Crime Seen | Episode 107: Dancing for the Devil

[00:00:24] Hello everyone, I'm Mari Forth and I'm back. He's back everybody

[00:00:30] Yay

[00:00:32] We missed you. I'm Sarah Carradine. How are you Mari?

[00:00:36] I'm good. I'm glad to be back

[00:00:39] Talk some true crime

[00:00:42] Thank you to SDB for sitting in

[00:00:44] For me you guys have really been holding down the fort. So

[00:00:49] Glad I'm back. That's for sure

[00:00:51] You missed some absolute stinkers

[00:00:58] Yeah, I did that on purpose yep, yeah

[00:01:02] And this is crime scene the true crime review podcast where we get to the heart of how true crime stories are told you can

[00:01:09] Get all the fantastic reality TV content on RHAP by subscribing at RobHasAWebsite.com

[00:01:16] We'd love it

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[00:01:22] Crime feed you'll get your true crime on Tuesdays if you've already subscribed. Thank you so much

[00:01:29] Last week a highly anticipated verdict was handed down in a closely followed court case

[00:01:34] Sarah you have the details? Chad Daybell was found guilty of the murder of his first wife Tammy and

[00:01:41] The two children of his second wife Laurie Vallow

[00:01:44] the children's names were Joshua who was called JJ he was 7 and

[00:01:49] Tylee who was 16 as of this recording the Idaho jury is considering the death penalty for Chad Daybell

[00:01:58] Laurie Vallow was convicted in May of conspiracy and first-degree murder charges in her children's deaths and

[00:02:04] conspiracy to murder Tammy

[00:02:07] Vallow received multiple life sentences

[00:02:11] Still to be resolved our charges against Laurie Vallow of conspiring to kill her fourth husband Charles Vallow and

[00:02:19] Conspiring to kill her niece's ex-husband Brandon Bordreau. There are many podcasts and episodes about this case

[00:02:28] There is a recent docuseries called sins of our mother on Netflix

[00:02:33] I know I watched it when it first came out a while ago. It was okay. I mean

[00:02:39] Typical it's okay. It's the same story. There's nothing new to say

[00:02:43] They're terrible terrible people and they if a if aid and they're now

[00:02:49] effing oh

[00:02:51] And that was the only conviction of note on the 30th of May as I recall

[00:02:57] Yeah

[00:03:00] Last week Sarah D bunting Mark Blankenship, and I watched cooking up murder

[00:03:05] Ashley Madison six lies and scandal and

[00:03:08] 20 seasons of law and order a few it was a packed episode

[00:03:12] Murray what did we watch this week?

[00:03:15] This week we watched dancing for the devil the 7m tick-tock Colt

[00:03:20] It's a three-part docuseries on Netflix directed by Derek doneen

[00:03:25] Of course, we wouldn't dream of dancing down these tick-tock streets without our guest

[00:03:29] She helped us unravel the story of Gabby Petito through social media and she's returned today

[00:03:35] It's Nicole horn aka tick-tock Nicole. Welcome back to the scene. How are you? Hi ladies

[00:03:41] I'm so excited you asked me back. I mean, of course with something that is so, you know related to tick-tock

[00:03:47] Of course, you're gonna go to me. I'm in these tick-tock streets

[00:03:51] But you'd think this would be about a tick-tock call we were getting into something way deeper there's religious abuse there's trauma

[00:03:58] so

[00:04:01] But I'm glad to have you guys help me break down everything else that came with it

[00:04:05] Yeah, I mean thanks for bringing that up before we start

[00:04:08] We'd like to let our listeners know that the docuseries and our discussion deal in part with sexual assault

[00:04:14] And if that's not too much of a stretch for you, I'm sure you'll be able to find a link to it

[00:04:18] In the US you can call the National Sexual Assault hotline at 1-800-656-4673

[00:04:24] Or you can go to rain.org. That's

[00:04:28] r-a-i-n-n.org

[00:04:30] And in Australia, you can seek support for sexual assault family and domestic violence at 1-800-RESPECT

[00:04:37] We're also on Facebook and Twitter

[00:04:39] So if you're interested in joining us on social media, please do so

[00:04:43] You can also find support for sexual assault family and domestic violence at 1-800-RESPECT

[00:04:49] That's 1-800-737-732

[00:04:53] Or go to 1-800-RESPECT.com

[00:04:57] Yes

[00:04:59] So let's get to the crime so we can break down this three part docuseries

[00:05:05] 7M is an American talent management agency based in Los Angeles

[00:05:09] It has been described as a cult by the media due to its ties to Robert Shin, pastor of Shekinah Church

[00:05:15] Former members of the church and dancers represented by the management company

[00:05:19] Accused Robert Shin, 7M, and Shekinah of forced labor, failing to pay minimum wages, and unlawful enrichment

[00:05:27] A civil lawsuit is pending and several women have accused Robert Shin of sexual assault

[00:05:34] Unfortunately no criminal charges have been filed

[00:05:37] Which is crazy. I mean you should just show this documentary in the courts

[00:05:41] This is all the evidence you need

[00:05:45] See how these families are crying out for their children that have isolated them, that have iced them out

[00:05:51] And if I were the judge I'd be like guilty

[00:05:53] Exactly. Unfortunately like this three part docuseries points out like operating a cult is technically not illegal

[00:06:03] Yes operating and participating in a cult is not illegal

[00:06:07] It's like whatever illegal activities that happens within the cult itself

[00:06:13] So you know and then on top of that the DA has to be willing to press the charges

[00:06:20] Because they would have to feel like they have enough evidence

[00:06:23] And what we find out is they don't

[00:06:26] But before we jump into all of that, Nicole can I get your overall thoughts about this three part docuseries Broad Strokes

