Crime Seen | Episode 98: Can I Tell You a Secret?

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[00:02:45] Hello everyone, I'm Mari Forth.

[00:02:54] I'm Sarah Caradine, podcasting from Aura Sydney.

[00:03:00] And this is Crime Scene, the True Crime Review Podcast where we get to the heart of how true crime stories are told.

[00:03:06] You can get this podcast along with all the other fantastic reality TV content by subscribing to

[00:03:11] RobHazelipsight.com slash RehabUpSeed, that's robhazelipsight.com slash R-H-A-P-U-P-S-E.

[00:03:20] We'd love it if you would subscribe to our dedicated feed as well.

[00:03:24] Please go to robhazelipsight.com slash crime feed.

[00:03:29] You'll get your true crime on Tuesdays.

[00:03:31] If you've already subscribed, thank you so much.

[00:03:34] Last week we watched Quiet On Set with the Mess Magnets, Sasha and Kirsten.

[00:03:40] Mari, what did we watch this week?

[00:03:43] This week we watched Can I Tell You a Secret on Netflix.

[00:03:46] It was directed by Natasha Gaunt and Liza Williams.

[00:03:50] Liza Williams actually directed Hell Camp Teen Nightmare which we covered on Episode 88 with Sheppell.

[00:03:56] We said there was a lot of fluff.

[00:03:58] It just covered the story they were looking at and not a lot of breath into the wider societal aspects.

[00:04:05] And we thought it was cool while we were watching it but it left us a little unsatisfied.

[00:04:10] Our guests and I gave it three magnifying glasses and Sarah gave it 2.5 after initially rating it too.

[00:04:19] But it's also no secret how much we love having today's guest on the scene.

[00:04:24] Equal link Sheppell's appearances now, another seven-timer, Matt Scott, Matt, how are you?

[00:04:32] Oh, seven times.

[00:04:34] I am so happy to be here and honestly, like I feel like when Sheppell's here I'm here too.

[00:04:40] So I feel like I've been here 14 times you know what I mean?

[00:04:43] We're just that connected but no always happy to be here with the two of you and to talk about some crime or...

[00:04:52] My wrestling tag team partner is over here adding title reigns like he's Charlotte Flair or something.

[00:05:01] I'm just going to call you a several a several time.

[00:05:04] Okay, yes, I'm a several timer.

[00:05:07] Yeah, exactly several times.

[00:05:10] Happy to be here though.

[00:05:12] And we're so glad to have you back especially for a very interesting property.

[00:05:16] So let's get to the crime.

[00:05:19] Matthew Hardy now 33.

[00:05:23] It's just so funny.

[00:05:25] It's just it's just his meant that you're on here again.

[00:05:28] Yes, pro wrestler Matt Hardy.

[00:05:32] I wonder if they know about each other or not.

[00:05:35] That's my big question.

[00:05:37] I really cracked up at that at that name reveal.

[00:05:41] But Matthew Hardy now 33 is an English cyber stalker.

[00:05:46] He is believed to have attacked 63 victims over 11 years making him one of the most prolific cyber stalkers in the UK.

[00:05:54] And I think that he victimized went to law enforcement seeking help.

[00:05:57] And of course their fears were dismissed.

[00:06:00] Of course, shock of course, right.

[00:06:03] But finally, PC Kevin Anderson of the Cheshire police made the case his mission.

[00:06:10] Enough evidence was a mass so that Hardy would be arrested.

[00:06:14] And after initially denying copability, Hardy pled guilty.

[00:06:19] And the UK only 0.1% of stalkers are charged and the average custodial sentence is about 13.5 months.

[00:06:29] Hardy was sentenced to nine years, but was later reduced to eight years on appeal.

[00:06:37] This was interesting.

[00:06:39] I don't think it was anything like I imagined when I picked it or what we decided on it.

[00:06:45] I can't remember how you picked it back out of it.

[00:06:50] We were like, we were like, can I tell you the secret or American conspiracy?

[00:06:55] Like a toss up.

[00:06:58] So I want to get your thoughts Matt on this.

[00:07:01] I know we normally have you on there's no bondage on this one.

[00:07:06] So we did.

[00:07:08] The last thing you need to do is bring up that you I wouldn't call it typecasting because has nothing to do with me.

[00:07:15] But you just have a thing for putting me on bondage really.

[00:07:19] But we did it this time. See look at us grow.

[00:07:22] I mean not a physical bondage, but more of a emotional emotional emotional bondage.

[00:07:29] I mean those girls were saying they didn't go out anymore. They're bound to their homes. So there is bondage there.

[00:07:34] There you go.

[00:07:36] I should say women and all girls they women.

[00:07:39] What were your thoughts on this two part docky series that featured victims of a prolific cyber stocker?

[00:07:50] Yes, so I I thought that this would be an interesting one to cover because it's dealing with social media.

[00:07:57] It's something that's very modern. It is also just like stocking is something that's incredibly important to you shine a light on and talk about.

[00:08:07] But also as the series points to often there are very few folks convicted of stocking this series, which I do regret that it was two parts and not just one.

[00:08:23] This series for me, I love how much it centered the voices of the victims or survivors depending which I return they choose to use.

[00:08:34] But it was so all over the place. I don't want to get into it too much but I have a lot more negative.

[00:08:40] Get into it. I listen to that.

[00:08:42] I mean there's you know okay, there's there's the lack of a sense of time, a lack of a clear sense of place or distance especially people don't live in the UK.

[00:08:51] There are like in part two we just get introduced to a whole bunch of other people it's like oh who are who is she like what what's going on.

[00:08:59] And you know, like I really feel like they wanted to go in hitting a point home about social media and they did and they painted that picture but it didn't have the same like beautiful chronology and very clear story and timeline which so many of the other docky series and docky series.

[00:09:20] And documentaries that you all and we all have covered.

[00:09:24] So I wasn't a huge fan but there's a lot to talk about here and I'm glad that we covered it.

[00:09:30] I agree Sarah, how about you your thoughts initial thoughts?

[00:09:34] Well when you suggested it, I was very happy to do it because I think it's a really really fascinating subject.

[00:09:43] And you know, there can't really be enough about it because there are so many aspects.

[00:09:48] You know, there's physical stalking, there's cyber stalking, combos of those.

[00:09:54] I liked the trailer although

[00:09:59] yeah, they were great to

[00:10:02] I don't do that.

[00:10:04] Don't do that.

[00:10:06] Make it a normal man's voice is much scarier much scarier if a normal sounding voice says, oh you better watch out because I'm going to come and get you it's like it's much scarier than a manufacturer's

[00:10:20] and then when it was the woman's voice, it was babes.

