00:23:31] [SPEAKER_03]: He's got some competition.

[00:23:32] [SPEAKER_03]: He's got some competition out there.

[00:23:34] [SPEAKER_05]: On these episodes, did you like the little robot that went in under the house

[00:23:39] [SPEAKER_05]: because because the police couldn't get in safely because he was armed.

[00:23:44] [SPEAKER_05]: So they sent the little robot and the little robot goes

[00:23:46] [SPEAKER_05]: out of the house and looks at him and shines a light at him.

[00:23:50] [SPEAKER_05]: I mean, it was if it wasn't so horrible, it would have been kind of

[00:23:55] [SPEAKER_02]: amusing. It's cute. Yeah.

[00:23:57] [SPEAKER_02]: He went on the run for like seven days and ended up back under Justine.

[00:24:01] [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, they're not going to die.

[00:24:03] [SPEAKER_03]: I can see you know the crime that's like honestly, it is.

[00:24:07] [SPEAKER_03]: It's like Jay, like that.

[00:24:09] [SPEAKER_03]: As far as a little cute robot, I mean, what are A.I.

[00:24:13] [SPEAKER_03]: overlords uprise and overtake us?

[00:24:15] [SPEAKER_03]: Not going to appreciate us sitting in the robots to clean up our messes.

[00:24:18] [SPEAKER_03]: I just say that much.

[00:24:20] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, exactly.

[00:24:21] [SPEAKER_03]: And then and I mean, you know, he just kind of it's

[00:24:26] [SPEAKER_03]: he just ended it himself.

[00:24:27] [SPEAKER_03]: Basically, they they they,

[00:24:30] [SPEAKER_03]: you know, drug him into a corner basically, and then he just decided to

[00:24:34] [SPEAKER_03]: end it himself, which was like, I don't know.

[00:24:37] [SPEAKER_03]: How do you feel about that?

[00:24:38] [SPEAKER_02]: Cases like this, how that ends when people are on the run and stuff like that.

[00:24:43] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah. Can I just point out Chief Warren Hensman

[00:24:46] [SPEAKER_05]: from Grants Pass Police Department, may I quote,

[00:24:50] [SPEAKER_05]: it shouldn't be happening in Grants Pass, Oregon.

[00:24:53] [SPEAKER_05]: And I said, Warren, it should not be happening anywhere.

[00:24:57] [SPEAKER_05]: I mean, it's almost a trope of true crime where people say,

[00:24:59] [SPEAKER_05]: oh, that doesn't happen here.

[00:25:01] [SPEAKER_05]: It does. It did.

[00:25:02] [SPEAKER_05]: So stop saying it doesn't because it did.

[00:25:04] [SPEAKER_05]: Just a little note.

[00:25:06] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, just a little note.

[00:25:07] [SPEAKER_03]: I thought it was kind of interesting that they highlighted the fact

[00:25:10] [SPEAKER_03]: that he was using dating apps to try and like

[00:25:13] [SPEAKER_03]: get away and hole up somewhere and find.

[00:25:16] [SPEAKER_03]: I mean, listen, scary.

[00:25:19] [SPEAKER_03]: I'm a heterosexual male, but that that dude

[00:25:23] [SPEAKER_03]: was Ben, Ben, I can see.

[00:25:26] [SPEAKER_03]: I can see you picking them up like I get it.

[00:25:28] [SPEAKER_03]: I get it. I get how you would.

[00:25:31] [SPEAKER_05]: Like you could have been a pro wrestler.

[00:25:33] [SPEAKER_05]: He might have had an AC at Tom on Grindr.

[00:25:36] [SPEAKER_02]: Just maybe. Yeah.

[00:25:42] [SPEAKER_02]: So let's move on to episode two, which I was just like,

[00:25:46] [SPEAKER_02]: you've got to be kidding me.

[00:25:48] [SPEAKER_02]: Episode two is called Betrayed by the Badge.

[00:25:52] [SPEAKER_02]: Again, another understatement in betrayed by the badge,

[00:25:55] [SPEAKER_02]: a highly well educated, really smart entrepreneur, restaurant owner,

[00:26:02] [SPEAKER_02]: very like highly motivated woman named Simona, who is sitting here

[00:26:05] [SPEAKER_02]: telling us her story, talks about her ordeal with her boyfriend, Jerry.

[00:26:10] [SPEAKER_02]: When she meets Jerry, she originally thinks that he is an NYPD officer.

[00:26:15] [SPEAKER_02]: He presents himself as an NYPD detective.

[00:26:18] [SPEAKER_02]: And eventually it just doesn't work out and she breaks up with him.

[00:26:23] [SPEAKER_02]: Unfortunately, after she breaks up with him,

[00:26:24] [SPEAKER_02]: he rapes her and he is awaiting trial.

[00:26:29] [SPEAKER_02]: He's out on bail.

[00:26:31] [SPEAKER_02]: And all of a sudden, Simona finds herself framed for armed robbery.

[00:26:38] [SPEAKER_02]: Simona's bail is set for one million dollars, which she cannot pay.

[00:26:43] [SPEAKER_02]: Mind you, Jerry is out on bail.

[00:26:45] [SPEAKER_02]: His bail is about one hundred thousand dollars, something in that range.

[00:26:47] [SPEAKER_02]: He's out. She is now in jail because she cannot pay one million dollar bill.

[00:26:53] [SPEAKER_02]: And she awaits trial for seven months

[00:26:58] [SPEAKER_02]: where she loses her home, loses her business,

[00:27:02] [SPEAKER_02]: and the charges are eventually dropped.

[00:27:06] [SPEAKER_02]: Come to find out Jerry is behind her framing.

[00:27:11] [SPEAKER_02]: And once it is all exposed, Jerry ends up serving 25 years for the rape

[00:27:17] [SPEAKER_02]: and a consecutive seven years for framing Simona.

[00:27:22] [SPEAKER_02]: This episode was absolutely wild to me because I was just like,

[00:27:28] [SPEAKER_02]: it's one of the it's the it's the scariest thing you can think of

[00:27:32] [SPEAKER_02]: as an average American where you are just going about your day.

[00:27:36] [SPEAKER_02]: You are living your life.

[00:27:38] [SPEAKER_02]: You get arrested and you're like, I know I didn't do this.

[00:27:42] [SPEAKER_02]: So they will eventually let me go, not knowing.

[00:27:46] [SPEAKER_03]: And it's almost it's almost be kidnapped on the side of the road.

[00:27:49] [SPEAKER_03]: True. Not to be told.

[00:27:51] [SPEAKER_03]: What you're being arrested for until you're at the precinct.

[00:27:54] [SPEAKER_05]: That is. They didn't tell her at the precinct either.

[00:27:57] [SPEAKER_05]: They said to her, you know what you did?

[00:28:00] [SPEAKER_02]: I come on very, very just so stupid like

[00:28:05] [SPEAKER_02]: it's all you try to do.

[00:28:07] [SPEAKER_03]: You try to a seven year old.

[00:28:08] [SPEAKER_03]: You try to a seven year old.

[00:28:09] [SPEAKER_03]: You don't try that with a grown adult like being held in prison.

[00:28:13] [SPEAKER_05]: But legally, they're supposed to tell you what they're arresting you for.

[00:28:16] [SPEAKER_05]: Come on, police.

[00:28:18] [SPEAKER_05]: It's so bad.

[00:28:19] [SPEAKER_02]: It's ridiculous to me because you think

[00:28:22] [SPEAKER_02]: you kind of think that the true crime, like the really true

[00:28:25] [SPEAKER_02]: crummy part is just the normal like the boyfriend retaliation of it all.

[00:28:32] [SPEAKER_02]: Because of course, she finds out that he's not who he says he is.

[00:28:36] [SPEAKER_02]: And so they end up breaking up.

[00:28:39] [SPEAKER_02]: But then but then because he because he commits this rape against her

[00:28:43] [SPEAKER_02]: and he's awaiting trial, because of course, she told

[00:28:48] [SPEAKER_02]: him he goes on to frame her in such a way that it is

[00:28:53] [SPEAKER_02]: ironclad almost.

[00:28:54] [SPEAKER_02]: But it's not only that, it's not only the like the the the genius level

[00:28:59] [SPEAKER_02]: framing because we know we find out that he worked with the NYPD.

[00:29:05] [SPEAKER_02]: I forget as a CI.

[00:29:07] [SPEAKER_02]: He was a yes. Yes. Yes.

[00:29:10] [SPEAKER_02]: Yes. So he knew he knew exactly what buttons push.

[00:29:13] [SPEAKER_02]: But even more so, he knew where to frame her because he framed her

[00:29:18] [SPEAKER_02]: both in Queens and in Nassau County, Long Island.

[00:29:23] [SPEAKER_02]: The Queen's PD really didn't like the woman who was in the Queen's PD.

[00:29:28] [SPEAKER_02]: She she talked to Simone and she was like, this doesn't make sense.

[00:29:32] [SPEAKER_02]: Like anybody using their brain would have would have realized that some

[00:29:35] [SPEAKER_02]: like this didn't match Simone's

[00:29:38] [SPEAKER_02]: her M.O. or who she was.

[00:29:41] [SPEAKER_02]: But they had three car jackings, three armed robberies at gunpoint.

[00:29:46] [SPEAKER_02]: But not only were they armed robberies at gunpoint,

[00:29:49] [SPEAKER_02]: I think Jerry knew that he made it seem like she was framing.

[00:29:54] [SPEAKER_02]: She was acting as an officer when she was committing these armed

[00:29:57] [SPEAKER_02]: robberies, which added another layer to the charges

[00:30:02] [SPEAKER_02]: and actually is what put her in front of these horrendous cops

[00:30:06] [SPEAKER_02]: in the first place, because those cops are specifically for

[00:30:11] [SPEAKER_02]: police and person impersonation cases.

[00:30:14] [SPEAKER_02]: Jason, did you know there's a whole department for police impersonation?

[00:30:18] [SPEAKER_03]: I didn't.

[00:30:19] [SPEAKER_03]: But honestly, it makes sense when you really think about it,

[00:30:21] [SPEAKER_03]: because there are people that are doing that out there in the world.