[00:06:35] So it definitely brought a lot of things to light I hadn't known before

[00:06:39] I was chatting with y'all before the show that I remember when you know Melanie Wilking went on Instagram Live with her parents

[00:06:48] And brought you know this to light like I saw this all play out

[00:06:52] But then it kind of just disappeared like mid 2022

[00:06:55] I just kind of forgot that it even happened

[00:06:58] So hearing like that it was more than just like a management agent that seemed a little sketchy

[00:07:03] And in early 2020 when TikTok was blowing up content houses were popping up

[00:07:08] So I just assumed it was something like that

[00:07:11] But no, it goes so much deeper

[00:07:13] There's layers to this people you know their religion is getting preyed on

[00:07:17] Their vulnerability is getting preyed on

[00:07:19] And I would have never you know known that full aspect unless I'd seen this documentary

[00:07:24] And I had no idea that it was you know the Shikai church

[00:07:28] I don't know if I pronounced that right

[00:07:30] But a perfect look at me remembering things

[00:07:34] I didn't know that it had like you know members for 20-30 years

[00:07:40] This was so much bigger than just a TikTok dance cult

[00:07:43] And I'm glad to hear that we got to hear not only from like the social media influencers

[00:07:48] But from people that you know had experienced you know abuse at the hands of Robert Chin

[00:07:54] And I'm gonna say his name because I would like it to be known

[00:07:57] The fact that I didn't know he was behind this until this documentary

[00:08:00] Like we should be blasting his name out

[00:08:02] So that more people are aware of the shady stuff he's up to

[00:08:06] Agreed, agreed and that's a great way to put all of that

[00:08:10] This was definitely an iceberg style docuseries which I think really worked

[00:08:15] Sarah what are your thoughts about the docuseries?

[00:08:18] Well I went into this not really knowing very much

[00:08:22] I mean the whole idea of you know hype houses and creative houses

[00:08:26] I think it's such a great, it can be such a great and a positive

[00:08:30] You're pulling our LED cuts

[00:08:32] Come on!

[00:08:34] You know it's the same as cohorts in my early youth as an artist

[00:08:39] We had, not formal but you know there were groups that we came up together

[00:08:44] We worked on each other's shows

[00:08:46] We did collaborations

[00:08:48] So it's just a slight you know formalisation of that

[00:08:51] What's different is the money making aspect

[00:08:55] And I hadn't really thought that much about it

[00:08:58] And I think one of the things that this

[00:09:00] I think iceberg is the perfect description Mari

[00:09:04] Because one of the things that the docuseries does

[00:09:06] Is it just drops little ideas in your head and you get to think about it

[00:09:09] It doesn't necessarily go down winding side paths

[00:09:14] It lets you do that

[00:09:16] And one of the things that it does mention and move on

[00:09:19] Was something I was already noticing before

[00:09:21] Which is you take people from disadvantaged backgrounds

[00:09:25] You take people who don't feel they have power in society

[00:09:30] And you make money from them

[00:09:33] And you are now, you Robert Chin

[00:09:36] Are now a leader as it were

[00:09:41] Or a force that these young kids

[00:09:45] And they are young

[00:09:47] Feel like, first of all they feel grateful

[00:09:50] Oh somebody plucked me off the streets

[00:09:52] And saw my talent which I knew I had

[00:09:55] I knew I had

[00:09:57] And they bloody hell they do

[00:09:59] They are incredible

[00:10:01] Somebody saw me, somebody appreciates me

[00:10:04] Someone is offering me housing and money

[00:10:06] Like the money of these contracts that he is offering these kids

[00:10:11] Then they get in there

[00:10:12] Then there is fees and fees and fees

[00:10:15] And they end up with $100 a fortnight

[00:10:18] But that manufactured gratitude

[00:10:22] That he made them express towards him

[00:10:25] I think kept them all in there

[00:10:27] So you are thinking about that societal thing

[00:10:29] Why isn't there something that uplifts and enriches these children

[00:10:34] That we as a community give them

[00:10:37] Then it opens up into the background of the religious side of it

[00:10:44] Or the quasi-religious side of it I will say

[00:10:46] It sounded like he was making most of it up

[00:10:49] And you see this very

[00:10:56] We don't like hearing from the perpetrator

[00:10:58] But here it was very interesting, Marian

[00:11:01] I liked the section where they went back into all his failed enterprises

[00:11:04] And you think oh that's who you are

[00:11:07] So he is a doctor that becomes a pastor

[00:11:09] Because he wants that admiration from a flock

[00:11:12] Then he tries a film studio

[00:11:14] And he tries this and he tries that

[00:11:16] He has a real estate

[00:11:17] He has so many businesses

[00:11:20] First of all money making

[00:11:22] That's clearly very important to him

[00:11:24] And he tells his parishioners they should give him money

[00:11:26] Enrich the pastor

[00:11:27] And then somehow dot, dot, dot

[00:11:29] Spiritual health

[00:11:31] I don't know quite what the dot, dot in the middle is

[00:11:35] But also it speaks of a man who has this Napoleon complex

[00:11:40] He wants to be at the top of the heap

[00:11:43] And I think it's very interesting that one of the young black men

[00:11:46] Who gets brought to the church by his girlfriend

[00:11:49] And goes not for me

[00:11:51] He is watching the church service

[00:11:52] He says oh yeah he went to a black church

[00:11:55] He went to a black church and brought it back

[00:11:58] So it's again that performative aspect

[00:12:00] That external aspect

[00:12:02] There is nothing coming from a warm fuzzy interior

[00:12:06] It's all coming from that external view of himself

[00:12:10] That he wants society to have

[00:12:12] Mari what did you think?