[00:10:24] I'm going to do this and it's like just say it normally so I had a kind of aesthetic production anti on it before I started watching but I thought that's okay.

[00:10:34] Like this was a decision by the director let's see how it all folds together.

[00:10:40] I felt it's very interesting listening back to our final ratings wrap up and critique of hell camp.

[00:10:48] How many analogies there are with this for me one of the news it's only telling the story that it's telling it didn't really broaden out into the broader aspects.

[00:10:59] I minded that less with this property than I did with hell camp but I thought oh there's a whole sort of rich vein that's not being tapped.

[00:11:09] They had a statement from one of the other county police department saying we strive it was quite fantastic the text on screen.

[00:11:19] We strive for the highest possible blah blah blah if victim feels we have fallen short we are we open our arms for discussion as to how we could have done better.

[00:11:31] So that will great let's get that discussion let's have that discussion on film let's have that person and the flag from the from the police department talk about it let's ask them what do you intend to do let's say to them have you met Laura Richards she has some really good ideas about how to protect her.

[00:11:48] She is about how to protect her from male violence so that is beyond the scope of this director and like we said with hell camp it's like well that's not the story she and her collaborator chose to tell but I think it makes it a poorer story.

[00:12:07] The strongest part was listening to the women in part one right telling a story I mean it was a bit confusing as to what happened when and why but I thought I'll let it go from them because like anyone with trauma it's very hard to then just go back and describe like a year two years worth of attacks.

[00:12:29] I mean the paralegal Leah had her big binder which which is is almost entirely responsible for getting him charged but she as a paralegal she was doing it as she was used to Abby the fire is here and so the model had memories and some screenshots but clearly the trauma has because sometimes they said things that didn't make sense not that they were lying said they hadn't made sense of it.

[00:12:57] So even more we needed the filmmakers to assist us through that slightly confused story from the victim survivor as you would expect from trauma but things not to not to quite set.

[00:13:11] We didn't know where things were they had a big map of the UK with lights just flashing here there streaming here there hanging here that love that.

[00:13:20] flashing.

[00:13:23] And then in part two suddenly we have Sabrina and that's all it says on her car on I don't know she is to later she becomes vital Matthew was her friends nephew and she ends up recording him but her placement was very strange I think she needed to come in later.

[00:13:44] I think nini who was Matthew schoolmate and an early victim was interesting she wasn't placed either I don't mind it starting in the recent past and then going back 10 years.

[00:13:57] I thought that was great this man has been doing this consistently for all this time and not been stopped even though he had an injunction on him to stop or he would go to jail 10 years prior.

[00:14:11] And that wasn't followed through on so that's a really interesting nugget that wasn't mind.

[00:14:16] So have nini place her in time and our stomachs would drop and we will go oh my god he's been doing this for 10 years and not only that but he's had you know the he's he's had a bond a good behavior bond I don't know if you have good behavior bonds in your country but we do here in the UK.

[00:14:35] He's had a bond that he broke almost immediately and nothing happened so there were nuts and nuggets and really great material like really great material in it the way it was placed the way it was told to us.

[00:14:54] I was more frustrated because there was a good story there I was more frustrated because these two directors are capable of telling a better story telling the story better not a better story telling the story better.

[00:15:08] And when we first meet dr. Amy Pearson the developmental psychologist I was very happy to hear from her we only hear from her briefly because it's like they want the.

[00:15:17] Da da da at the end when she reveals her own autism spectrum diagnosis because Matthew Hardy is also on the spectrum and uses that as an excuse.

[00:15:33] Really good stuff given three minutes in this very long.

[00:15:37] Of nearly two hours.

[00:15:39] Oh there's a lot.

[00:15:42] A lot if you want to have.

[00:15:46] No, not even a rebuttal just add to that because one thing Sarah you touched on so much but one thing that they just decided you know after the fact as an after thought to throw in in the last literal seconds before the credits was mentioned of how social media companies have a role to play.

[00:16:08] And there's more that social media could do it was on the screen I believe from the chest our police department and how do you just put that at the end this whole story is really.

[00:16:24] Star out and centered on social media and I really do love Sarah how you pointed out just the I mean yes it's a crime document docu series but it really is.

[00:16:38] Framed has almost a horror movie from the beginning and we're getting that and it's dark and scary and spooky and we go through this whole two hours at the end they just decide to acknowledge.

[00:16:52] The role of social media companies without going into that at all even though that seemed central to the story they were attempting to tell with the series and so I felt like.

[00:17:06] I don't know what happened if they run out of time like rent they ran to a deadline when they need to have something published and they just decided not to talk about the right social media companies.

[00:17:16] Well maybe I sort of doubt I doubt that I mean not to victim blame but but Zoe says how did he know so much about me and I thought oh she just opened a door brilliant yeah.

[00:17:31] I just don't they didn't take it because yeah because they probably didn't say anything about it because these these.

[00:17:37] These social media corporations like Facebook we know for a fact that Facebook will not give up your information we seen it there was a congressional hearing like they quote unquote.

[00:17:48] Protect their users privacy over everything that's even if users are using Facebook for nefarious means like you know rigging an election.

[00:17:59] So like it's very prescient right about now as we are like in the middle of the whole banning tick tock law being passed by Congress being passed by the House now having to go to the Senate that this document they didn't know that this was going to happen but it's very interesting.

[00:18:18] That this is coming out at a time where social media is being talked about as is the security risk is this just censorship and I think it's really interesting that.

[00:18:31] Facebook meta Instagram was definitely highlighted here because I've seen this happen so I can remember if I've told the story on podcasts or not but like my like my my grandmother like my grandmother.

[00:18:46] On the I barely get on Facebook but when I get on Facebook yeah I know I tried to keep up with everything that I can show not Facebook.

[00:18:57] But my grandma her profile has been like stolen and copied 20 million times they keep getting this old people like it's so many it's every time you see them at like.

[00:19:11] I'll get a friend request from her it's the same profile picture it's her same name and stuff like that and I'm like I know you're not the real one and then if you search her name there's like six or seven pages that come up that are exact duplicates of hers and this is how they get you because like.

[00:19:30] Like they they add you and then if they add you then they add more of the family so the family sees you and then they're like oh this must be the one so then they.

[00:19:40] And it spreads just like that just like how in this doctor she talks about how it spread from her family to like her friends family to her friends father he was like said you like setting it that one of her one of the girls friends father up to like honestly face.

[00:19:57] Criminal charges and this is how it happened so like we really need to be careful on these social media platforms with opening ourselves up.