[00:30:24] [SPEAKER_03]: And like, Mar, you mentioned this is a genius plot.

[00:30:27] [SPEAKER_03]: Unlike was it because like

[00:30:29] [SPEAKER_03]: just just a little bit of digging by anyone

[00:30:33] [SPEAKER_03]: that cared enough to do it would have found that,

[00:30:37] [SPEAKER_03]: oh, Jerry knows was named Rajiv.

[00:30:40] [SPEAKER_03]: I think it was the first person.

[00:30:42] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, the cousin called him like any bit.

[00:30:45] [SPEAKER_03]: And just a little bit, a little bit of a scratch would have been like,

[00:30:49] [SPEAKER_03]: Oh, there's a weird connection.

[00:30:51] [SPEAKER_03]: This lady that says that this man is framing her

[00:30:54] [SPEAKER_03]: is related to this guy that said that she did it.

[00:30:57] [SPEAKER_03]: Huh? Interesting.

[00:30:58] [SPEAKER_03]: And I mean, he's awaiting trial for her rape.

[00:31:01] [SPEAKER_03]: Hey, what?

[00:31:02] [SPEAKER_03]: Wouldn't you know?

[00:31:03] [SPEAKER_03]: And it's like, hey, we have surveillance footage of her at a casino.

[00:31:07] [SPEAKER_03]: And the time this crime was happening.

[00:31:11] [SPEAKER_03]: No, not her.

[00:31:12] [SPEAKER_03]: Just some other Indian person.

[00:31:14] [SPEAKER_03]: Forget it. Throw it out.

[00:31:15] [SPEAKER_02]: It's not clear enough.

[00:31:17] [SPEAKER_03]: What? Give me a break.

[00:31:19] [SPEAKER_03]: Her cell phone was peeing off the towers near the casino.

[00:31:23] [SPEAKER_03]: No, definitely.

[00:31:25] [SPEAKER_05]: So her phone, though, just was her.

[00:31:26] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah. Someone else had her phone.

[00:31:27] [SPEAKER_03]: This was an ingenious plot.

[00:31:30] [SPEAKER_03]: Come on.

[00:31:31] [SPEAKER_02]: Give me a break.

[00:31:33] [SPEAKER_02]: Very true to two other ways where we're

[00:31:37] [SPEAKER_02]: easily linked to Jerry easily anybody.

[00:31:40] [SPEAKER_03]: I think who was it was?

[00:31:42] [SPEAKER_03]: It was her attorney was like, I was trying to get phone records

[00:31:46] [SPEAKER_03]: that were cross reference Jerry with any of these people.

[00:31:49] [SPEAKER_03]: But I was denied that.

[00:31:51] [SPEAKER_03]: Why? Why?

[00:31:52] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, it's such an easy thing to do to see if there's any cross

[00:31:57] [SPEAKER_03]: offices and we can use that to defend the Simona.

[00:31:59] [SPEAKER_03]: But no, it was it was our I was like pulling my hair out.

[00:32:04] [SPEAKER_03]: It was like, come on.

[00:32:05] [SPEAKER_03]: Give me a break.

[00:32:05] [SPEAKER_05]: Like seriously frightening because her attorney is Anthony Grandinette

[00:32:11] [SPEAKER_05]: presumably has a price.

[00:32:13] [SPEAKER_05]: You know, you need to pay money for an attorney of of his stature.

[00:32:18] [SPEAKER_05]: And he's fighting for seven months to get her out.

[00:32:22] [SPEAKER_05]: And she is in that jail losing her house

[00:32:26] [SPEAKER_05]: because because she the mortgage wasn't being paid, losing her business.

[00:32:29] [SPEAKER_05]: Her niece had to had to close up the business.

[00:32:31] [SPEAKER_05]: They couldn't keep going without her missing out on seven months

[00:32:34] [SPEAKER_05]: with her young daughter.

[00:32:36] [SPEAKER_05]: That's with a price I'm saying pricey.

[00:32:39] [SPEAKER_05]: He would have attorney prices fighting for you every inch of the of the way.

[00:32:44] [SPEAKER_05]: And you're you're still in there.

[00:32:46] [SPEAKER_05]: So I don't know who helps you if you don't have that behind you.

[00:32:51] [SPEAKER_05]: I'm surprised that the co-conspirators didn't turn him in

[00:32:54] [SPEAKER_05]: because he promised them $20,000 and didn't pay them $20,000 each.

[00:32:59] [SPEAKER_05]: Well, we also know them paid that to threaten them.

[00:33:02] [SPEAKER_03]: So, I mean, yeah, that's true.

[00:33:03] [SPEAKER_02]: Yes, that is.

[00:33:05] [SPEAKER_02]: You're seeing what he's going through to get this one lady.

[00:33:07] [SPEAKER_02]: I you know, I wouldn't want to.

[00:33:09] [SPEAKER_03]: I wouldn't want to mess with him at all.

[00:33:12] [SPEAKER_03]: And like, what did you guys think of the of the ex,

[00:33:16] [SPEAKER_03]: the ex friend that was enveloped in shadows,

[00:33:19] [SPEAKER_03]: which if I knew this expert, I'd be like, that's definitely,

[00:33:23] [SPEAKER_03]: you know, Barry, like, yeah, it seems like someone that has such a voice.

[00:33:29] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, it's such a distinctive voice and they didn't do

[00:33:31] [SPEAKER_03]: they didn't cover him up that well.

[00:33:33] [SPEAKER_03]: It was just like, hey, that's fair.

[00:33:36] [SPEAKER_03]: I know him.

[00:33:37] [SPEAKER_03]: Like it was a bad job of hiding his his identity.

[00:33:40] [SPEAKER_02]: He was like, I don't want to be associated with this guy.

[00:33:43] [SPEAKER_02]: It was very it was very interesting.

[00:33:46] [SPEAKER_05]: But we had an actor at this point.

[00:33:49] [SPEAKER_05]: Get an actor, get, you know,

[00:33:51] [SPEAKER_05]: record the interview with the anonymous friend and then get an actor to recreate.

[00:33:54] [SPEAKER_03]: That was my other thing I wanted to ask.

[00:33:56] [SPEAKER_03]: But I want to ask you guys now, I don't know if this is

[00:33:59] [SPEAKER_03]: because the worst roommate ever.

[00:34:00] [SPEAKER_03]: You guys probably watched it.

[00:34:02] [SPEAKER_03]: The cartoons. What?

[00:34:04] [SPEAKER_02]: Oh, right.

[00:34:04] [SPEAKER_02]: Oh, I like those.

[00:34:06] [SPEAKER_02]: I love the cartoon so much.

[00:34:09] [SPEAKER_03]: I you know, I could not get with it.

[00:34:11] [SPEAKER_03]: I could not get with it.

[00:34:12] [SPEAKER_03]: Mostly because most of the time they have the cartoons

[00:34:15] [SPEAKER_03]: doing the most benign stuff.

[00:34:16] [SPEAKER_03]: I'm like, why even bother

[00:34:18] [SPEAKER_03]: with the animation budget to animate just some of this stuff?

[00:34:23] [SPEAKER_03]: It was so odd to me.

[00:34:25] [SPEAKER_03]: And it was it was it was at one time

[00:34:29] [SPEAKER_03]: like kind of amateurish cartooning, but you could tell that

[00:34:32] [SPEAKER_03]: they had professional flair.

[00:34:33] [SPEAKER_03]: It was bare bones animation.

[00:34:35] [SPEAKER_03]: It was so weird to me to have

[00:34:39] [SPEAKER_03]: cartoon animations, especially, you know, contributed to these different cases.

[00:34:44] [SPEAKER_03]: And then the things they had some of them doing was just the most like

[00:34:47] [SPEAKER_03]: random, weird everyday stuff.

[00:34:49] [SPEAKER_03]: It really kind of freaked me out at some points.

[00:34:51] [SPEAKER_03]: It threw me off a little bit. I will say that.

[00:34:54] [SPEAKER_02]: That's what I like the cartoons because I think there's a sinister

[00:34:57] [SPEAKER_02]: to that you can imbue that certain like reenactment

[00:35:02] [SPEAKER_02]: just don't get across that well, like especially in in worst roommate ever.

[00:35:08] [SPEAKER_02]: Some of the animations there were just so hilariously funny

[00:35:11] [SPEAKER_02]: because they would animate the most sinister stuff.

[00:35:15] [SPEAKER_02]: They're like, he would just come into my room

[00:35:17] [SPEAKER_02]: and knock a vase over staring me directly in the face.

[00:35:21] [SPEAKER_02]: They would be like the funniest thing.

[00:35:25] [SPEAKER_02]: Like I would like I would be annoyed if that was reenacted.

[00:35:28] [SPEAKER_02]: But because it's animated, it's it's like funny, but it's also like

[00:35:33] [SPEAKER_02]: still sinister, like they can do the like the the angry eyebrows on the

[00:35:38] [SPEAKER_02]: on the animation and is still cool.

[00:35:41] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, I mean, I get that when in the

[00:35:44] [SPEAKER_03]: was that the third one, the third one with Rosa and

[00:35:48] [SPEAKER_03]: Greg when they're doing the baton thing.

[00:35:51] [SPEAKER_00]: And it's like that.

[00:35:53] [SPEAKER_03]: I will give you that.

[00:35:54] [SPEAKER_03]: That one was like, well, this is weird to see animated.

[00:35:56] [SPEAKER_03]: So I don't think that it was just some of the randomness

[00:35:59] [SPEAKER_03]: that they had, they animate.

[00:36:00] [SPEAKER_03]: I was like, why did you animate that?

[00:36:02] [SPEAKER_03]: Why did you take a time to?

[00:36:03] [SPEAKER_02]: I really want to know how they decide which scene. Yeah.

[00:36:07] [SPEAKER_02]: Like they just like given out of context scene and they animate this

[00:36:11] [SPEAKER_02]: or do they have them like animate the whole story

[00:36:13] [SPEAKER_02]: and then they can choose what scenes.

[00:36:16] [SPEAKER_05]: I think one of the interesting things about

[00:36:19] [SPEAKER_05]: Anonymous is that he and it is it's a he.