[00:12:13] Yeah and shout out to him

[00:12:15] That's Marquis Richardson

[00:12:16] He is actually a famous actor

[00:12:18] So lucky he did not get sucked into the church

[00:12:23] But he was able to help his friend escape

[00:12:26] Which is like amazing

[00:12:28] Yeah I agree with what both of you guys said

[00:12:31] I thought this three part docu-series

[00:12:33] Like oh my gosh

[00:12:34] I love when stuff pleasantly surprises me

[00:12:37] That's why I called it an Iceberg docu-series

[00:12:40] Because you know with the Netflix

[00:12:43] How they marketed it

[00:12:46] It was just like oh it's a TikTok dance call

[00:12:49] And I had never heard any of that

[00:12:50] None of this I've heard

[00:12:52] I love stuff where it's like

[00:12:54] This was three years ago

[00:12:56] I had no clue

[00:12:58] You know what I'm saying?

[00:12:59] I think I got on TikTok maybe

[00:13:02] When did we get?

[00:13:03] Two years ago maybe-ish

[00:13:05] Something like that

[00:13:06] I don't even know

[00:13:07] Within the last year or two

[00:13:08] I got on TikTok

[00:13:09] So it just always reminds me of like

[00:13:11] There's always like

[00:13:12] Like Two Americas going on

[00:13:14] Like there's this stuff

[00:13:15] Like you don't even know that's happening

[00:13:18] And that's so fascinating to me

[00:13:19] But anyways

[00:13:22] So I

[00:13:23] When you hear TikTok cult

[00:13:24] You're just like

[00:13:25] Oh that can't be anything

[00:13:27] Really crazy

[00:13:28] You know?

[00:13:30] And then when you watch it

[00:13:32] And just the first episode

[00:13:34] Is just kind of like the Wilkins

[00:13:35] The Tale of the Wilkins sisters

[00:13:37] And then I'm like okay

[00:13:39] And then the second episode

[00:13:40] You kind of get more into like

[00:13:42] Everybody else

[00:13:43] And the rescuing attempts

[00:13:44] And everybody leaving

[00:13:45] And then you hear about

[00:13:46] It's connection to Shekinah Church

[00:13:49] And the 30 years plus of people being there

[00:13:52] And like you guys all said

[00:13:54] Just it's to unfurl

[00:13:56] And then the third part of the episode

[00:13:58] Just kind of being like

[00:13:59] People's healing journeys

[00:14:01] I thought it was great

[00:14:02] Like you know

[00:14:03] Could it have

[00:14:04] Could they have made it like

[00:14:06] One or two parts instead of three?