[00:20:08] You know putting all of our information out there but being very selective and what I realized that was it was.

[00:20:14] Fake fake profile because I haven't realized it the first time you know I didn't realize first like the first fake one that popped up.

[00:20:22] I started it whatever then it then it tried to reach out to me and I was like no because.

[00:20:31] Yes exactly like I know I know the relationship I have with this person and it is not when where we talk on Facebook and yeah.

[00:20:41] Yeah so I immediately shut that down.

[00:20:43] I told my mom and my mom you need to do something because like like there's all of these pages popping up and it's just detrimental but I put all that aside to say I didn't I thought this two parts two parts for the

[00:21:00] dark years I didn't mind it I honestly didn't mind it I didn't there are two parts about 45 minutes each.

[00:21:07] The reason why I didn't mind it is because I felt like they.

[00:21:11] That they were that they broke them up in a way that I was like this this this makes sense to me like again we said that whole first part we were just talking to a few of the survivors and their experiences again I was confused about a lot of the experiences.

[00:21:28] I was confused on the can I tell you a secret thing and then I realized I was like okay he's pretending to be other people to then manipulate this person to be this person and then using this person's photos to do this like it was confusing but I do.

[00:21:44] Like that the survivors got to tell their stories and then part two was the investment investigation aspect and I really thought the PC Kevin Anderson came in strong here at part two and.

[00:21:55] You know we really got more info about about Matthew they reveal who he is up top of the episode and then we like go through his pathos and stuff like that and I just kept sitting there like how do we have so much.

[00:22:10] Actual audio of him and it really made me think Sarah about our discussion just a few weeks ago on as we speak rap rap on trial where London is becoming like a a a a surveillance state.

[00:22:25] And that so much of it was like directly from him was very very interesting but I mean there are there are definitely some aspects of this.

[00:22:36] Docu series that I would change but I didn't think it was like that I didn't think it was like I wasted my time like I'm mad I didn't feel like my emotions were being manipulated I didn't feel like the story was manipulative or I was being led.

[00:22:54] I felt like they were trying to tell me a story and they may have just missed the mark slightly.

[00:23:03] Missed the mark on on details or I think it was there's to be that talked about you know you go down the road and there's a really interesting side road there but we're not going to go down it and there's an interesting side road there but we're not going to go down it.

[00:23:20] I wasn't other than the boys like that other than the I mean I look if I was giving notes I would say don't do that voice but it's a it's a directorial decision and neither of us is right or wrong.

[00:23:33] It's a matter of taste. No I agree I didn't like that either. I did not.

[00:23:38] Yeah other than that it's not it's not painful to sit through by any means exactly.

[00:23:45] Like with hellcam I felt very cool watching it you know particularly as we say we love talking to victims we don't like hearing from perpetrators but in the end there's a there's a

[00:23:57] That again that unsatisfied feeling we talk about watching docu series and documentaries and then going off and doing some some side gouging that can be very exciting because a documentary can't cover absolutely everything that you want to know.

[00:24:13] But it shouldn't leave you wanting more in a bad way it should leave you wanting more in a very your interest is peaked you're given a really good grounding of the situation or the case or the societal aspect of it and you go off and you do side things.

[00:24:29] There are the ones like Jared that just don't tell you anything and you got to wake up.

[00:24:35] There are ones that put in bad information and then there are ones like this which are good as far as it goes but it didn't go far enough.

[00:24:46] It's sort of just boil my ratings what I would what I would say I think it's worth talking about PC Kevin Anderson says he's a PC so it's only a constable.

[00:24:56] And or as we say in this country when we talk to them constable.

[00:25:00] Well he I would have let to know why what was it that but again this is something that I don't I don't criticize the filmmakers for not putting in that's just something in my mind where I say well that's interesting.

[00:25:16] What is it about this case that made you want to make it the case that defines your career which is what he what he talks about it is.

[00:25:26] Yeah which by the way I would say I really hated the fact that part two started out with Kevin Anderson and with him talking about how every officer has one big case of their career because to me that's just an indication that you're ignoring all the other cases that you should be paying attention to as we saw throughout the series.

[00:25:47] And it's funny because he's like I mean we could have started out with Leah in part two as one of the heroes we could have started with Sabrina even I'm just saying there are other people that I would have put in that spot other than Kevin Anderson because what like why do we have to

[00:26:07] make a statue for Kevin Anderson and like honor him and celebrate him.

[00:26:21] It's interesting like we could have we could have really continued from where part one left off but that's just a stylistic choice.

[00:26:31] I mean it was it just it was in one way the decision was good because it took you back 10 years but if you're going to go back 10 years let's start with Neenie who was right his schoolmate and and clearly one of his early victims and also got a legal judgment against him which was not followed through on by the police.

[00:26:49] We could have started with Seren Kale who I think was woefully underused here she's an investigative journalist so she she when you lens in in part one with the three of the very current victims then if you start part two with Seren Kale.

[00:27:08] You can lens back and say right this is an overall aspect that we're going to see this case as emblematic of or as part of or something like that yeah.

[00:27:20] I I wasn't as unsatisfied at the end only because I was like oh he got nine years like when we got a peel I was like oh eight years that's so good like I.

[00:27:31] Yes so good yeah I was scared this is going to be one of them documentary you go through all this you go through the hoors at these victims in survivor space and then they get they walk you know I was like oh god but I thought that was I thought that was pretty good it's like I don't know man it's it's hard to really go in depth on this on this property because I almost feel like it's a half a step up.

[00:28:01] From a one episode I the discovery like people investigate you know saying like yeah.

[00:28:10] Like and not in a bad way it's just in a way that like we're used to breaking down documentaries and stuff that have maybe just a a bit more substance.

[00:28:22] I don't want to say that in a way that diminishes the stories of the survivors and the victims but it just feels like I guess what Sarah is saying is there's no commentary to society as a whole so it's like we can't.

[00:28:37] Critique it on what it's trying to say to us about society as a whole all were presented is the the case itself and.

[00:28:47] We've already said that he was in a way that was as palatable as it could have been so I don't know what else to be powerful really right in the tesh are gone the the other director having a look at her credits there they're very sort of creditable.

[00:29:06] Of like a like an episode of an ID discovery or something like that and there's absolutely a place for those stories but those are just the stories I mean date line never talks about broad societal issues and it does a fantastic job of bringing us cases and we watch them and we might think about them I mean I don't want to be told what to think.

[00:29:29] But when it's set up as prestige almost I mean not quite but as if you're going to say well we're not that we're not a one episode you know television serial about you know bad men bad women.