[00:36:24] [SPEAKER_05]: It's clearly Barry, right?

[00:36:26] [SPEAKER_05]: He starts to suspect his friend Jerry,

[00:36:30] [SPEAKER_05]: partly because it's like, isn't that your cousin that says

[00:36:34] [SPEAKER_05]: that he was held up by an impersonated officer with a gun?

[00:36:39] [SPEAKER_05]: Anonymous goes to the cousin and says, what's what's going on?

[00:36:43] [SPEAKER_05]: What are you doing?

[00:36:44] [SPEAKER_05]: Do you want to really be doing this with Jerry?

[00:36:47] [SPEAKER_05]: Next thing, Anonymous is charged with witness tampering.

[00:36:51] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, that was insane.

[00:36:53] [SPEAKER_03]: I was like, Jerry, no bones, no bones.

[00:36:57] [SPEAKER_03]: No, he will.

[00:36:58] [SPEAKER_03]: He'll take anyone out.

[00:37:00] [SPEAKER_03]: And at first I was like,

[00:37:01] [SPEAKER_03]: I was like, anonymous seems like kind of a scummy kind of friend guy.

[00:37:05] [SPEAKER_03]: But then to find out that he was that he was like that,

[00:37:08] [SPEAKER_03]: he also was it was thrown under the bus with.

[00:37:11] [SPEAKER_03]: Simone was an interesting twist for sure.

[00:37:13] [SPEAKER_03]: It was it was a crazy swerve in the whole story.

[00:37:17] [SPEAKER_02]: He tried to, you know, you know,

[00:37:20] [SPEAKER_03]: and now I don't know.

[00:37:21] [SPEAKER_03]: He told someone else to the right thing.

[00:37:23] [SPEAKER_03]: He was like, hey, I know that someone didn't do this.

[00:37:27] [SPEAKER_03]: I'm not going to go to the cops and tell them what I know.

[00:37:28] [SPEAKER_03]: I'm just going to tell you, you should go to the cops,

[00:37:30] [SPEAKER_03]: so would you know?

[00:37:31] [SPEAKER_03]: And then that got him on Jerry's like, you know, radar.

[00:37:35] [SPEAKER_03]: And then he got, you know,

[00:37:37] [SPEAKER_03]: to have him charged with witness tampering was like, what?

[00:37:42] [SPEAKER_02]: And to the.

[00:37:44] [SPEAKER_02]: No, it was a fellow in a felony case.

[00:37:47] [SPEAKER_02]: So it was more like a big deal.

[00:37:50] [SPEAKER_03]: Basically just on Jerry's say so that Jerry,

[00:37:53] [SPEAKER_03]: who is just a former CIA or whatever, has that much pull.

[00:37:58] [SPEAKER_02]: Well, let's say that's not county.

[00:38:01] [SPEAKER_05]: In Nassau County, let's not forget.

[00:38:02] [SPEAKER_05]: Simone is sitting there not knowing what she's being arrested for.

[00:38:06] [SPEAKER_05]: And she sees a folder that has Jerry's photograph in it

[00:38:11] [SPEAKER_05]: and she asks if it's anything to do with him.

[00:38:13] [SPEAKER_05]: And they say, no.

[00:38:15] [SPEAKER_05]: What how do they if they don't think Jerry's involved,

[00:38:18] [SPEAKER_05]: how do they have that photograph?

[00:38:20] [SPEAKER_05]: That was never that's what I wanted Anthony, the killer attorney to go after.

[00:38:25] [SPEAKER_05]: It's like, what was in that folder?

[00:38:26] [SPEAKER_05]: And how come you had it on that first day when you were in?

[00:38:30] [SPEAKER_03]: I do wonder if they're not allowed to tell us because she took a she she

[00:38:35] [SPEAKER_03]: she settled the case with with was a Nassau County and that

[00:38:40] [SPEAKER_03]: was I'm wondering if that details are kind of like, you know,

[00:38:45] [SPEAKER_03]: we're not allowed to go too much into that.

[00:38:47] [SPEAKER_05]: Well, true. I mean, she got two million dollars seven years later.

[00:38:52] [SPEAKER_05]: She's satisfied, but it's it's.

[00:38:55] [SPEAKER_02]: I can't believe that.

[00:38:56] [SPEAKER_02]: Like her whole life was ruined because she had to sit seven months in jail,

[00:39:00] [SPEAKER_02]: losing her family at home, her restaurant that she basically,

[00:39:04] [SPEAKER_02]: you know, she built from the ground up.

[00:39:06] [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, it was a franchise, but still, you know what I'm saying?

[00:39:09] [SPEAKER_02]: And it was just it just ridiculous.

[00:39:11] [SPEAKER_05]: Holding down a high powered finance job.

[00:39:14] [SPEAKER_05]: Yes, yes. Yes.

[00:39:16] [SPEAKER_03]: Yes. Yes.

[00:39:16] [SPEAKER_03]: Simone is a boss with a capital B.

[00:39:19] [SPEAKER_03]: Such a boss. I love her.

[00:39:21] [SPEAKER_03]: And and like because she had the I mean, listen,

[00:39:25] [SPEAKER_03]: no one deserves what happened to Simone, none of it.

[00:39:29] [SPEAKER_03]: But if I'm like in for this to happen to her,

[00:39:33] [SPEAKER_03]: for her, just because she had the audacity to call this man out for

[00:39:37] [SPEAKER_03]: having a whole second wife and children while he's dating her.

[00:39:41] [SPEAKER_03]: And then he decides to rape her like.

[00:39:45] [SPEAKER_03]: And then he just out of this

[00:39:47] [SPEAKER_03]: because he has this paranoia that she's going to,

[00:39:50] [SPEAKER_03]: I don't know, report him or something like for cheating on his wife

[00:39:54] [SPEAKER_03]: to do this to her is is nuts on a whole other level.

[00:39:57] [SPEAKER_05]: So if you've ever listened, if you've ever,

[00:40:00] [SPEAKER_05]: I mean, Alice is far too compassionate to have ever thought this.

[00:40:04] [SPEAKER_05]: But if you ever catch somebody else saying,

[00:40:06] [SPEAKER_05]: well, why don't they report the rapes?

[00:40:09] [SPEAKER_02]: Dot dot dot. Exactly.

[00:40:12] [SPEAKER_02]: It's just so this story just to me was I my head was going to explode.

[00:40:19] [SPEAKER_02]: I was like, I was like, how are they saying that?

[00:40:21] [SPEAKER_02]: Yes, there's this woman.

[00:40:23] [SPEAKER_02]: She stuck me up.

[00:40:24] [SPEAKER_02]: She was an Indian lady.

[00:40:26] [SPEAKER_02]: This is her. They had the photo lineup.

[00:40:29] [SPEAKER_02]: They had her.

[00:40:29] [SPEAKER_02]: They did the partial license plate at the first scene of the robbery.

[00:40:34] [SPEAKER_02]: There's the full the full license plate at the second scene or whatever.

[00:40:39] [SPEAKER_02]: Like he really planned this out and it was so scary.

[00:40:44] [SPEAKER_02]: Dear gentle listener, go still go watch this

[00:40:47] [SPEAKER_02]: because it's so hard to explain, like just the

[00:40:51] [SPEAKER_02]: the time it took for them to plan all of this

[00:40:54] [SPEAKER_02]: and how dumb Nassau PD had to be to believe all of it.

[00:40:59] [SPEAKER_02]: Dumb willfully dumb, willfully dumb. Exactly.

[00:41:02] [SPEAKER_02]: They they they just wanted to wrap that case up with the bow.

[00:41:05] [SPEAKER_02]: They were handled handed all this false evidence.

[00:41:08] [SPEAKER_02]: Luckily, Jerry's girlfriend, his new girlfriend, Sophia Lewis,

[00:41:13] [SPEAKER_02]: decided to go to the D.A., go to the police and expose the scheme

[00:41:17] [SPEAKER_02]: because she wasn't because she was like starting to get

[00:41:20] [SPEAKER_02]: like she started to feel guilty about what was happening to Simona, I believe.

[00:41:25] [SPEAKER_05]: Yes, he had asked her to be a false witness

[00:41:30] [SPEAKER_05]: and she said she wouldn't, but she kind of let it happen.

[00:41:34] [SPEAKER_02]: She didn't.

[00:41:35] [SPEAKER_02]: So she didn't impersonate Simona in these robberies, didn't they?

[00:41:38] [SPEAKER_02]: Do they actually act these robberies out or no?

[00:41:41] [SPEAKER_03]: They they literally had someone sit in their car and say they were robbed.

[00:41:44] [SPEAKER_03]: Like no fake robbery to be had.

[00:41:47] [SPEAKER_03]: I think she I think she had mentioned that she was in the car

[00:41:49] [SPEAKER_03]: at one point where she did when Jerry was trying to talk

[00:41:53] [SPEAKER_03]: Rajiv into doing that.

[00:41:54] [SPEAKER_03]: Oh, OK. And then she was like, yeah.

[00:41:57] [SPEAKER_03]: And then she's like, I don't want to hear any more about it.

[00:42:00] [SPEAKER_03]: I think like Mari said, I think her conscience maybe got the better of her.

[00:42:03] [SPEAKER_03]: Just just looking at my notes and it's like

[00:42:08] [SPEAKER_03]: after every after every timeline check they give us.

[00:42:11] [SPEAKER_03]: And I'm like, after a hundred forty one days in jail,

[00:42:15] [SPEAKER_03]: many exclamation points like how was she sitting in jail for this long?

[00:42:20] [SPEAKER_03]: After a hundred sixty two days in jail, exclamation point is crazy.

[00:42:25] [SPEAKER_02]: It feels like it.

[00:42:26] [SPEAKER_02]: I just wanted to be like capitalism, because how was she sitting in jail

[00:42:30] [SPEAKER_02]: longer for armed robbery

[00:42:33] [SPEAKER_02]: and then he is for a attempted kidnapping and rape? Like.

[00:42:39] [SPEAKER_03]: I it's the fact that she's the fact that she's in

[00:42:42] [SPEAKER_03]: in jail at all with these the flimsiest evidence against her

[00:42:48] [SPEAKER_03]: is is a crime in and of itself.