[00:14:08] Yes

[00:14:09] They could've

[00:14:10] They could've

[00:14:11] But I'm not as like pissed off

[00:14:14] That they made this three

[00:14:16] If that makes sense

[00:14:17] I am not affronted that they

[00:14:19] Quote unquote stretched this out

[00:14:21] I'm not affronted that they

[00:14:22] They did three episodes

[00:14:24] I think that

[00:14:25] What they did give us in the three episodes

[00:14:27] I don't think much of it was filler

[00:14:29] I liked it all

[00:14:31] Spoiler for that

[00:14:32] But I was really impressed

[00:14:34] I think

[00:14:35] Maybe because I was going in there

[00:14:36] Going with low expectations

[00:14:38] Just because again

[00:14:39] I didn't

[00:14:40] I had no clue what any of this was

[00:14:42] So

[00:14:44] Maybe my expectations were low

[00:14:46] It just made me pleasantly surprised

[00:14:48] There's such a

[00:14:49] Such a shift of tone and texture

[00:14:52] In that third episode

[00:14:53] I think that's what makes me okay

[00:14:55] About it being three

[00:14:56] Because I was thinking

[00:14:57] No this could be two

[00:14:58] And it could

[00:14:59] In terms of the content

[00:15:01] It could've been two episodes

[00:15:03] But in terms of the tonal shift

[00:15:05] And the textural shift

[00:15:06] It needed to be three

[00:15:08] You know

[00:15:09] I mean you'll take us through

[00:15:10] But it starts with the dancers

[00:15:11] Then we go back into

[00:15:12] The history and the church

[00:15:14] And then the third one

[00:15:15] Has that

[00:15:18] Very messy

[00:15:19] It's quite uncomfortable to watch

[00:15:21] But kind of wonderful

[00:15:24] It's like a where are they now special

[00:15:26] Where are they now

[00:15:27] And it's not all happy

[00:15:28] Which is

[00:15:29] Very, very interesting

[00:15:31] And of course the outrage

[00:15:32] That I felt

[00:15:33] That the police said

[00:15:34] Oh no one woman

[00:15:35] Complaining about sexual assault

[00:15:36] Isn't enough

[00:15:39] Disappointing but not surprising

[00:15:41] Two women isn't enough

[00:15:42] Oh no three women

[00:15:43] Get more women

[00:15:44] It's like

[00:15:46] Anyway we'll talk about that

[00:15:49] Nicole

[00:15:50] Episode one

[00:15:51] This is when we're introduced

[00:15:53] To the Wilking sisters

[00:15:55] Miranda and Melanie

[00:15:57] We

[00:15:58] I mean basically this whole episode

[00:16:00] Is driven through

[00:16:01] Melanie, Kelly and Dean Wilking

[00:16:04] Who are Melanie and Miranda's

[00:16:06] Mother and father

[00:16:07] What did you think about the pacing

[00:16:09] Of this first episode

[00:16:11] And the introduction

[00:16:13] Of the premise of

[00:16:16] They're in a TikTok cult

[00:16:17] And now they have to die to themselves

[00:16:19] That's the name of the episode

[00:16:20] Is die to yourself

[00:16:22] And basically they start to cut

[00:16:24] Their family off

[00:16:25] What did you think about

[00:16:26] This first episode here

[00:16:28] Like you both said

[00:16:29] I like that we started

[00:16:30] With like the TikTok aspect of it all

[00:16:32] There's so much money

[00:16:33] In social media

[00:16:35] So by the end

[00:16:36] You really understand why

[00:16:38] Robert Shin

[00:16:39] Notorious grifter

[00:16:41] Would be attracted

[00:16:42] To a group of people

[00:16:44] That can make such

[00:16:45] Ridiculous amounts of money

[00:16:46] Like at one point

[00:16:47] In this episode

[00:16:48] You hear that

[00:16:50] It might have been Aubrey

[00:16:51] One of the dancers

[00:16:52] He made

[00:16:54] $7,000 on a TikTok

[00:16:57] Like that's crazy

[00:16:58] Like and to think like

[00:16:59] Oh there's all this money

[00:17:00] That can be made

[00:17:02] We're gonna fly to LA

[00:17:04] And if we find

[00:17:06] A management agent

[00:17:07] That can propel us

[00:17:08] To that success

[00:17:09] The potential of

[00:17:10] Making all this money

[00:17:11] I would be drawn to that too

[00:17:13] If that were my dream

[00:17:14] These people

[00:17:15] Are incredibly vulnerable

[00:17:17] They're going out there

[00:17:18] They don't know anyone

[00:17:19] They start to build

[00:17:20] Their community

[00:17:21] And something that seems innocent

[00:17:22] Just like people coming together

[00:17:25] Definitely has like

[00:17:26] A darker underbelly

[00:17:28] And we start with like

[00:17:29] It's definitely not light

[00:17:31] What 7M

[00:17:34] Kind of generated into

[00:17:36] Over time

[00:17:37] The final product of it

[00:17:38] Being a management agent

[00:17:40] But it definitely sets

[00:17:41] The correct context of

[00:17:43] This person

[00:17:45] Who's running this whole thing

[00:17:46] Is dangerous

[00:17:48] He was isolating these people

[00:17:49] From their families

[00:17:51] And you know

[00:17:52] You don't just block everybody

[00:17:54] In your family and cut them off

[00:17:55] If something's not

[00:17:57] Something's not shaken up

[00:17:59] So the fact that he was using

[00:18:00] All of these coercive tactics

[00:18:02] To isolate these dancers

[00:18:04] From their friends

[00:18:05] So he can

[00:18:06] Perpetuate his narcissistic

[00:18:08] And abuse of control

[00:18:12] So this was like a perfect avenue

[00:18:13] For him to do it

[00:18:14] And it was just tragic

[00:18:16] Seeing the families

[00:18:17] Of these dancers

[00:18:19] Lose people

[00:18:21] It's their children

[00:18:22] It's their family

[00:18:24] If my mom blocked me

[00:18:25] She would be in her car

[00:18:27] Knocking down my door

[00:18:29] Unfortunately some of these people

[00:18:30] Are in LA much farther away

[00:18:32] But their families

[00:18:33] Were doing everything they could

[00:18:34] Everything

[00:18:35] Get their kids back

[00:18:36] That's a feature and not a bug

[00:18:38] The fact that they're so far

[00:18:39] From their families

[00:18:40] Is part of it

[00:18:41] It's not a coincidence

[00:18:43] You're right Nicole

[00:18:44] About the community

[00:18:45] That these young people are forming

[00:18:47] I mean Kylie

[00:18:48] Who we see throughout

[00:18:49] One of the dancers

[00:18:50] And her where are they now

[00:18:51] Is perhaps the most uplifting

[00:18:54] She's still dancing

[00:18:55] She still dances

[00:18:56] And she helps other young people dance

[00:18:58] And it's all very joyful

[00:19:00] But she talks about

[00:19:02] People she loves

[00:19:04] Still being in 7M

[00:19:06] And that those were her people

[00:19:08] That was her community

[00:19:10] And so it's not just about

[00:19:11] Escaping the cult

[00:19:12] It's about leaving behind

[00:19:13] These people that you're very close to

[00:19:15] Plus knowing what they're going through

[00:19:17] Yeah I mean

[00:19:18] It's hard to start over