[00:29:45] Then give us something broader and I think that this director that that help capitalizer I think she wants to and I think she has the capability of it.

[00:29:59] But it just maybe she needs better story editors maybe she needs better producers I don't know she certainly picks very O.

[00:30:09] Coron subjects they are things that we're thinking about right now so she's she's very on the button she's very contemporary with her with her thoughts and with her selection of subjects.

[00:30:22] And she glances at what we're wanting I mean are we wanting too much from her Matt in this sort of middle ground.

[00:30:32] I don't know I don't think so I mean I think it's okay for us to follow the breadcrumbs that she's laying down so for me when we're starting out the series really focusing on the social media aspects we're focusing on okay this is an influencer slash model and like this is how they're using social media and the joy and freedom that it gives them.

[00:30:56] And that was really what we had established at the beginning just the freedom with social media and posting on it.

[00:31:03] And I really did appreciate how that was in contrast with this fear and captivity that they faced along the way as they're being victimized by Matthew Hardy.

[00:31:16] And I just wish that we would have gone more into that I wish there would have been like I don't it's okay if we don't hear from the social media platforms but it would have been nice to have that aspect at least covered because I do think that the story that they were setting up was.

[00:31:34] Or maybe the point they were trying to make Mari to the larger societal aspect of this is be careful on social media you never know what to expect your happy go lucky and enjoying this.

[00:31:46] But someone like Matthew Hardy might be out there and exploiting the information that's there exploiting your accounts, explain the trust that you have from others.

[00:31:55] But we didn't really go into that even though that to me seemed to be the centerpiece of this story beyond just the crime and what happened I feel like it was really about social media at the heart of it.

[00:32:08] So that's interesting because I don't think that's what I got from and I think if that's what they were trying to do, they will fully miss the mark.

[00:32:16] I thought it was more like a

[00:32:21] A comment on cyber stocking and stocking in general and how like they made a point to be like this rarely happens that these guys get caught.

[00:32:30] Police normally just brush it off.

[00:32:33] I think if anything they talked to the victims a lot about like how did it make you feel that you went to the police and they did nothing about it and they really harped on that and then how these women were feeling and stuff like that.

[00:32:49] And then at the end, they really played up the it was kind of a swerve because they played it up like.

[00:32:54] Oh yeah, he he played guilty, which means it's a reduction of sentence by 25% you only get 13.5 you know and then we get the swerve where it's like oh no, he actually is doing like hard time and stuff like that.

[00:33:08] So I almost thought it was more of commentary on

[00:33:12] Cyber stocking and how it how behind the police are behind maybe some of our laws are on being able to prosecute cyber stockers.

[00:33:23] Yeah, so I agree with that in terms of the execution. That's what it did really effectively looking at part one specifically.

[00:33:32] I think that I felt like that's what they were establishing the focus on social media.

[00:33:36] Then we get Kevin Anderson introduced we get others introduced where they're going more into it like I don't even know how much they use like the word stocking in part one, which was just notable to me because to me it was very clearly stocking.

[00:33:56] But again, they were really focused on the victims or survivors and their experiences Abby, Leah, Zoe.

[00:34:04] So it that maybe is like the piece for me that was that felt a little disjointed and you know you could say it makes sense to have these as two parts for that reason but part one seemed to do something.

[00:34:16] And we very different very different than what part.

[00:34:19] I can I can I can definitely see that.

[00:34:23] Yeah, I mean, I think of you know if you were to divide it part one is is very effective in doing what it does.

[00:34:30] And it shows us young women online joyful and having fun and being free and there's nothing that a certain type of man hates more than see young women.

[00:34:43] Free enjoy.

[00:34:45] And enjoying themselves and the punishment that you get for that and Murray, I think you're right to see I mean lots of real and it's right but to see them sort of cowering behind a curtain and not going out.

[00:34:59] And describing that feeling of I don't even go out anymore. I don't trust anybody.

[00:35:05] One girl lost her boyfriend because the boyfriend got a message to say, oh she went out to the club and got it off with a security guard and she was wearing these clothes.

[00:35:17] And he couldn't trust her when she said it wasn't true. We have another situation where a wedding we didn't get the end of that story that was frustrating.

[00:35:24] And I think we're a wedding of some friends almost broke up or actually broke up because of messages for the groom to be.

[00:35:32] So I thought all of that was was very effective then the miss I'm going to say mess the mess of part two and I think where it where it redeemed itself was we were so excited that he got charged and convicted with nine years, I think sometimes we have such a disappointment when people get off or

[00:35:54] get a light sentence or get let out early. And so this was sort of we could all go yay nine years.

[00:36:00] So yeah, a mixed bag for me, a licorice all sorts.

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[00:38:36] Let's just go straight into our magnifying glasses and you can put any final thoughts in your rating.

[00:38:43] So Matt, of course we start with you. How many magnifying glasses are you gonna rate? Can I tell you a secret?

[00:38:49] No, it's one of the most possible five.

[00:38:54] Well, the one, so it's interesting because my list of negatives was so much longer than my list of positives but the positive, the huge positive for me was the focus on the victims and their voices and centering them.

[00:39:09] And I was worried that part two was getting away from that and then it really came back by the end strong focusing on the victim Leah with just the five like the files and files in five 700 pages, I believe.

[00:39:15] the files and files and 700 pages I believe.

[00:39:19] So I wanted to give this a low rating,

[00:39:23] but I'm gonna go with two,

[00:39:26] could I do half magnifying glass?

[00:39:27] Yeah, I do whatever I want.

[00:39:29] Two and a half magnifying glasses

[00:39:31] is what I have to give it.

[00:39:32] Just because I wish that I do wish it would've gone deeper

[00:39:36] into certain aspects,

[00:39:37] I wish it would've been more clear chronologically.

[00:39:41] I think there's a way of centering,

[00:39:44] I know there's a way of centering the victims

[00:39:46] while also telling a story that's based on

[00:39:50] what Matthew Hardy was doing in his crimes.

[00:39:56] And so like we could've gone through from 2010 onward,

[00:39:59] I think it's also interesting to think

[00:40:00] about the evolution of social media,

[00:40:02] which we've all been around and alive to see,

[00:40:05] but we didn't go there.

[00:40:07] So I'm sticking with my two and a half magnifying glasses

[00:40:10] out of five, which I think is pretty solid.

[00:40:13] I agree.

[00:40:14] Sarah, how many magnifying glasses are you gonna read

[00:40:16] this Darky series out of a possible five?

[00:40:20] Well, I'm going to go to 0.5.