[00:42:52] [SPEAKER_05]: You know, here, I think, Jason, what did you find this?

[00:42:55] [SPEAKER_05]: These animations acceptable.

[00:42:57] [SPEAKER_05]: I found the animations of her in the jail cell very moving,

[00:43:02] [SPEAKER_05]: you know, very nicely done, very moving.

[00:43:04] [SPEAKER_05]: It was sad. It was. Yeah.

[00:43:07] [SPEAKER_03]: But it was sad anyway.

[00:43:08] [SPEAKER_03]: It was effective. Yeah, it was effective.

[00:43:10] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, effective. Yeah.

[00:43:12] [SPEAKER_02]: Man. OK.

[00:43:14] [SPEAKER_02]: We're going to get through these last two really quickly.

[00:43:17] [SPEAKER_02]: Really quickly.

[00:43:18] [SPEAKER_03]: Well, so number three, number three is freaking like.

[00:43:22] [SPEAKER_03]: I just.

[00:43:25] [SPEAKER_02]: I'm lost for words in episode three, killing for custody.

[00:43:31] [SPEAKER_02]: Eric Hill has to fight hard for shared custody of his daughter

[00:43:34] [SPEAKER_02]: in a revenge plot to force Eric to give up his parental rights.

[00:43:39] [SPEAKER_02]: His ex wife, Rosa and her mother may kill

[00:43:43] [SPEAKER_02]: Eric's grandmother, Sally, and tase and beat Eric and threaten him with a gun.

[00:43:49] [SPEAKER_02]: Oh, this took me out to a Google search of how to murder

[00:43:53] [SPEAKER_02]: is found on Rosa's computer and they both receive life sentences for killing Sally.

[00:44:00] [SPEAKER_02]: Say, stupid.

[00:44:02] [SPEAKER_02]: I know.

[00:44:04] [SPEAKER_02]: He's a stupid.

[00:44:05] [SPEAKER_02]: What?

[00:44:07] [SPEAKER_02]: This is like this was was just ridiculous

[00:44:10] [SPEAKER_02]: on so many levels because Eric, Eric and Rosa, they have this beautiful daughter.

[00:44:15] [SPEAKER_02]: They can't make it work, but they're in this really bad custody battle.

[00:44:22] [SPEAKER_02]: But everything that Rosa did made the custody for her worse.

[00:44:27] [SPEAKER_02]: Like they literally because Eric did what you're supposed to do.

[00:44:30] [SPEAKER_02]: Men out there who complain about how custody agreements are fair for men.

[00:44:34] [SPEAKER_02]: All you got to do is take take the woman to court.

[00:44:37] [SPEAKER_02]: You will more than likely get 50 50 custody unless you are a horrible person.

[00:44:42] [SPEAKER_02]: And that's exactly what happened.

[00:44:43] [SPEAKER_02]: Eric and Rosa are given 50 50 custody of their daughter.

[00:44:47] [SPEAKER_02]: But because Rosa didn't want that

[00:44:50] [SPEAKER_02]: and she kept doing increasingly horribly stupid things.

[00:44:54] [SPEAKER_03]: And she's insane.

[00:44:55] [SPEAKER_03]: Don't forget that part.

[00:44:56] [SPEAKER_02]: She's right.

[00:44:58] [SPEAKER_02]: She kept losing more and more custody of their daughter.

[00:45:02] [SPEAKER_02]: What happened, Sarah?

[00:45:04] [SPEAKER_05]: Well, honeymoon.

[00:45:06] [SPEAKER_05]: She punches him.

[00:45:08] [SPEAKER_05]: And in the same way that I say, ladies,

[00:45:10] [SPEAKER_05]: the first slap is the only slap you need to go.

[00:45:13] [SPEAKER_05]: Well, you don't need to get it.

[00:45:16] [SPEAKER_05]: Eric, she punched you on your honeymoon.

[00:45:19] [SPEAKER_05]: Get out of there.

[00:45:21] [SPEAKER_05]: But, you know, he's a he's a man who sort of couldn't believe his luck

[00:45:26] [SPEAKER_05]: to be marrying this this beautiful young woman.

[00:45:30] [SPEAKER_05]: He worked with May.

[00:45:31] [SPEAKER_05]: May said, Oh, why don't you meet my daughter?

[00:45:34] [SPEAKER_05]: I think he had the look in the in the happy times

[00:45:37] [SPEAKER_05]: of a man who couldn't believe his luck.

[00:45:40] [SPEAKER_05]: And eventually it got to the point she she was using the isolation.

[00:45:44] [SPEAKER_05]: She isolated Eric from his friends and family.

[00:45:47] [SPEAKER_05]: She was controlling money.

[00:45:49] [SPEAKER_05]: She was she was controlling phone.

[00:45:50] [SPEAKER_05]: She was controlling communication.

[00:45:52] [SPEAKER_05]: This is the abuse's playbook.

[00:45:54] [SPEAKER_05]: And Eric himself says it got scary going home.

[00:45:59] [SPEAKER_05]: And then when they separated, she wanted nothing more to do with with him.

[00:46:03] [SPEAKER_05]: She wanted the baby 100 percent.

[00:46:05] [SPEAKER_05]: And as you say, Mary, everything she did gave him more and more and more custody.

[00:46:10] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, yeah. She she tried.

[00:46:14] [SPEAKER_02]: She reported a false allegation of sexual child molestation

[00:46:17] [SPEAKER_02]: against him, which pissed me off.

[00:46:20] [SPEAKER_02]: And luckily, they found it to be untrue.

[00:46:23] [SPEAKER_02]: And because she did something so stupid as that, it went from 50 50.

[00:46:27] [SPEAKER_02]: He said at one point, it was 60 40 to the point where he got

[00:46:31] [SPEAKER_02]: 85 percent custody and 100 percent.

[00:46:34] [SPEAKER_02]: Eighty 85 percent physical custody and 100 percent legal custody of their daughter.

[00:46:41] [SPEAKER_02]: And like.

[00:46:44] [SPEAKER_02]: Jason, what the the contrast of these like it's like these

[00:46:47] [SPEAKER_02]: these two small Asian women fighting this this man.

[00:46:54] [SPEAKER_05]: He's a large man. He's you know, he's a nice beautiful.

[00:46:58] [SPEAKER_05]: He's size beautiful, but he's also very tall, very tall.

[00:47:02] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, he's a big guy.

[00:47:03] [SPEAKER_03]: He's a big guy in every sense of the word. I mean,

[00:47:07] [SPEAKER_03]: and you mentioned the you know, the custody thing.

[00:47:09] [SPEAKER_03]: And when she falsely accused some of the sexually abused their daughter,

[00:47:12] [SPEAKER_03]: how she lost more and more custody, I think after that,

[00:47:14] [SPEAKER_03]: you should lose all the custody because what are you what else

[00:47:16] [SPEAKER_03]: are you willing to do to perpetrate this lie,

[00:47:20] [SPEAKER_03]: which would scare me if she's if this person is with my child alone

[00:47:24] [SPEAKER_03]: at any point. But that being said, the way they the way they portray

[00:47:28] [SPEAKER_03]: the scene of, you know, going into the grandmother's house

[00:47:32] [SPEAKER_03]: and not finding her and then just just the

[00:47:36] [SPEAKER_03]: like we're in a like we're in a scripted movie.

[00:47:39] [SPEAKER_03]: The twist of like there is May just standing there.

[00:47:44] [SPEAKER_03]: And then I turn around and there's Rosa in a black trench coat

[00:47:47] [SPEAKER_03]: with a stun gun. I'm like, what?

[00:47:49] [SPEAKER_03]: What? What have I just walked into?

[00:47:51] [SPEAKER_03]: What happened here?

[00:47:52] [SPEAKER_03]: Did we just change shows all of a sudden?

[00:47:54] [SPEAKER_03]: Is Netflix jump and put me into a scripted movie or show?

[00:47:59] [SPEAKER_03]: Was insane.

[00:48:00] [SPEAKER_03]: And the way the way we start, when we enter,

[00:48:02] [SPEAKER_03]: when we introduce Grandma Sally, I'm like, no,

[00:48:06] [SPEAKER_02]: not grandma Sally.

[00:48:08] [SPEAKER_03]: That's tall.

[00:48:09] [SPEAKER_03]: Don't do it is the grandma Sally.

[00:48:11] [SPEAKER_03]: And we can't tell me how great grandma Sally was

[00:48:14] [SPEAKER_03]: and how much she loved, loved her granddaughter

[00:48:18] [SPEAKER_03]: and her great and her grandson.

[00:48:20] [SPEAKER_03]: Oh, no, not this.

[00:48:21] [SPEAKER_03]: Not this. And then this Sally's not in the house.

[00:48:24] [SPEAKER_03]: Like, no, no, not this.

[00:48:26] [SPEAKER_05]: With her boyfriend, with her boyfriend for 10 years.

[00:48:30] [SPEAKER_05]: Let's go closer.

[00:48:31] [SPEAKER_05]: Four o'clock every day for that, for their cocktail hour.

[00:48:34] [SPEAKER_05]: And they have a cocktail hour.

[00:48:36] [SPEAKER_05]: Unless he's actually over there.

[00:48:37] [SPEAKER_05]: Oh, my God.

[00:48:38] [SPEAKER_03]: Those voicemails are heartbreaking.

[00:48:40] [SPEAKER_03]: Like it's four o'clock.

[00:48:42] [SPEAKER_03]: Wonder where you are.

[00:48:43] [SPEAKER_03]: It's four fifteen. What's up?

[00:48:45] [SPEAKER_03]: And the fact that they were such on clockwork that he got worried

[00:48:48] [SPEAKER_03]: after, you know, 10 minutes.

[00:48:50] [SPEAKER_03]: This tells you the love they have for each other and how much they

[00:48:53] [SPEAKER_03]: depended on those phone calls every day.

[00:48:55] [SPEAKER_03]: And just to hear the hurt, his voice was so terrible.

[00:48:59] [SPEAKER_03]: And then to find out how terrible her death was,

[00:49:04] [SPEAKER_03]: was just literally heartbreaking.