[00:19:19] The whole cult

[00:19:20] Almost felt like

[00:19:21] As I was watching

[00:19:22] Our first episode

[00:19:23] It almost feels like

[00:19:24] A honey trap type situation

[00:19:25] Because the way

[00:19:27] We're kind of introduced to it

[00:19:28] Is James B-Dash

[00:19:31] He is a

[00:19:32] Famous TikTok dancer

[00:19:34] The Wilking sisters

[00:19:35] Have their own brand

[00:19:36] They're doing their dancing

[00:19:38] They meet him

[00:19:40] They start collaborating with him

[00:19:42] And then B-Dash

[00:19:43] And Miranda

[00:19:44] Start dating

[00:19:46] It's through Isaiah Shin

[00:19:48] That B-Dash

[00:19:50] Introduces Miranda

[00:19:52] And this is how Miranda

[00:19:54] Is slowly

[00:19:55] Introduced to this cult

[00:19:57] It also feels like Robert Shin

[00:19:59] Because Isaiah is

[00:20:00] Robert Shin's son

[00:20:02] He also has a daughter

[00:20:03] Named Chloe Shin

[00:20:04] It feels like he uses

[00:20:06] His kids

[00:20:07] To find these people

[00:20:09] Because Isaiah

[00:20:10] Tells B-Dash and Miranda

[00:20:12] Oh let's

[00:20:13] You know

[00:20:14] My dad's a pastor

[00:20:15] For this church

[00:20:16] You know come to dinner

[00:20:17] Let's you know

[00:20:18] Talk to him

[00:20:19] And stuff like that

[00:20:20] And Miranda's all in

[00:20:22] Melanie is still like

[00:20:23] I don't know

[00:20:24] And so Melanie

[00:20:25] Talks about this dinner

[00:20:26] And this dinner

[00:20:27] In this first episode

[00:20:28] That we're talking about

[00:20:29] Where

[00:20:31] Miranda brings Melanie

[00:20:33] Aubrey brings Kylie

[00:20:35] I believe

[00:20:37] Kevin

[00:20:38] Concrete Davis

[00:20:39] More of these dancers

[00:20:40] Brings Kaliya

[00:20:41] It's like

[00:20:42] This is

[00:20:43] This is how they do it

[00:20:44] You know what I'm saying

[00:20:45] You have somebody

[00:20:46] Vouch for you

[00:20:48] Have them bring in more people

[00:20:50] It's that peer pressure

[00:20:51] Of okay

[00:20:52] I know these people

[00:20:54] Melanie says she gets

[00:20:55] To the dinner

[00:20:56] She's comfortable

[00:20:57] Because she knows some people there

[00:20:58] But then they start talking about

[00:21:00] They start

[00:21:01] Robert starts preaching

[00:21:02] And then

[00:21:03] Robert tries to lay hands on her

[00:21:04] And then speaks

[00:21:05] Starts speaking in tongues

[00:21:07] And Melanie wasn't with it

[00:21:09] Initially

[00:21:10] But she still

[00:21:11] Gave it a shot

[00:21:12] Even after that

[00:21:13] And she talks about

[00:21:14] When she finally just

[00:21:16] She just was never

[00:21:17] All the way in

[00:21:18] But it's not like she

[00:21:19] You know

[00:21:20] Denounced it because

[00:21:21] It's that pressure

[00:21:22] Because all these other people

[00:21:23] Think it's okay

[00:21:24] I'm looking around this table

[00:21:26] And all these other people

[00:21:27] Think it's okay

[00:21:28] And it's fine

[00:21:29] Sarah

[00:21:30] What was your thoughts

[00:21:31] On the TikTok cult

[00:21:34] This part

[00:21:35] In episode one

[00:21:36] Where we're just focusing

[00:21:37] On the TikTok dancers

[00:21:39] Yeah

[00:21:40] It's a really good question

[00:21:41] Because I think

[00:21:42] The subtitle

[00:21:44] The TikTok cult

[00:21:46] Is a bit misleading

[00:21:48] He had a cult

[00:21:50] And he used

[00:21:52] These young people

[00:21:55] Who were

[00:21:56] Making TikTok dances

[00:21:57] To make huge amounts

[00:21:58] Of money

[00:22:00] So the TikTok of it all

[00:22:03] Is merely

[00:22:06] The avenue by which

[00:22:07] He makes the money

[00:22:08] The avenue by which

[00:22:09] He uses and controls

[00:22:10] These kids

[00:22:13] So I think that's

[00:22:14] Why I went in thinking

[00:22:15] We're a TikTok cult

[00:22:16] And then I thought

[00:22:17] Ah, okay

[00:22:18] But then there is part

[00:22:19] Of that unravelling

[00:22:20] And unwinding

[00:22:22] That they do

[00:22:23] I mean

[00:22:24] If I was at dinner

[00:22:25] And somebody said

[00:22:26] Somebody said to me

[00:22:27] What if I were to tell you

[00:22:28] You had sinned a thousand times today

[00:22:31] But you know

[00:22:32] Probably

[00:22:33] Maybe

[00:22:34] That sounds about right

[00:22:35] Maybe it's a night that has started

[00:22:37] You know, is that a saying

[00:22:38] Yeah, exactly

[00:22:39] We had to

[00:22:40] I had to do a little sneaky edit

[00:22:41] There, Nicole

[00:22:43] But

[00:22:46] I felt like

[00:22:47] Partly

[00:22:49] We've heard this story before

[00:22:50] Now you and I, Mario

[00:22:51] We've covered a lot of cults

[00:22:53] We do find them very interesting

[00:22:55] Yes

[00:22:56] But the boring part of them

[00:22:57] Is that they're all the same

[00:22:58] As well

[00:22:59] They are all

[00:23:00] Find a vulnerable population

[00:23:02] They're all

[00:23:03] You bring in your friend

[00:23:05] You bring in your friend

[00:23:07] But the interesting thing here

[00:23:09] I think is the overt

[00:23:12] Use of these kids

[00:23:14] And the sheer

[00:23:16] Amount of money

[00:23:17] That was being

[00:23:18] Made

[00:23:19] I completely agree

[00:23:21] And the fact that we're looking at them

[00:23:22] And watching them

[00:23:23] And then we see them doing their coach

[00:23:25] Ad

[00:23:26] We see them doing their collabs

[00:23:27] We see them doing the influencer stuff

[00:23:29] The car ad

[00:23:30] The car

[00:23:31] I mean all this stuff

[00:23:32] They're on So You Think You Can Dance

[00:23:33] They're on World of Dance

[00:23:34] They're on Ellen

[00:23:35] They're on Ellen, yes

[00:23:36] Right flag, number one

[00:23:38] If he was a genuine

[00:23:40] If he was a genuine management company

[00:23:42] You'd be going, wow

[00:23:44] What a great manager

[00:23:45] But that's also what they were thinking

[00:23:47] And I think there's that idea too

[00:23:49] Of you're all sitting around this dinner table

[00:23:51] And you think

[00:23:52] Well, they all think it's okay

[00:23:53] So it must be okay

[00:23:54] But what if every single one of them

[00:23:55] Is thinking that

[00:23:56] And nobody speaks up

[00:23:57] So the takeaway from that people is

[00:23:59] Speak up

[00:24:00] Speak up, don't be afraid

[00:24:02] I liked the

[00:24:04] Weigh in

[00:24:05] As you say, Nicole

[00:24:06] Was this video

[00:24:07] That you had seen

[00:24:08] I wasn't aware of it

[00:24:09] But obviously on the TikTok streets

[00:24:11] It was something important

[00:24:12] They already had a following

[00:24:13] The Wilking Sisters

[00:24:15] And what became very interesting

[00:24:18] As the

[00:24:20] TikTok comments flew by on our screen

[00:24:22] Was like, where's the other one?