[00:40:24] I have to say I like it more after our discussion,

[00:40:28] but when I reflect that when I gave Hell Camp,

[00:40:32] initially two and then 2.5,

[00:40:34] I said, but I'm still recommending that you watch it

[00:40:37] with Hell Camp.

[00:40:39] I'm giving this 2.5,

[00:40:41] and I'm not recommending that you watch it.

[00:40:42] Because I mean, look, turn it on

[00:40:45] and have it out of the corner of your eye.

[00:40:46] You're not actually going to get stuff

[00:40:49] that you don't already know.

[00:40:50] If you, you know, our listeners are very smart,

[00:40:52] they think about this sort of,

[00:40:54] they think about social justice,

[00:40:56] they think about the legal system.

[00:40:59] They think about the voices of victims being important.

[00:41:02] I just think in Hell Camp there was more to recommend

[00:41:05] it as a watch.

[00:41:08] Again, the same problems, the muddled timelines,

[00:41:11] the, who was there?

[00:41:13] What did they do?

[00:41:14] The same thing.

[00:41:15] So I'm going to say 2.5 and not recommend that you watch it.

[00:41:19] Mary, how about you?

[00:41:21] Yeah, I think it's a clean sweep across the board.

[00:41:25] I too will give it a 2.5.

[00:41:28] I came in thinking it was very middle of the road.

[00:41:31] Again, I did not dislike it.

[00:41:33] I will say it is prime cleaning your house,

[00:41:39] you know, cleaning your house with true crime on viewing.

[00:41:45] But I say that to say I did have to rewind a few times

[00:41:50] because I was like, I was like, wait, what happened?

[00:41:53] I was getting a little lost in the survivor's narratives

[00:42:00] about what was going on with them.

[00:42:01] So I did have to remind like a few times.

[00:42:04] So maybe it is one of those ones you got to pay attention to,

[00:42:09] but you know, I didn't, like I said,

[00:42:12] maybe the bar is in Hell,

[00:42:14] but I did not find it like flat out just non-injoyable

[00:42:21] like Jared and Subway or you know,

[00:42:24] or you know, I just killed my dad.

[00:42:29] So.

[00:42:31] You gave up just called my dad three stars, Mary.

[00:42:33] I think you're misremembering your.

[00:42:38] No, I remember the ratings and I remembered the response.

[00:42:42] I remember being like I didn't like how I just killed my dad felt

[00:42:45] like it was manipulating my manipulative.

[00:42:47] Yes, exactly.

[00:42:48] Yeah, yeah.

[00:42:50] So in that I couldn't watch this second time.

[00:42:55] So like, but I still thought the property overall wasn't too bad.

[00:43:00] And I think that that lends more well to SkyBoardman's production

[00:43:04] of the property.

[00:43:05] This one, you know, I think the story is good.

[00:43:10] I think the production actually fails the story here.

[00:43:14] Well said.

[00:43:15] Well said.

[00:43:16] Yeah, I mean, I think if you're going,

[00:43:18] if you're going to clean, then watch episode one eating your lunch

[00:43:22] and then have episode two on as you clean.

[00:43:25] Yeah, oh my gosh.

[00:43:26] Perfect.

[00:43:27] I don't know if I would, I don't know if I could watch episode one eating.

[00:43:31] But I will say like it is they really did try to do.

[00:43:40] I don't know if they tried to do a lot with this.

[00:43:41] They did do a lot of things that I really appreciated and watching it.

[00:43:45] I actually ended up like sort of watching it the first time

[00:43:50] not paying too close attention.

[00:43:51] And then I actually watched it twice.

[00:43:53] Leave it or not.

[00:43:54] I watched it the second time on like faster speed.

[00:43:57] Thank you Netflix app on my phone.

[00:43:59] But I will say that one of the things for me

[00:44:02] that was just a little off with all of this

[00:44:07] was that you could, you could like,

[00:44:10] you don't have to dive so deep into all the questions

[00:44:14] that could come up or all of the shiny roads,

[00:44:18] yellow brick roads, detours.

[00:44:21] You don't have to go down there.

[00:44:23] You don't need to go down there.

[00:44:24] You just need someone verbally to acknowledge those facts

[00:44:28] or just make a comment like, yeah, well, social media platforms.

[00:44:33] I'm stuck on that because it's so huge and timely as well.

[00:44:37] But just acknowledge and move on.

[00:44:39] But a lot was acknowledged.

[00:44:41] And yet I do still think this was powerful.

[00:44:45] I will also say something that was acknowledged for me

[00:44:48] there was a lot of blonde women.

[00:44:50] Almost all blonde women.

[00:44:52] I had trouble at the beginning,

[00:44:54] separating Zoe and Abby.

[00:44:59] Yeah.

[00:45:00] Abby and Leah.

[00:45:01] And then Leah, it's a little bit.

[00:45:04] And I was like, what did you do?

[00:45:05] Leah had to add to that conversation

[00:45:09] other than how Leah was feeling.

[00:45:12] Like, yeah.

[00:45:12] And like, right, it was about protecting her

[00:45:16] and yeah, protecting her and then talking to the door man

[00:45:20] and all of that stuff.

[00:45:21] So the piece of that that's interesting to me

[00:45:25] is that they took time to film those interviews,

[00:45:29] which I can only imagine how much production time

[00:45:32] that takes to film talking with Maria.

[00:45:35] And then Leah's mom, that is and not really using that for much.

[00:45:40] It's fascinating to think how they put this all together

[00:45:43] and produce it.

[00:45:44] Maybe Maria was in the room and they said,

[00:45:46] OK, let's just film something with you.

[00:45:48] Yeah.

[00:45:50] Yeah.

[00:45:51] All right, so let's move on to our recommendations.

[00:45:54] Matt, do you have anything to recommend to our listeners?

[00:45:57] I do.

[00:45:58] And I just have to say, Marie, I appreciate

[00:46:01] what you were saying about your grandma being duped scams.

[00:46:09] You end all the above.

[00:46:10] I'll be in bamboozled.

[00:46:11] I'm social media.

[00:46:13] Bamboozled?

[00:46:13] Well, she was bamboozled.

[00:46:15] But people are being bamboozled by Catfish Her.

[00:46:18] And so I will say, I've given this recommendation before.

[00:46:23] But I once recommend that people listen to one of my favorite

[00:46:28] podcasts, scam goddess, host of barely, mostly,

[00:46:32] not because it's funny but it really

[00:46:34] does make you aware of scams.

[00:46:36] I was just talking with my mom a couple of weeks ago

[00:46:40] and she was like, have you ever been scammed?