[00:49:07] [SPEAKER_03]: And yeah, that scene I was described with May and Rosa

[00:49:11] [SPEAKER_03]: beating him with a baton, hitting with a stun gun

[00:49:14] [SPEAKER_03]: and just threatening him with a gun was like was way, way, way

[00:49:18] [SPEAKER_03]: over the top and not what I was expecting at all.

[00:49:21] [SPEAKER_02]: It was so wild.

[00:49:22] [SPEAKER_02]: Like if he hadn't gone in there with Lester's kids,

[00:49:27] [SPEAKER_02]: oh, it was Lester's son and wife, I believe. Right.

[00:49:30] [SPEAKER_03]: His son-in-law and Lester's daughter.

[00:49:32] [SPEAKER_03]: Because they're a married couple. Yeah.

[00:49:34] [SPEAKER_02]: OK. Yes. Yeah. OK.

[00:49:35] [SPEAKER_02]: Yes. And they stayed downstairs while Eric and his daughter went upstairs.

[00:49:40] [SPEAKER_02]: That's when they're met by them like.

[00:49:42] [SPEAKER_02]: And I hate to say it, the animations did just make it.

[00:49:45] [SPEAKER_02]: It made something so terrible, kind of funny, because like,

[00:49:48] [SPEAKER_02]: why are these two women just wailing on him?

[00:49:51] [SPEAKER_02]: And he's like and he's saying like he starts fighting back

[00:49:55] [SPEAKER_02]: and the animation shows him like kicking at him.

[00:49:57] [SPEAKER_02]: He's like, like he's like trying to kick one of them.

[00:50:00] [SPEAKER_02]: And and he's so lucky that they they left.

[00:50:03] [SPEAKER_02]: I first I was like, why didn't you all just like go and help him?

[00:50:06] [SPEAKER_03]: But I get it. Like they got guns in here.

[00:50:10] [SPEAKER_03]: I'm out. I don't know.

[00:50:12] [SPEAKER_03]: You like that, Eric?

[00:50:14] [SPEAKER_03]: You are you are my you are my father's girlfriend's grandson.

[00:50:18] [SPEAKER_03]: I don't know. You like that. We're not family.

[00:50:20] [SPEAKER_03]: So they retreated from the house.

[00:50:22] [SPEAKER_03]: They left. They're out.

[00:50:24] [SPEAKER_03]: But it's good that they were there because they can witness the fact that,

[00:50:27] [SPEAKER_03]: yes, Eric was coming to check on his grandma because something was up

[00:50:31] [SPEAKER_03]: and they knew they knew that Eric went in there with like good intentions.

[00:50:34] [SPEAKER_03]: He didn't go in there to confront Rosa or May.

[00:50:37] [SPEAKER_03]: He was just as surprised as everyone else to find they were there.

[00:50:40] [SPEAKER_05]: The police decide again because he gets a good knocking on May.

[00:50:45] [SPEAKER_05]: We had a lot of photographs.

[00:50:47] [SPEAKER_05]: And I started swinging.

[00:50:50] [SPEAKER_03]: He's like, I'm swinging.

[00:50:51] [SPEAKER_03]: And I know someone I hit people as I know.

[00:50:56] [SPEAKER_03]: Oh, that wasn't funny.

[00:50:57] [SPEAKER_05]: I mean, what what that what that did do like that

[00:51:00] [SPEAKER_05]: detailed and quite extensive description of the attack on Eric.

[00:51:05] [SPEAKER_05]: It does make you think, oh, Sally, but Sally put up a fight.

[00:51:10] [SPEAKER_05]: And I thought, OK, good on you, Sally.

[00:51:12] [SPEAKER_05]: But oh, terrible.

[00:51:13] [SPEAKER_05]: And where they put her is so.

[00:51:16] [SPEAKER_05]: Oh, yeah.

[00:51:18] [SPEAKER_03]: And then they show the real photo of her.

[00:51:20] [SPEAKER_03]: No, no.

[00:51:21] [SPEAKER_03]: I was like, no, no, no, no.

[00:51:22] [SPEAKER_03]: You should have done that.

[00:51:24] [SPEAKER_05]: They put a head first into a into a into a rubbish bin.

[00:51:27] [SPEAKER_02]: It's just like, yeah, it was.

[00:51:30] [SPEAKER_02]: And come to find out like they had.

[00:51:32] [SPEAKER_02]: Oh my God.

[00:51:33] [SPEAKER_02]: There the black backpack that they found outside of the thing.

[00:51:36] [SPEAKER_02]: It was a stereotypical robbery kidnap kid had

[00:51:40] [SPEAKER_02]: had a ninja throwing star glass breaker and had a rope

[00:51:45] [SPEAKER_05]: samurai sword, extra ammunition.

[00:51:48] [SPEAKER_05]: No, and they're like, I don't know.

[00:51:50] [SPEAKER_05]: I don't know.

[00:51:52] [SPEAKER_03]: We still know there's like no.

[00:51:53] [SPEAKER_03]: Happen here.

[00:51:53] [SPEAKER_03]: Like we still got to find more evidence like Julia.

[00:51:57] [SPEAKER_03]: Like, yeah, like y'all.

[00:51:58] [SPEAKER_03]: Y'all.

[00:51:58] [SPEAKER_03]: I said, Samona also other like non non real stuff.

[00:52:03] [SPEAKER_03]: But now you're like, hmm, I still don't know.

[00:52:05] [SPEAKER_03]: We still need more. Let's check their Google history.

[00:52:07] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.

[00:52:08] [SPEAKER_05]: I mean, if you are police arriving on a chaotic scene

[00:52:12] [SPEAKER_05]: and there is a large white man

[00:52:16] [SPEAKER_05]: and two very small Asian ladies,

[00:52:19] [SPEAKER_05]: one of whom is bleeding profusely from a head wound.

[00:52:23] [SPEAKER_05]: He's also bleeding.

[00:52:25] [SPEAKER_05]: Arrest them all would be what I would say.

[00:52:26] [SPEAKER_05]: Well, that's what they do.

[00:52:27] [SPEAKER_05]: They put them all in different cars with them all in different cars.

[00:52:32] [SPEAKER_05]: Eric, so my old Eric is the mildest of mild mild.

[00:52:36] [SPEAKER_05]: He's he's a mild man.

[00:52:38] [SPEAKER_05]: Eric, we hope you're doing really well with your daughter.

[00:52:41] [SPEAKER_03]: But when they when they describe the scene of how they got there

[00:52:45] [SPEAKER_03]: and what the scene was, and Eric is all jumpy because he's

[00:52:49] [SPEAKER_03]: the man who's literally trying to dodge the person with a gun

[00:52:51] [SPEAKER_03]: that y'all don't see yet.

[00:52:53] [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.

[00:52:55] [SPEAKER_03]: They didn't.

[00:52:57] [SPEAKER_03]: Eric, it takes Eric.

[00:52:58] [SPEAKER_05]: So he takes twice.

[00:53:00] [SPEAKER_05]: They say.

[00:53:02] [SPEAKER_05]: Right now.

[00:53:03] [SPEAKER_05]: And he says, oh, they're tells me was much stronger than

[00:53:07] Eric.

[00:53:08] [SPEAKER_03]: And then he's like, oh, the corner of my eye, I see

[00:53:10] [SPEAKER_03]: Rosa just standing in a bedroom like what?

[00:53:14] [SPEAKER_03]: I think at that point, I'm like, yeah, these two probably did it

[00:53:17] [SPEAKER_03]: like this price of stuff going on here.

[00:53:19] [SPEAKER_03]: We fire wrote and just a cool, calm and collected demeanor of Rosa.

[00:53:23] [SPEAKER_03]: You know, I do like on the cops part, they're just like,

[00:53:26] [SPEAKER_03]: yeah, as soon as you got talking to her, like we knew she did it.

[00:53:29] [SPEAKER_03]: Like we knew there was something off here.

[00:53:32] [SPEAKER_03]: I did wonder if maybe if Rosa had some type of like,

[00:53:37] [SPEAKER_03]: I don't know, neurodivergence.

[00:53:38] [SPEAKER_03]: I was wondering if that played a part here,

[00:53:41] [SPEAKER_03]: because there was talk earlier in this episode where it's like

[00:53:44] [SPEAKER_03]: any time we try to talk to Rosa, she would, you know, whisper

[00:53:48] [SPEAKER_03]: to Eric and to give the answer.

[00:53:50] [SPEAKER_03]: And just the way she heard demeanor was and the way that she did stuff.

[00:53:55] [SPEAKER_03]: I was just wondering if there's maybe some aspect of that.

[00:53:57] [SPEAKER_03]: I don't know.

[00:53:58] [SPEAKER_03]: I'm not a, you know, medical doctor.

[00:54:00] [SPEAKER_03]: I can't diagnose.

[00:54:01] [SPEAKER_05]: You just play one on a podcast.

[00:54:03] [SPEAKER_03]: Yes, very well.

[00:54:04] [SPEAKER_03]: I was just wondering if that was a part of it.

[00:54:06] [SPEAKER_03]: But this just the scene of that hallway was just I

[00:54:10] [SPEAKER_03]: I don't think you could write it if if someone was scripting a series like this.

[00:54:15] [SPEAKER_03]: I don't think you could even think to write something like that.

[00:54:18] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah. Yeah.

[00:54:19] [SPEAKER_05]: Because you're worried about the daughter.

[00:54:20] [SPEAKER_05]: She was locked in her bathroom, which is still awful

[00:54:23] [SPEAKER_05]: because you're hearing the cries and the and the and the fuzz presumably.

[00:54:27] [SPEAKER_05]: But she wasn't she didn't say it.

[00:54:30] [SPEAKER_03]: Listen, based on based on the pictures of of my Eric got some good swings in.

[00:54:35] [SPEAKER_03]: He has really good swings until they took them all back from his ass.

[00:54:39] [SPEAKER_03]: Like, no.

[00:54:41] [SPEAKER_02]: And I did at my

[00:54:47] [SPEAKER_02]: roses apartment, they found like their master plan,

[00:54:50] [SPEAKER_02]: like their master plan was they were going to frame it.