[00:24:24] What's happened to your sister?

[00:24:26] And that's going to be explicated

[00:24:28] Later with a shift

[00:24:30] In tactic by Robert Shin

[00:24:33] I like what you said there, Sarah

[00:24:36] Because it was so funny

[00:24:37] Because that's what I was telling James

[00:24:39] As we were watching

[00:24:40] I was like, normally when I watch cult stuff

[00:24:43] I'm kind of like rolling my eyes sometimes

[00:24:45] Because I'm like

[00:24:47] Like you said, it's the same story

[00:24:49] You get pulled in

[00:24:50] You look up and you're in a cult

[00:24:52] But for this one

[00:24:54] I was like

[00:24:56] They are doing a good job

[00:24:57] Of making me very sympathetic to these people

[00:24:59] Because I don't want to say

[00:25:00] There's some ones where I'm not sympathetic

[00:25:02] You're always sympathetic to victims

[00:25:04] You're on record, Mari

[00:25:06] You can't backpedal

[00:25:07] You are on record

[00:25:09] But you know what I'm saying

[00:25:11] Yes

[00:25:12] Yeah, yeah

[00:25:13] It's like

[00:25:15] This isn't Keep Sweet

[00:25:17] Where people are born into this

[00:25:18] So they know no other way

[00:25:20] You know what I'm saying

[00:25:21] But it's also not like Twin Flames

[00:25:23] Where it's like, dog

[00:25:24] They're telling you to marry a woman

[00:25:26] And that's not your sexual identity

[00:25:28] Like what's not clicking

[00:25:29] You know what I'm saying

[00:25:30] And again, it's not judging

[00:25:32] It's just like

[00:25:33] You're sitting here like

[00:25:35] Come on, man

[00:25:36] You're rooting for them

[00:25:38] Think a little bit

[00:25:39] Out of the side of the box

[00:25:41] Apply your common sense

[00:25:43] For them, like you said

[00:25:45] He did a masterful job

[00:25:46] Of applying his cult strategies

[00:25:48] To a successful management company

[00:25:51] Because like you said

[00:25:53] If he wasn't doing these horrible splits

[00:25:55] With these dancers

[00:25:57] And isolating them from their family

[00:25:59] And sexually assaulting them

[00:26:01] Like, what do we always say

[00:26:03] When it comes to cults

[00:26:05] They just go too far

[00:26:07] Yes

[00:26:08] Other than that

[00:26:09] Why did you enjoy the play, Mrs. Lincoln?

[00:26:11] Yes, exactly

[00:26:13] Like if you hadn't done it

[00:26:14] All of this stuff

[00:26:15] Then it could have been mutually beneficial

[00:26:17] But no, you're charging them

[00:26:19] The split was ridiculous

[00:26:21] For all the money that they bring in

[00:26:23] It's a 20% management fee

[00:26:25] Okay, that's normal

[00:26:27] But then you have

[00:26:29] A 10% tithe fee

[00:26:31] Which is, it's biblical

[00:26:33] Yes, everybody

[00:26:34] They said everybody should

[00:26:36] Tithe 10% to your church

[00:26:38] If you are a true believer

[00:26:40] That is a normal thing that people do

[00:26:42] But then a 10% man of God fee

[00:26:44] Which is literally, basically

[00:26:46] Just 10% going straight to Robert's shin

[00:26:48] Which, I mean

[00:26:50] And you've already had 30% going to him

[00:26:52] But this specific 10% directly to him

[00:26:55] And then the third 10%

[00:26:57] An offering fee

[00:26:59] What was that?