[00:46:42] And I actually probably shouldn't talk about this on the podcast

[00:46:45] because someone's going to try to really deeply scam me.

[00:46:47] But I was saying, when you are aware of the scams that

[00:46:51] are out there and you just stand on top of it

[00:46:53] and you stay skeptical.

[00:46:54] Believe me, if I have a family member texting me from a number

[00:46:59] I don't know or in a weird way, I'm not responding.

[00:47:02] I will leave my family hanging.

[00:47:04] And I told my mom, and I told her if it's me,

[00:47:07] if someone's pretending to be me, which by the way,

[00:47:10] there was a text that was like scammy,

[00:47:14] where that type of thing don't respond.

[00:47:17] Leave me in jail or wherever I'm trying to.

[00:47:21] Please don't pay the ransom.

[00:47:22] So scam goddess is a great podcast

[00:47:24] to just get you thinking about those things.

[00:47:26] And I think the best lesson which I believe also applies here

[00:47:32] is just to slow down and to not react so quickly.

[00:47:37] Like, take time to think.

[00:47:39] Don't freak out and maybe call up your friend or family

[00:47:43] member first and foremost before responding.

[00:47:46] Exactly.

[00:47:46] Scams require you to make a decision right then and there.

[00:47:51] I almost got scammed.

[00:47:54] Was it me?

[00:47:56] Was it someone who said me?

[00:47:57] Did they speak me?

[00:47:59] No, it was an Amazon scam.

[00:48:01] Oh no, I got it.

[00:48:03] Yeah, so I got like a message saying like,

[00:48:06] oh, on your Amazon account somebody ordered laptops.

[00:48:11] Yeah.

[00:48:12] Call us and call us and see so I called the dude.

[00:48:18] I know, I know.

[00:48:19] And he was like, yeah, he's like, OK,

[00:48:22] let me get access to your account.

[00:48:25] Like, OK, yeah, I see the purchases of the iPhones

[00:48:29] of the iPads but we can return it.

[00:48:33] So just go into your bank account

[00:48:36] and give me your bank account and we'll give it back.

[00:48:39] I was like, no, this doesn't sound right.

[00:48:43] And I was like, I was like if it's I said and I had looked

[00:48:47] because nothing had posted.

[00:48:48] And I was like, no, I have a federal, I have a credit union.

[00:48:53] So if it gets if it gets posted,

[00:48:56] I can just literally call my bank and tell them that,

[00:49:00] you know, this is this is not a purchase I made.

[00:49:02] And he's like, no, no, no, no, I can do it.

[00:49:05] Just give me your information.

[00:49:07] Let's go into it.

[00:49:08] He was like, trying to walk me through on the computer.

[00:49:10] I was like, no, I was like, let me go ask my husband.

[00:49:14] He was like using the patriarchy.

[00:49:18] I did too.

[00:49:20] And then as soon as I said that he like hung up,

[00:49:24] I was like, oh, no.

[00:49:26] You got you got to be careful when yeah,

[00:49:29] because when you're googling like when you're googling

[00:49:33] major companies, sometimes that first

[00:49:37] that first thing that pops up is not that company.

[00:49:43] Like a good like nine times out of 10

[00:49:44] because that's what I did.

[00:49:45] I googled like Amazon customer service

[00:49:47] and that was not Amazon customer service.

[00:49:50] I remember somebody, somebody I know got kind of scam

[00:49:53] by like the post office,

[00:49:55] they just wanted to change their address

[00:49:57] and they googled like change their address

[00:49:59] for the post office ended up paying like $90.

[00:50:02] Oh my gosh.

[00:50:03] The change their address.

[00:50:04] The address got changed because they did the paperwork.

[00:50:08] But if you do the paperwork yourself, it's $15.

[00:50:11] It's like $10.

[00:50:13] What a scam.

[00:50:14] What a scam and I also just add in here

[00:50:16] speaking of scammy text messages.

[00:50:18] I know we're going down a rabbit hole here.

[00:50:20] Might as well.

[00:50:21] We got one more time.

[00:50:22] Multiple times.

[00:50:23] I have multiple times gotten texts

[00:50:25] that are pretending to be my boss

[00:50:27] or my executive director at work saying Matt

[00:50:30] I need you to do something.

[00:50:32] Let me tell you whether or not that's a scam,

[00:50:35] please use the official channels,

[00:50:38] use the official emails.

[00:50:40] And I've also gotten those before.

[00:50:42] But like look, take your time slow down.

[00:50:46] It's okay.

[00:50:47] Nothing's that urgent.

[00:50:48] Think check the sources of it.

[00:50:50] Double check with the people that you're used to checking

[00:50:53] with in the ways that you need to.

[00:50:55] Yeah.

[00:50:55] Just like don't let this be you.

[00:50:57] Because technically you can talk you literally.

[00:50:59] No links.

[00:51:00] No links.

[00:51:01] Yeah do not click any links.

[00:51:03] Technically in this documentary,

[00:51:05] that's how it gets kicked off with like Zoe

[00:51:08] the fire the fire dancer right?

[00:51:12] Yes.

[00:51:12] Yes.

[00:51:13] Zoe yes.

[00:51:13] She gets a message from one of her co-workers

[00:51:17] like I'm so sorry,

[00:51:18] I thought I was talking to you and I realized

[00:51:22] I wasn't you know what I'm saying?

[00:51:24] Like he checked in with her because he was getting

[00:51:28] scam basically.

[00:51:29] No you weren't girl you slack.

[00:51:31] No one's hacking into my slack to pretend

[00:51:33] exactly like no you can't do that.

[00:51:35] Exactly.

[00:51:36] Yeah so yeah so stay vigilant.

[00:51:39] Stay vigilant out there.

[00:51:40] Stay vigilant.

[00:51:41] Oh yeah.

[00:51:42] Because if it's real,

[00:51:43] it's fine I got a text and an email in the middle

[00:51:47] of the night here in Australia from the portal

[00:51:50] that has me American dollars which I'm very happy for

[00:51:54] saying you have recently changed your personal slash

[00:51:58] financial details if this wasn't you.

[00:52:01] This was you whatever and I thought no that's definitely

[00:52:04] not right but I screen shot it and then I went to the

[00:52:09] internet and I got the correct address,

[00:52:12] sent it to them and I went through all of that

[00:52:14] and meanwhile it was actually them

[00:52:16] and there'd been a glitch which they sent

[00:52:18] they then sent a follow up email to everybody

[00:52:20] that had happened to plus they answered my inquiry.