[00:54:53] [SPEAKER_02]: So it seemed like Sally confronts

[00:54:57] [SPEAKER_02]: Eric about the child molestation charges.

[00:55:02] [SPEAKER_02]: Eric killed Sally and then Eric kills himself.

[00:55:05] [SPEAKER_02]: I think that's what they wanted for shame.

[00:55:07] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, shame for killing his grandmother and abusing his daughter.

[00:55:11] [SPEAKER_03]: I mean, listen, it's not a terrible plan.

[00:55:13] [SPEAKER_02]: If you can get away with it, you can get away.

[00:55:16] [SPEAKER_02]: If you weren't too slight, women

[00:55:19] [SPEAKER_03]: if you were Googling how to murder.

[00:55:21] [SPEAKER_05]: Like, yeah, I want you to.

[00:55:23] [SPEAKER_05]: You don't have four for spec script.

[00:55:26] [SPEAKER_03]: I was like, how to murder in the next in the next Google search is like,

[00:55:30] [SPEAKER_03]: can police see my Internet searches?

[00:55:35] [SPEAKER_03]: Like

[00:55:35] [SPEAKER_03]: you're probably inverted those two that you should have done there.

[00:55:38] [SPEAKER_02]: And so and yeah, so that's what that was their original plan.

[00:55:44] [SPEAKER_02]: And it just and because they wrote the thought that

[00:55:47] [SPEAKER_02]: because both of them would be gone, then nobody else

[00:55:49] [SPEAKER_02]: she could be the only person that could get physical custody of their daughter.

[00:55:54] [SPEAKER_02]: It was just I mean, just a three students level.

[00:55:59] [SPEAKER_05]: And they didn't know about the four p.m.

[00:56:01] [SPEAKER_05]: phone call.

[00:56:01] [SPEAKER_05]: And it was the four p.m.

[00:56:03] [SPEAKER_05]: phone call that saved Eric and his you know, and his daughter.

[00:56:06] [SPEAKER_02]: Right after she had started, she was stalking him.

[00:56:08] [SPEAKER_02]: She was stalking him to know all his whereabouts and all

[00:56:11] [SPEAKER_02]: where he would be in all of that.

[00:56:14] [SPEAKER_02]: And the four o'clock phone call, thank God for less.

[00:56:19] [SPEAKER_03]: So I.P. Big Less.

[00:56:21] [SPEAKER_02]: We miss you. Yeah.

[00:56:22] [SPEAKER_02]: Lester, her her boyfriend died less than a year after her murder.

[00:56:27] [SPEAKER_02]: So he mourned her.

[00:56:28] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah. Yeah.

[00:56:29] [SPEAKER_03]: Her broken heart. Yeah.

[00:56:31] [SPEAKER_05]: They'd been together for 10 years and they had a beautiful relationship.

[00:56:35] [SPEAKER_02]: I see. I hate to say it, but episode four is kind of like straightforward.

[00:56:40] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, it was.

[00:56:42] [SPEAKER_02]: In Married to a Monster, Amanda's ideal husband, Kevin,

[00:56:46] [SPEAKER_02]: reveals his controlling abusive nature behind closed doors

[00:56:50] [SPEAKER_02]: after she files for divorce and custody of their children.

[00:56:53] [SPEAKER_02]: Kevin hires his cousin, Jared, and the cousin's girlfriend, Alexis, to kill Amanda.

[00:56:59] [SPEAKER_02]: He gives them twenty four hundred dollars in cash,

[00:57:03] [SPEAKER_02]: which they flaunt on Snapchat before they commit the crime.

[00:57:08] [SPEAKER_02]: Unfortunately, it's Amanda's sister, Punky, who answers the door

[00:57:12] [SPEAKER_02]: and is shot by the murderous couple.

[00:57:15] [SPEAKER_02]: Alexis gets 15 years.

[00:57:17] [SPEAKER_02]: Jordan gets 32 years and Kevin gets life in prison without parole.

[00:57:22] [SPEAKER_02]: I do hate to say it is pretty straightforward.

[00:57:25] [SPEAKER_02]: The biggest thing was like, how does Punky end up dying?

[00:57:28] [SPEAKER_02]: Because we're talking to Amanda.

[00:57:30] [SPEAKER_02]: Amanda's one of the the talking heads and she's they're

[00:57:35] [SPEAKER_02]: talking in past tense about their their.

[00:57:39] [SPEAKER_02]: Punky. I know.

[00:57:41] [SPEAKER_02]: No, I hate it.

[00:57:42] [SPEAKER_02]: I hated every second of it.

[00:57:44] [SPEAKER_02]: So we're just trying to figure out how this happens.

[00:57:46] [SPEAKER_02]: And so once the crime is committed, like

[00:57:51] [SPEAKER_02]: and she opens the door, she gets shot and she dies.

[00:57:54] [SPEAKER_02]: Like they literally aren't they don't have they don't know where to go.

[00:57:58] [SPEAKER_02]: Like the cops almost like don't know how to to solve this case at all.

[00:58:05] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, because he has an alibi. Yeah.

[00:58:08] [SPEAKER_03]: I mean, and listen, his alibi was I was home, which is like

[00:58:11] [SPEAKER_03]: certainly an alibi.

[00:58:13] [SPEAKER_03]: But like it just it kind of falls in the cops lap

[00:58:16] [SPEAKER_03]: that like someone was talking in a party and they talked about how they,

[00:58:21] [SPEAKER_03]: you know, were bragging about, you know, whatever they were doing

[00:58:23] [SPEAKER_03]: with their boyfriend and killing the person.

[00:58:26] [SPEAKER_03]: And so I mean, sometimes I just get lucky.

[00:58:29] [SPEAKER_05]: I was 15 years old.

[00:58:32] [SPEAKER_02]: She was 15 years old.

[00:58:34] [SPEAKER_05]: I'm a lexist. Oh, my God. Yeah.

[00:58:36] [SPEAKER_05]: So, I mean, again, the the breadcrumbs of

[00:58:41] [SPEAKER_05]: not necessarily what is to come, but certainly escalating abuse and violence.

[00:58:47] [SPEAKER_05]: Amanda has very happily has her daughter Eliana.

[00:58:51] [SPEAKER_05]: And then she says, oh, and then when Eliana was three months old,

[00:58:55] [SPEAKER_05]: I got pregnant again and I wrote he was at her as soon as he could be.

[00:59:00] [SPEAKER_05]: That's too soon.

[00:59:02] [SPEAKER_05]: That is too soon for a woman's body.

[00:59:04] [SPEAKER_05]: He calls her a fat bitch when she's pregnant.

[00:59:07] [SPEAKER_05]: He checks her phone.

[00:59:08] [SPEAKER_05]: He controls what she wears and he starts to try and isolate her from her family

[00:59:13] [SPEAKER_05]: because Punky never liked him and he knows.

[00:59:16] [SPEAKER_05]: And this is really common.

[00:59:17] [SPEAKER_05]: You pick the one in the family.

[00:59:18] [SPEAKER_05]: OK, I've got to get you away from Punky because Punky sees who I am.

[00:59:22] [SPEAKER_05]: But the rest of the family is really, really happy with him.

[00:59:26] [SPEAKER_05]: And these are the breadcrumbs towards this escalation.

[00:59:30] [SPEAKER_05]: He is going to serve three years for assault,

[00:59:33] [SPEAKER_05]: but it takes the police a very long time to crack the case.

[00:59:37] [SPEAKER_05]: And as you say, the only way it cracks is because Alexis is boasting.

[00:59:42] [SPEAKER_05]: Stay stupid criminals.

[00:59:44] [SPEAKER_03]: Mm hmm. Listen, let this be a lesson to all of you out there.

[00:59:47] [SPEAKER_03]: All you single people never date someone you met at Denny's.

[00:59:52] [SPEAKER_03]: I did always mistake. Don't do it.

[00:59:57] [SPEAKER_03]: OK, this is not a place to meet people.

[01:00:00] [SPEAKER_02]: Let's get our overall thoughts and our ratings.

[01:00:03] [SPEAKER_02]: So I'm going to ask you, Jason,

[01:00:05] [SPEAKER_02]: how many magnifying glasses are you going to rate worst X ever out of a possible five?

[01:00:13] [SPEAKER_03]: Who I think will give us one or four.

[01:00:17] [SPEAKER_03]: I thought that the I thought the cases were all very compelling.

[01:00:20] [SPEAKER_03]: Of course, as I said, they all had

[01:00:23] [SPEAKER_03]: just the most crazy twists and turns.

[01:00:27] [SPEAKER_03]: But I but I will say, I don't think they were told in any special way.

[01:00:32] [SPEAKER_03]: I'll say that it was it was, as you said, Marv,

[01:00:34] [SPEAKER_03]: the last one is already kind of straightforward.

[01:00:37] [SPEAKER_03]: So I think I think I take off a glass for that.

[01:00:39] [SPEAKER_03]: But other than that, I give it a four.

[01:00:41] [SPEAKER_03]: I got a solid four. It was good.

[01:00:42] [SPEAKER_03]: I enjoy what I I mean, to say I enjoyed what I saw would be right.

[01:00:48] [SPEAKER_03]: But but yeah, I thought it was done well.

[01:00:50] [SPEAKER_02]: I'll say it was done very well.

[01:00:52] [SPEAKER_02]: I agree.

[01:00:53] [SPEAKER_02]: Sarah, how many magnifying glasses are you going to rate worst X ever?

[01:00:56] [SPEAKER_05]: Well, I'm with you, Jason, for it's very well made.

[01:01:00] [SPEAKER_05]: We fond of Blumhouse Productions here, Mary.

[01:01:03] [SPEAKER_05]: We've covered a few I like, like again.

[01:01:08] [SPEAKER_05]: It's the we are true crime is entertainment.

[01:01:11] [SPEAKER_05]: It's very hard. They're very well made.

[01:01:12] [SPEAKER_05]: I think the cases that they chose and the order that they go in,

[01:01:17] [SPEAKER_05]: even though number four is very straightforward, we've got to we've got to

[01:01:20] [SPEAKER_05]: reach the peak, not Sally.