[00:27:01] They never even explained what the offering fee was

[00:27:03] But a tithe is an offering

[00:27:05] That's what I said

[00:27:07] It's different

[00:27:09] Because one goes in his checkings

[00:27:11] And one goes in his savings

[00:27:12] This is where we need Nicole's expertise

[00:27:14] Yeah, it's here

[00:27:16] This is one-on-one

[00:27:18] Call it one-on-one

[00:27:20] So by the time you're looking at the splits

[00:27:22] They're giving him at least 50% of their money

[00:27:25] Off top

[00:27:27] And then later on, we find out

[00:27:29] 50% goes to the church

[00:27:32] And then they get hit with the taxes

[00:27:34] I totally forgot about the taxes

[00:27:36] Because you're thinking like

[00:27:38] Oh, 50%, that's stupid

[00:27:40] But it's still not all of your money

[00:27:42] And you're like, nope

[00:27:44] Because after all of that

[00:27:46] They still got to pay taxes

[00:27:48] Which is over here

[00:27:50] Really can't get as close to 30% as possible

[00:27:52] So they are basically making absolutely nothing

[00:27:54] Doing all of this work

[00:27:56] Making what looked like great content

[00:27:58] From what we see here on the show

[00:28:00] And getting paid absolutely nothing for it

[00:28:03] Just horrendous

[00:28:05] I mean, these are luxury brands

[00:28:07] That we're starting to see

[00:28:09] But the clever

[00:28:12] The diabolical

[00:28:14] The way

[00:28:16] The thing that interests me

[00:28:18] And the mechanic of this

[00:28:20] Is they were getting the money

[00:28:22] Into their own accounts

[00:28:24] In their own names

[00:28:26] So it's not like Robert Shim 7M

[00:28:28] Was withholding the money

[00:28:30] That is true

[00:28:32] He was paying the total amount into the bank account

[00:28:34] But hey, guess what kids

[00:28:36] His daughter has access to your bank account

[00:28:38] And she will be making payments

[00:28:40] And we find out later

[00:28:42] That this church cult member

[00:28:44] Same thing happened to her

[00:28:46] And they just got her to sign all the checks

[00:28:48] In her checkbook

[00:28:50] And then took her checkbook away

[00:28:52] And then they just wrote whatever checks they wanted

[00:28:54] So these, again

[00:28:56] When we say use your common sense

[00:28:58] I mean, these dancers are thinking

[00:29:00] Well, there's the 82,000 going into

[00:29:02] I can see it going into my bank account

[00:29:04] And then you see it all just slowly come away

[00:29:07] And then you see it all just go away

[00:29:09] And if these people are the only people

[00:29:10] In the industry

[00:29:12] These are the people you're getting

[00:29:14] Professional advice from

[00:29:16] And if they all think it's normal

[00:29:18] And the craziest part about this

[00:29:20] Is I know I talked about

[00:29:22] How much money is in this before

[00:29:24] But these videos, nobody's cursing

[00:29:26] They're wearing appropriate clothing

[00:29:28] They're dancing to sanitized music

[00:29:30] Like they have such a high potential for profit

[00:29:32] Like they have no idea

[00:29:34] How much of this

[00:29:36] They actually should be reaping

[00:29:37] And also, they don't have access

[00:29:39] To their own bank accounts

[00:29:41] Like how would they know?