[00:52:25] So you will find out there's nothing urgent

[00:52:28] you will find out if it's real or not in the time

[00:52:31] to come yeah.

[00:52:32] But I will also stay beyond just watching up

[00:52:36] for links and all.

[00:52:37] I really love a lesson that I took away

[00:52:39] from this docky series from Zoe.

[00:52:42] You might have missed it but get a samurai sword like

[00:52:46] I'm telling you.

[00:52:46] Oh, I have very important.

[00:52:49] I'm shocked that you have.

[00:52:50] I thought of you, Marikas.

[00:52:51] I know you are a sword family.

[00:52:54] Yes we are.

[00:52:55] We are believe in you.

[00:52:57] Good to know.

[00:52:58] Letty everybody know out there.

[00:53:00] I might.

[00:53:01] I might need to talk about it.

[00:53:02] Don't go around to Maris place everybody.

[00:53:05] You're in for a short shop shock.

[00:53:07] Sarah what do you have to recommend to our listeners?

[00:53:13] Well don't laugh but I'm going to recommend

[00:53:19] Elspeth on Paramount Plus.

[00:53:21] Yes!

[00:53:22] Yes.

[00:53:23] Okay.

[00:53:24] Is this an ad?

[00:53:25] Yes.

[00:53:26] Right.

[00:53:27] I hope we get to meet them.

[00:53:29] And let me continue.

[00:53:32] I have a point.

[00:53:34] So those of us in the survivor community are disposed

[00:53:37] to be very anti-Elspeth because there were relentless

[00:53:43] promo's of the show during the two hour premiere of

[00:53:46] Survival 46.

[00:53:49] And I thought I'm definitely not watching that but it's such

[00:53:52] a charming character played by Carrie Preston who's such a

[00:53:56] watchable, likable, interesting actor.

[00:54:00] This character comes from The Good Wife and The Good Fight.

[00:54:04] Oh really?

[00:54:05] Yeah I thought she was it might have been a little bit like

[00:54:09] a little spice that you only need in bits.

[00:54:13] I did worry that a whole show centered on her would be too much

[00:54:18] but I am going to soft recommend Elspeth.

[00:54:22] It's very entertaining and the murders aren't real which is a

[00:54:28] very nice relief to us true folks.

[00:54:31] So if you've been put off watching Elspeth because of the

[00:54:35] relentless promos, do you have to try?

[00:54:38] It's a nothing it's a little marshmallow and you eat it

[00:54:43] and you're happy and you move on and you completely forget it in 10

[00:54:45] minutes.

[00:54:46] So my recommendation is Elspeth.

[00:54:50] Maury what about you?

[00:54:53] I'm going to recommend our other property that we considered

[00:54:57] American conspiracy, the octopus murders also on Netflix.

[00:55:02] I watched it because yeah because I was like just in case I want

[00:55:06] to like make a switch.

[00:55:08] That one is a four part docu series and there's no way like

[00:55:13] it is it's very interesting but it's thick like it is thick

[00:55:19] like this one yeah and how the on say is felt it that's how

[00:55:27] big it is.

[00:55:30] And so like I almost I almost not because it centers on a reporter

[00:55:35] who was who people think may have been murdered.

[00:55:39] They the police rule it a suicide but it's under very

[00:55:45] strange circumstances and he was happened he just so

[00:55:50] happened to be investigating what he coined as the octopus

[00:55:56] murders which is this giant conspiracy that starts with everybody's

[00:56:01] favorite president Ronald Reagan.

[00:56:04] The president who is a Barack Obama.

[00:56:07] I think I'll hand it away or the US.

[00:56:10] And how his how he had his tentacles and all of these maybe

[00:56:15] murders and conspiracies that this it is a lot.

[00:56:20] It is a lot I was riveted but I was scared.

[00:56:24] I was like oh my god if this really is everything that they say

[00:56:29] there there it is our government is the boogie man you know

[00:56:33] what I'm saying like the it really is.

[00:56:35] I almost like I said I always wanted to have I really wanted

[00:56:39] to have Matt watch it because it like again the journalism

[00:56:42] aspect is really interesting to me.

[00:56:45] But there are so many like this is a red thread like you're

[00:56:50] going to need four schools of red thread type of thing and they

[00:56:55] do a great job of timelines they do a pretty good job of trying

[00:57:00] to tell you all the main players but honestly there's just

[00:57:04] so many that it can get overwhelming but I thought it was a

[00:57:09] complete job of not only that but I was going to make a

[00:57:12] lot of effort and it's just been a really good job of

[00:57:16] trying to help me with the work that I do.

[00:57:19] I'm so happy that I'm getting watched as somebody who loves

[00:57:23] like American scandal government scandal type of properties

[00:57:26] I've talked about different podcasts that I've like that deal

[00:57:29] with government my father and my mother are both in the

[00:57:33] military with top secret clearances and stuff like that.

[00:57:36] anybody listens, I will definitely recommend it.

[00:57:39] If you guys go and watch it,

[00:57:41] tell me what you think because it's so much.

[00:57:44] But they had me at hello in the first episode

[00:57:47] where the reporter is found dead in a bathtub

[00:57:50] with his wrist slits at a hotel

[00:57:53] and they're like oh, it was suicide.

[00:57:56] Why was his wrist cut where it was like

[00:57:59] eight cuts on one hand, six cuts on the other?

[00:58:03] They're so deep that the tendons are sliced.

[00:58:07] And we should all know that once your tendons are sliced,

[00:58:11] you can't hold anything.

[00:58:13] So yeah.

[00:58:15] Very suspicious to say the least.

[00:58:17] So that had me hooked and they talked to a lot of people

[00:58:23] and it was very interesting.

[00:58:24] So definitely go check it out.

[00:58:25] Let me know what you think.

[00:58:27] There's no way we could cover it here.

[00:58:29] It there is just, it is just too much.

[00:58:31] And yet we almost did.

[00:58:33] We're here.

[00:58:36] Listeners, remember that we have a speak pipe

[00:58:38] and if you want to send us your reviews of anything

[00:58:42] or argue with us or agree with us,

[00:58:45] you can record a speak pipe

[00:58:47] and we happily put it onto the show.

[00:58:49] And that's SpeakPipe.com slash crime scene.

[00:58:54] Here at crime scene, we are eager to hear your feedback

[00:58:56] and suggestions for future episodes.

[00:58:58] You can follow crime scene on Twitter

[00:59:00] at crime scene RHAP that's at crime SEEN or email us

[00:59:08] at crime scene RHAP at gmail.com.