[01:01:23] [SPEAKER_05]: And then and then come down to kind of an ordinary

[01:01:27] [SPEAKER_05]: dangerous X when I say ordinary.

[01:01:30] [SPEAKER_05]: It's like these are the things to look out for in your own relationships,

[01:01:35] [SPEAKER_05]: unfortunately, but also to be vigilant outside

[01:01:39] [SPEAKER_05]: relationships as well and have the,

[01:01:43] [SPEAKER_05]: you know, potentially tough discussion with your friend.

[01:01:46] [SPEAKER_05]: I don't like the way he treats you.

[01:01:49] [SPEAKER_05]: You know, perhaps she or he is just waiting for somebody else to notice

[01:01:53] [SPEAKER_05]: or to be called to account.

[01:01:55] [SPEAKER_05]: And what about you, Murray?

[01:01:56] [SPEAKER_05]: What are you going to write?

[01:01:58] [SPEAKER_05]: Worst X ever?

[01:01:59] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I think four is across the board.

[01:02:02] [SPEAKER_02]: I think it's kind of funny because the way I watch this,

[01:02:07] [SPEAKER_02]: I watched episodes one and two.

[01:02:10] [SPEAKER_02]: I fell asleep on episode three because it was just late at night.

[01:02:14] [SPEAKER_02]: And then when I got back to I was like, let me just skip to four.

[01:02:20] [SPEAKER_02]: So I watched four.

[01:02:21] [SPEAKER_02]: I watched one, two, four.

[01:02:22] [SPEAKER_02]: And then I finished watching three.

[01:02:25] [SPEAKER_02]: And I think if they had,

[01:02:27] [SPEAKER_02]: I think if they had switched those last two, it would be a per.

[01:02:31] [SPEAKER_02]: It would probably get a perfect five because

[01:02:35] [SPEAKER_02]: in the order that I watched it, I was like, oh, my God.

[01:02:38] [SPEAKER_02]: It was like, like one of the like most mind blowing ones

[01:02:41] [SPEAKER_02]: that was like at the end.

[01:02:44] [SPEAKER_02]: But these cases are like

[01:02:47] [SPEAKER_02]: Blumhouse does a great job in the production.

[01:02:50] [SPEAKER_02]: I like the animation.

[01:02:52] [SPEAKER_02]: I think they did a great job getting talking heads.

[01:02:55] [SPEAKER_02]: We hear from all of the victims.

[01:02:58] [SPEAKER_02]: The victims themselves tell us their their plight and

[01:03:01] [SPEAKER_02]: and how they felt felt about everything.

[01:03:05] [SPEAKER_02]: You know, it was very done.

[01:03:07] [SPEAKER_02]: It was all done respectfully.

[01:03:09] [SPEAKER_02]: I just they have not missed this.

[01:03:12] [SPEAKER_02]: This worst ever series is really, really good.

[01:03:18] [SPEAKER_02]: I wonder what they're going to do next.

[01:03:20] [SPEAKER_02]: You know what I'm saying?

[01:03:21] [SPEAKER_02]: Like, I don't I don't know how they can keep going with this.

[01:03:24] [SPEAKER_02]: The subgenre, but

[01:03:27] [SPEAKER_02]: worst date ever or something like I don't know.

[01:03:30] [SPEAKER_02]: It is worse coworkers.

[01:03:31] [SPEAKER_02]: I think coworkers.

[01:03:32] [SPEAKER_02]: Oh, coworkers.

[01:03:34] [SPEAKER_02]: Yes. Yeah.

[01:03:35] [SPEAKER_02]: Wow. Yeah.

[01:03:37] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, that'd be my next one.

[01:03:39] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[01:03:41] [SPEAKER_03]: Work on my total.

[01:03:42] [SPEAKER_02]: But yeah, I think just overall for very solid.

[01:03:47] [SPEAKER_02]: I highly recommend, highly recommend if you got through all of this

[01:03:50] [SPEAKER_02]: and you didn't watch it, you can still go

[01:03:54] [SPEAKER_02]: and watch it because we talked about a lot of stuff,

[01:03:56] [SPEAKER_02]: but it's still ridiculous to go and watch.

[01:04:01] [SPEAKER_02]: So overall, recap kickback, Jason and I talked to Chappelle

[01:04:07] [SPEAKER_02]: and we talked about the murder of Air McNair.

[01:04:10] [SPEAKER_02]: It's an episode in the Untold series on Netflix.

[01:04:15] [SPEAKER_02]: There was a link to it in the show that's show notes last episode,

[01:04:18] [SPEAKER_02]: but we'll put it in today's show notes as well.

[01:04:21] [SPEAKER_02]: Sarah, I know you watched the Air McNair episode.

[01:04:25] [SPEAKER_02]: What did you think of it and the Untold series as a whole?

[01:04:30] [SPEAKER_05]: Well, I think the Untold series as a whole is a great series.

[01:04:33] [SPEAKER_05]: It's it's nice that it's not no murders, but it's,

[01:04:37] [SPEAKER_05]: you know, that the sporting side of crime and those intrigues.

[01:04:42] [SPEAKER_05]: For me, the murder of Air McNair was an unusual miss in this series.

[01:04:47] [SPEAKER_05]: Too much football for a crime documentary,

[01:04:49] [SPEAKER_05]: too much crime for a sports documentary.

[01:04:52] [SPEAKER_05]: And I agree with Jason's rating of two magnifying glasses.

[01:04:57] [SPEAKER_05]: But I would say to our listeners, skip the documentary.

[01:05:02] [SPEAKER_05]: Listen to recap kickback.

[01:05:03] [SPEAKER_05]: It is a great episode.

[01:05:06] [SPEAKER_05]: It's it's lots of fun and they spun gold out of straw.

[01:05:11] [SPEAKER_05]: But I will say Sign Stealer, which is the second

[01:05:15] [SPEAKER_05]: of the new batch of the Untold, is perfection.

[01:05:18] [SPEAKER_05]: I'm giving it five magnifying glasses.

[01:05:21] [SPEAKER_05]: I have no notes.

[01:05:23] [SPEAKER_05]: It's so well told.

[01:05:24] [SPEAKER_05]: I didn't know.

[01:05:25] [SPEAKER_05]: I don't know anything about sports ball.

[01:05:27] [SPEAKER_05]: I certainly didn't know that that coaches talk to the players on the field.

[01:05:33] [SPEAKER_05]: Crazy. We don't do that here.

[01:05:34] [SPEAKER_05]: Well, we don't have helmets and they just go out and play.

[01:05:38] [SPEAKER_05]: But apparently they're being controlled about controlling.

[01:05:41] [SPEAKER_05]: So, I mean, I found that very interesting.

[01:05:43] [SPEAKER_05]: I was learning stuff very clearly without being ponderous.

[01:05:47] [SPEAKER_05]: And it is such a great documentary because it brings up a central question that I

[01:05:55] [SPEAKER_05]: not overtly, but but it's there, which is sign stealing is legal.

[01:06:03] [SPEAKER_05]: This man's stallion, I mean,

[01:06:05] [SPEAKER_05]: Connor Stallion's come on. What a great name.

[01:06:09] [SPEAKER_05]: He does it, but he does it really well.

[01:06:12] [SPEAKER_05]: So is that a crime?

[01:06:13] [SPEAKER_05]: And I really liked that they continually go back to ticking off all the things

[01:06:19] [SPEAKER_05]: that you're allowed to do and then question marks.

[01:06:22] [SPEAKER_03]: So I thought that had a counting cards in Vegas a little bit.

[01:06:25] [SPEAKER_05]: Yes, yes.

[01:06:26] [SPEAKER_05]: So sign stealing is completely legal, but they went after Connor Stallion's

[01:06:32] [SPEAKER_05]: I think for being too good at it.

[01:06:33] [SPEAKER_05]: So that's very interesting.

[01:06:35] [SPEAKER_05]: I'm about a third of the way through Hope Solo versus U.S.

[01:06:39] [SPEAKER_05]: soccer. Really good so far.

[01:06:40] [SPEAKER_05]: And I will be finishing watching that.

[01:06:42] [SPEAKER_05]: I think that's really good, too. Awesome.

[01:06:48] [SPEAKER_02]: Jason, do you have anything to recommend to our listeners?

[01:06:52] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, actually.

[01:06:54] [SPEAKER_03]: Listen, the crimes taking place in Love is Blind UK are

[01:06:59] [SPEAKER_03]: are many crimes of the heart, if you will.

[01:07:03] [SPEAKER_03]: So I would recommend that and then check out my coverage.

[01:07:05] [SPEAKER_03]: I did it with Asia Welch and Mary Kwiatkowski.

[01:07:08] [SPEAKER_03]: We covered the whole the whole season in one podcast.

[01:07:11] [SPEAKER_03]: So you check that out, you haven't checked out your love's blind fan.

[01:07:14] [SPEAKER_03]: And this kind of missed you because it wasn't as highly publicized

[01:07:18] [SPEAKER_03]: as the U.S. season.

[01:07:19] [SPEAKER_03]: Check out the UK season and then check out our coverage over there

[01:07:23] [SPEAKER_03]: on the love at first sight feed on Rockets podcast.

[01:07:26] [SPEAKER_03]: It was a blast covering and a blast watching it.

[01:07:29] [SPEAKER_03]: So yeah, that's what I would recommend right now.

[01:07:32] [SPEAKER_02]: Yes.

[01:07:33] [SPEAKER_02]: Sarah, what do you have to recommend to our listeners?

[01:07:35] [SPEAKER_05]: Well, a complete change of pace and tone.

[01:07:39] [SPEAKER_05]: A podcast called The Rest is History,

[01:07:42] [SPEAKER_05]: British popular historians Tom Holland and Dominic Sandbrook.

[01:07:47] [SPEAKER_05]: And they talk about

[01:07:48] [SPEAKER_05]: no different Tom Holland as a historian.

[01:07:52] [SPEAKER_05]: Tom Holland, they talk about all manner of things.

[01:07:56] [SPEAKER_05]: There was a single episode on the history of Italian food,

[01:07:59] [SPEAKER_05]: which was just like mind blowing.