[00:59:11] We're on TikTok at crime.scene

[00:59:13] and other social media at crime scene podcast.

[00:59:16] And please remember to subscribe to our feed

[00:59:19] robhasaw website.com slash crime feed.

[00:59:22] It makes a huge difference.

[00:59:26] Matt, what do you have going on?

[00:59:29] Where can the people find you?

[00:59:30] Oh, thanks for asking, Mari.

[00:59:32] I never thought you would.

[00:59:34] You could find me at Matt Scott GW on all social media platforms

[00:59:40] except for TikTok because I can't figure out how to

[00:59:45] apparently they count exists.

[00:59:47] It's a whole thing and then TikTok's gonna shut down

[00:59:49] so it's not even worth it anymore

[00:59:51] but I'm on all of the other platforms,

[00:59:54] especially Twitter and Instagram there.

[00:59:57] And I'll also plug.

[01:00:00] I'm gonna skip over plugging the wrestling we're half up

[01:00:02] and I believe that's you Mari as always.

[01:00:04] What a pro Mari is, right?

[01:00:06] Well, you could also find me on the show pod friends here

[01:00:11] on the RHAP network.

[01:00:13] One of the best podcasts in existence.

[01:00:17] Yes.

[01:00:18] Keep going, Sarah.

[01:00:19] Yeah.

[01:00:20] I said no more.

[01:00:23] Rob is a website.

[01:00:25] Rob is a website.com slash pod friends feed again,

[01:00:30] available on all the different platforms.

[01:00:31] You could also find the video versions on the RHAP YouTube channel.

[01:00:36] And one thing that's really fun,

[01:00:38] it's the survivor season,

[01:00:41] that little show that we all love on CBS

[01:00:44] and it's how we all met.

[01:00:46] Yes.

[01:00:46] How we all met the thing that brought us together.

[01:00:48] Well, if you follow at Hey Pod Friends,

[01:00:52] that's H-E-Y pod friends, not H-A-Y pod friends.

[01:00:56] Oh, yeah.

[01:00:56] Different account.

[01:00:57] You could just see me posting some of the past episodes

[01:01:00] with former survivor players.

[01:01:03] So that's the main thing I've going on.

[01:01:04] I'm excited for the survivor season.

[01:01:07] I'm excited for other podcasts and things coming up.

[01:01:11] I'm excited for WrestleMania.

[01:01:13] Yeah.

[01:01:14] The biggest WrestleMania ever.

[01:01:17] Lies, but anyway.

[01:01:19] Here we are.

[01:01:20] Yeah, that's really funny.

[01:01:21] Matt Scott, GW.

[01:01:22] And thanks as always for having me.

[01:01:24] But like Sarah, I feel like I should ask you

[01:01:28] where can the people find you?

[01:01:31] Well, the people can find me at Sarah Caradin on all the things

[01:01:35] if that's something they'd like to do.

[01:01:38] Over on Silent Podcasts,

[01:01:39] I have wrapped up my coverage of Australian survivor

[01:01:42] Titans versus Rebels.

[01:01:44] Wow, that winner.

[01:01:46] Incredible.

[01:01:47] I was joined by David Bloomberg to chew over the finale

[01:01:50] and give you a season overview.

[01:01:53] And your Aussie Queens and Abel Fiddler and I

[01:01:56] are covering season two of Alone Australia,

[01:01:59] which starts tomorrow night if you are listening

[01:02:00] to this on the day it drops.

[01:02:03] Our guest for the season premiere

[01:02:04] is original Titan Eden Porter.

[01:02:07] So very excited to talk with him about this amazing show.

[01:02:13] I was talked into the show by our listeners.

[01:02:16] We put out a poll to say what would you like the Aussie

[01:02:19] Queens to cover?

[01:02:20] And overwhelmingly they said Alone Australia.

[01:02:22] And I thought, oh, I suppose so.

[01:02:24] Ripped through season one and I just absolutely love it.

[01:02:27] So I'm very excited.

[01:02:29] And on the weekend, I joined The Cool Kids

[01:02:31] as I played Blood on the Clock Tower with Dwight Moore's.

[01:02:36] Yeah, on Dwight Moore's stream.

[01:02:38] We were all there.

[01:02:40] Yes, no, I either did really well or I didn't do very well at all.

[01:02:43] Have a watch and find out what about you, Barry?

[01:02:47] Of course, if you like more of me and Matt Scott,

[01:02:51] you can find us over on the Wrestling

[01:02:53] Rehap Up podcast where we bring you

[01:02:56] the highlights of the weekend wrestling.

[01:02:58] We're a little over one week away from WrestleMania

[01:03:02] where me and Matt will be in attendance.

[01:03:05] If you want to see video vlogs us

[01:03:08] like going out and about us being at the stadium,

[01:03:12] you can go and follow us on our new YouTube page.

[01:03:16] YouTube.com slash at Wrestling Rehap Up

[01:03:20] that's youtube.com slash at Wrestling RHAP UP.

[01:03:25] We have been having some just phenomenal guests lately

[01:03:30] and it has just been so fun

[01:03:33] and we're on the road to WrestleMania.

[01:03:35] We can't wait to be bringing it live from WrestleMania.

[01:03:41] So definitely please go check us out.

[01:03:43] You can also follow me on Twitter at Mari Talks too much.

[01:03:46] That's two, like the number two over on the recap kickback.

[01:03:52] We have just finished doing our March Madness bracket

[01:03:57] for Black TV sitcom themes.

[01:04:00] Talk about a great time.

[01:04:02] Mia Chappelle and our special guest had such an amazing time

[01:04:06] talking about a very hard bracket over there.

[01:04:10] So if you want to know more, go to recapkickback.com.

[01:04:14] You can subscribe there.

[01:04:15] You can get in on all the fun.

[01:04:17] You can subscribe to the recap kickback YouTube.

[01:04:21] You can go to the recap kickback Facebook group page.

[01:04:24] Like we are really having fun.

[01:04:27] It is a kickback.

[01:04:28] Come and join the conversation as always.

[01:04:32] That's it for me.

[01:04:34] Sarah, what are we watching next week?

[01:04:37] Next time on Crime Scene.

[01:04:39] We're covering me hereafter with Katie

[01:04:42] from A Date With Date Line.

[01:04:44] Watch it on Hulu in the US and Disney in Australia

[01:04:48] and send us your comments and questions.

[01:04:51] Thanks to Max Scott for joining us,

[01:04:53] we're from America for the theme music

[01:04:55] and the whole RHP team behind the scenes.

[01:04:57] Until next time.

[01:04:59] Case closed.

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