[01:08:01] [SPEAKER_05]: Then they have like a five part series on the Hundred Years War.

[01:08:05] [SPEAKER_05]: They might talk about the Battle of Agincourt.

[01:08:07] [SPEAKER_05]: They might talk about Alexander the Great.

[01:08:09] [SPEAKER_05]: They might talk about U.S.

[01:08:11] [SPEAKER_05]: presidential assassinations, the massacre at Wounded Knee is another.

[01:08:15] [SPEAKER_05]: And the next one I've got lined up to listen to

[01:08:18] [SPEAKER_05]: is the history of Savile Row and men's tailoring.

[01:08:22] [SPEAKER_05]: And they are those people that I mean,

[01:08:25] [SPEAKER_05]: I'm picking and choosing things that I'm interested in.

[01:08:29] [SPEAKER_05]: But I really feel like if there's if they're talking about something

[01:08:32] [SPEAKER_05]: that I'm not interested in, particularly,

[01:08:34] [SPEAKER_05]: they are going to make it interesting for me.

[01:08:38] [SPEAKER_05]: So that is a very strong recommend.

[01:08:41] [SPEAKER_05]: The episodes are quite short, they're less than an hour.

[01:08:45] [SPEAKER_05]: But yeah, very, very good.

[01:08:48] [SPEAKER_05]: And Mari, I know you're a history head,

[01:08:50] [SPEAKER_05]: so I would love to know what you think about it if you get a chance to listen.

[01:08:55] [SPEAKER_02]: I am literally downloading it right now because that is

[01:09:00] [SPEAKER_02]: that is definitely my judge.

[01:09:02] [SPEAKER_02]: That is my alley.

[01:09:05] [SPEAKER_02]: Right.

[01:09:06] [SPEAKER_02]: And I love that it has a lot of episodes to just has a lot.

[01:09:09] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah. And you can really skip around.

[01:09:11] [SPEAKER_05]: So what do you have something to recommend today, Mari?

[01:09:15] [SPEAKER_05]: Yes. A few things.

[01:09:19] [SPEAKER_02]: Definitely watch the other episodes of Deadly Influence.

[01:09:23] [SPEAKER_02]: We covered deadly influence a few episodes ago.

[01:09:26] [SPEAKER_02]: So the rest, I think it's two more episodes.

[01:09:30] [SPEAKER_02]: I think we covered what was it, Sarah, the first three.

[01:09:34] [SPEAKER_02]: The first four we covered.

[01:09:37] [SPEAKER_02]: There's six in total. I can't remember.

[01:09:39] [SPEAKER_02]: Y'all know with two more came out.

[01:09:42] [SPEAKER_02]: Also, I just started watching Homicide Los Angeles on Netflix.

[01:09:47] [SPEAKER_02]: I was kind of watching that after I was watching worse ever.

[01:09:51] [SPEAKER_02]: That's pretty good.

[01:09:53] [SPEAKER_02]: Like for some reason, Homicide New York really didn't do anything for me.

[01:09:57] [SPEAKER_02]: But Homicide Los Angeles felt a little

[01:10:01] [SPEAKER_02]: a little better, a little brighter, I guess, to say the least.

[01:10:05] [SPEAKER_02]: I guess it didn't feel like they were trying to make everything so gritty.

[01:10:08] [SPEAKER_02]: So you can definitely check that out as well.

[01:10:13] [SPEAKER_02]: That's that's really it for the true crime,

[01:10:16] [SPEAKER_02]: true crime recommendations for me at crime scene.

[01:10:20] [SPEAKER_02]: We are eager to hear your feedback and suggestions for future episodes.

[01:10:24] [SPEAKER_02]: You can follow crime scene on Twitter at crime scene.

[01:10:27] [SPEAKER_02]: That's crime.

[01:10:28] [SPEAKER_02]: S E E N R.

[01:10:31] [SPEAKER_02]: J P. Or you can email us at crime scene R.

[01:10:34] [SPEAKER_02]: J P. At Gmail dot com.

[01:10:37] [SPEAKER_05]: We're on Tick Tock at crime dot scene and other social media

[01:10:40] [SPEAKER_05]: at crime scene podcast.

[01:10:42] [SPEAKER_05]: And please remember to subscribe to our feed.

[01:10:44] [SPEAKER_05]: Rob has a website dot com slash crime feed.

[01:10:47] [SPEAKER_05]: It makes a big difference.

[01:10:52] [SPEAKER_02]: Jason, what do you have going on and where can the people find you?

[01:10:55] [SPEAKER_03]: I already mentioned the Love is Blind UK coverage that we did.

[01:10:59] [SPEAKER_03]: If you are a football head, as Mari mentioned, we're on Rika.

[01:11:02] [SPEAKER_03]: I think about talking about the murder of Eric Bickner.

[01:11:03] [SPEAKER_03]: I was also on the 32 fans podcast talking about the Baltimore Ravens

[01:11:08] [SPEAKER_03]: and the outlook for this season with with the affirmation Chappelle as well.

[01:11:12] [SPEAKER_03]: I've also taken up a project in the last few months called The Good Pod,

[01:11:16] [SPEAKER_03]: where we look back on the show, The Good Wife and all of its related

[01:11:20] [SPEAKER_03]: properties. Elspeth season two is coming soon.

[01:11:22] [SPEAKER_03]: Talk about that as well as in the middle.

[01:11:24] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, we are in the middle.

[01:11:26] [SPEAKER_03]: Love Elspeth. It's so fun.

[01:11:28] [SPEAKER_03]: She's very fun and very like, you know, this is kind of a lighter fair.

[01:11:32] [SPEAKER_03]: So yes, very Colombo.

[01:11:33] [SPEAKER_03]: So if you're into The Good Wife and enjoyed that or you're looking

[01:11:36] [SPEAKER_03]: for something old that is new to you, check out The Good Wife

[01:11:40] [SPEAKER_03]: and check out our podcast, The Good Pod.

[01:11:42] [SPEAKER_03]: I do that show with Marissa Garza.

[01:11:43] [SPEAKER_03]: So check that out.

[01:11:45] [SPEAKER_03]: And that's pretty much it for me.

[01:11:47] [SPEAKER_03]: And you can also follow me on Twitter at J.A.Y.R.

[01:11:51] [SPEAKER_05]: Sarah, what do you have going on and where can the people find you?

[01:11:54] [SPEAKER_05]: The people can find me at Sarah Carradine on all the things over on

[01:11:58] [SPEAKER_05]: Silent Podcasts International.

[01:12:00] [SPEAKER_05]: I'm bringing you every Luke in Rupaul's Drag Race Global All Stars

[01:12:04] [SPEAKER_05]: with Katie from A Date with Datelines.

[01:12:07] [SPEAKER_05]: So we will be looking at the crimes of fashion as well.

[01:12:10] [SPEAKER_05]: Annabelle Fiddler and I will be bringing you the amazing Race

[01:12:12] [SPEAKER_05]: Australia Celebrity Edition, the second season of that.

[01:12:16] [SPEAKER_05]: Watch out for our cast preview in the next few days.

[01:12:19] [SPEAKER_05]: And Sam Smith and I will be bringing you Dutch Courage.

[01:12:22] [SPEAKER_05]: Yes, we're going back to the beginning and talking about De Verada's

[01:12:25] [SPEAKER_05]: the original season of The Traitors from the Netherlands.

[01:12:29] [SPEAKER_05]: And what about you, Mari?

[01:12:31] [SPEAKER_02]: Every week you can find me on the recap kickback with Chappelle

[01:12:35] [SPEAKER_02]: covering shows the only way we know how.

[01:12:39] [SPEAKER_02]: Last week, me and Chappelle

[01:12:42] [SPEAKER_02]: were joined by the Amazing Tie.

[01:12:45] [SPEAKER_02]: And we talked about the deliverance

[01:12:48] [SPEAKER_02]: that's right.

[01:12:50] [SPEAKER_02]: He talked about Lee Daniels

[01:12:54] [SPEAKER_02]: exorcism based horror story, the deliverance.

[01:12:58] [SPEAKER_02]: It has been trending all over social media for the last week and a half.

[01:13:05] [SPEAKER_02]: Clips are circulating, so we had to jump on it.

[01:13:09] [SPEAKER_02]: It was an amazing podcast.

[01:13:12] [SPEAKER_02]: You got to go listen to it.

[01:13:13] [SPEAKER_02]: Go to recap kickback dot com to subscribe.

[01:13:16] [SPEAKER_02]: You can also go watch the podcast, which I would highly recommend

[01:13:20] [SPEAKER_02]: by going to YouTube dot com slash at recap kickback

[01:13:24] [SPEAKER_02]: to watch it there.

[01:13:26] [SPEAKER_02]: We had a blast talking about a spooky, spooky movie.

[01:13:32] [SPEAKER_02]: You can also find me here on crime scene and over on R.H.P.

[01:13:37] [SPEAKER_02]: I'm doing Big Brother coverage.

[01:13:39] [SPEAKER_02]: So if you want to know whenever I'm talking about Big Brother,

[01:13:42] [SPEAKER_02]: you can follow me on Twitter at Mari Talks too much.

[01:13:46] [SPEAKER_02]: That's too like the number two.

[01:13:49] [SPEAKER_02]: So, yeah, Big Brother 26 is in full swing

[01:13:53] [SPEAKER_02]: and we're having a lot of fun covering that.

[01:13:57] [SPEAKER_05]: Sarah, what's happening next on crime scene?

[01:14:00] [SPEAKER_05]: We're taking next week off and then we're returning on September 24th

[01:14:05] [SPEAKER_05]: with unsolved mysteries.

[01:14:07] [SPEAKER_05]: Mark Blankenship will be joining us for that.

[01:14:10] [SPEAKER_05]: Watch it on Netflix and send us your comments and questions.

[01:14:15] [SPEAKER_02]: Thanks to Jason Reed for joining us.

[01:14:17] [SPEAKER_02]: We'll from America for the theme music and the whole R.H.P.

[01:14:20] [SPEAKER_02]: team behind the scenes until next time.

[01:14:23] [SPEAKER_02]: Case closed.