[00:29:43] Yeah, or they're just willingly

[00:29:45] Brainwashed enough

[00:29:47] That they're like it's okay

[00:29:49] That yes, I'm bringing all this money

[00:29:51] I'm not seeing it

[00:29:53] But I'm being provided for

[00:29:55] They let me stay in this house

[00:29:57] Oh, they get charged rent though

[00:29:59] They get charged rent in these houses

[00:30:01] For a room in the house

[00:30:03] But that's what God would want

[00:30:05] For them to pay rent

[00:30:07] And they're getting that space

[00:30:09] They're getting to do what they want to do

[00:30:11] Which is create and dance

[00:30:13] Yeah, they don't gotta go clock in

[00:30:15] They're not going to the Olive Garden

[00:30:17] For their sharing

[00:30:19] They're just dancing

[00:30:21] They're clocked out

[00:30:23] What if we did it

[00:30:25] Like what if we came

[00:30:27] And we podcast again

[00:30:29] If Rob was a cult leader

[00:30:31] Rob is a cult leader

[00:30:33] I mean, a lot of things can be cults

[00:30:35] Like you don't realize it

[00:30:37] But the fact that he's a cult leader

[00:30:39] Is that we covered

[00:30:41] We covered how to be a cult leader

[00:30:43] And yeah, he's got the playbook

[00:30:45] Don't worry

[00:30:47] It's just astounding

[00:30:49] But you know it happens

[00:30:51] I mean people get taken advantage of

[00:30:53] In business all the time

[00:30:55] I think it's just the added level

[00:30:57] Of that this is like total

[00:30:59] Control with this element

[00:31:01] Of isolation

[00:31:03] And all of that

[00:31:05] It's just very fascinating

[00:31:07] And I mean

[00:31:09] We do want to move on

[00:31:11] But I think the parents

[00:31:13] Also make this documentary very

[00:31:15] I know for me as a parent

[00:31:17] I was sitting there

[00:31:19] Looking my newborn in the face

[00:31:21] I'm like don't ever join a cult

[00:31:23] I think the parents made

[00:31:25] All of this very humanizing

[00:31:27] Between the Wilking parents

[00:31:29] And then we meet the Rayno parents

[00:31:31] Nick Rayno

[00:31:33] He is a current member

[00:31:35] It seems like him, B'Dash

[00:31:37] And Miranda are still in

[00:31:39] Are still working for 7M

[00:31:41] Very much so

[00:31:43] Yeah and they still have

[00:31:45] Limited access to their kids

[00:31:47] And it was really

[00:31:49] It was really sad to see these parents

[00:31:51] Calling and asking what they can do

[00:31:53] Can the police help them

[00:31:55] And the police being like no

[00:31:57] They're adults

[00:31:59] So we can't really do much

[00:32:01] And you know it was

[00:32:03] It was unfortunate

[00:32:05] But I really liked the addition

[00:32:07] To the documentary a lot sadder

[00:32:09] Like seeing a grown man cry

[00:32:11] And call for his daughter

[00:32:13] Saying daddy loves him

[00:32:15] There's a scene in this first episode

[00:32:17] Where Miranda flies with B'Dash

[00:32:19] Back to Michigan

[00:32:21] Kind of to show face

[00:32:23] To kind of give the illusion

[00:32:25] To the viewing audience

[00:32:27] That everything's fine

[00:32:29] And you can see her face

[00:32:31] When her dad says that he loves her

[00:32:33] You can see her crack for a second

[00:32:35] She has to walk away

[00:32:37] And so many people

[00:32:39] Just want to hear that their dad loves them

[00:32:41] And like I know why am I getting sad

[00:32:43] Because it's sad

[00:32:45] It's such a fundamental relationship

[00:32:47] I mean some parents and children

[00:32:49] Are estranged from each other

[00:32:51] For good reasons or not good reasons

[00:32:53] But it's a thing within that relationship

[00:32:55] For someone to come between

[00:32:57] That relationship

[00:32:59] And compel it to be broken

[00:33:01] That's what's sad

[00:33:03] For what's seemingly

[00:33:05] Like no reason to

[00:33:07] Yeah

[00:33:09] I mean listen

[00:33:11] On 20% and a tithing of 10%

[00:33:13] He could have been making

[00:33:15] All the money in the world

[00:33:17] And as we see is how he

[00:33:19] When the fire, when the heat

[00:33:21] Starts to rise up

[00:33:23] He loosens the yoke

[00:33:25] And lets them visit more

[00:33:27] It's like again

[00:33:29] If you were just a simple management company

[00:33:31] Let these people see their families

[00:33:33] Not do all of this

[00:33:35] Then you'd still be making

[00:33:37] A lot of money

[00:33:39] There's a lot of money to be made right

[00:33:41] We have a lot of recordings of him

[00:33:43] So somebody's obviously

[00:33:45] They had somebody on the inside

[00:33:47] Or there's some we never found out

[00:33:49] Where these recordings came from

[00:33:51] Yeah he probably records himself

[00:33:53] And make people listen to them

[00:33:55] That's very common

[00:33:57] It's something he would do

[00:33:59] But he talks explicitly about

[00:34:01] Oh I've made a mistake

[00:34:03] Pretty big of you right

[00:34:05] Man of God

[00:34:07] And if that completely

[00:34:09] Is not the way to go

[00:34:11] What you need to do

[00:34:13] Is like drip feeding

[00:34:15] Just drip feed them contact

[00:34:17] But close your heart to them

[00:34:19] And this becomes a theme of part 3

[00:34:21] Reap what you sow

[00:34:23] Where Melanie has

[00:34:25] Not an argument

[00:34:27] But let's say a disagreement

[00:34:29] With her parents where she says

[00:34:31] You've agreed to never mention

[00:34:33] The church or Robert Shinn

[00:34:35] In order to have access

[00:34:37] To the church

[00:34:39] And the mother saying

[00:34:41] I just want to see her

[00:34:43] And I can see both those sides

[00:34:47] Exactly

[00:34:49] So part 2

[00:34:51] Is when we get more into

[00:34:53] They introduce us to the Shekinah

[00:34:55] Part of it because

[00:34:57] What we find out is they

[00:34:59] Basically he kept the 7M dancers

[00:35:01] Separate from the Shekinah church

[00:35:03] The following

[00:35:05] So they didn't

[00:35:07] From what we're told

[00:35:09] They didn't know about

[00:35:11] How the Shekinah church

[00:35:13] People in the Shekinah church

[00:35:15] Were being treated

[00:35:17] And it was because it started

[00:35:19] Coming out like he was

[00:35:21] That there was pastors meeting

[00:35:23] Private meetings with the pastors

[00:35:25] Where churchgoers were being

[00:35:27] Sexually assaulted

[00:35:29] You know talking about

[00:35:31] Different abuse within the church

[00:35:33] And that's what made some of the

[00:35:35] Dancers most of the dancers

[00:35:37] Who are talking with us here

[00:35:39] Talk about Priscilla Lee

[00:35:41] And these two sisters

[00:35:43] Them telling their story

[00:35:45] Was just

[00:35:47] Oh my it was so heart breaking

[00:35:49] And it tells you

[00:35:51] That other side

[00:35:53] Sarah what did you think of

[00:35:55] Their story

[00:35:57] It's a beautiful moment

[00:35:59] At the end of episode 1

[00:36:01] Where we meet Melanie Lee

[00:36:03] The sister on the outside

[00:36:05] And we realise the depth

[00:36:07] Of this disgusting man's

[00:36:09] Breach and abuse

[00:36:11] That he's done

[00:36:13] I was really interested

[00:36:15] In these two sisters

[00:36:17] Priscilla is so

[00:36:19] So

[00:36:21] She opens the door for us

[00:36:23] Because she is very damaged

[00:36:25] As she says I'm quoting her

[00:36:27] And there's a conversation

[00:36:29] With her sister where

[00:36:31] She says you were late

[00:36:33] For my daughter's birthday

[00:36:35] Where Priscilla explains

[00:36:37] How that does not

[00:36:39] Make sense

[00:36:41] And it's startling

[00:36:43] And revelatory

[00:36:45] And we also see her meeting

[00:36:47] Her father and that moment

[00:36:49] Where she says don't

[00:36:51] Don't touch me

[00:36:53] I think they are really

[00:36:55] I mean I love talking to the kids

[00:36:57] Yeah

[00:36:58] But Priscilla is really our guide

[00:37:00] She was in for 23 years

[00:37:02] She was a sex slave

[00:37:04] To him basically

[00:37:06] She was a prisoner

[00:37:07] And she goes about her ironing

[00:37:09] And various things

[00:37:11] Her description of her fear of hell

[00:37:13] And how that was instilled

[00:37:15] And their story

[00:37:17] They were Korean migrants

[00:37:19] Who had an absent father

[00:37:21] And a mother with addiction issues

[00:37:23] I mean perfect fodder

[00:37:25] And we go from that

[00:37:27] Sort of 30 years ago

[00:37:29] These two young Korean migrant girls

[00:37:31] And we flash forward in our minds

[00:37:33] To the people that we met

[00:37:35] In episode one

[00:37:37] And we see them

[00:37:39] Disadvantaged potentially

[00:37:41] I can't speak for them

[00:37:43] But one assumes

[00:37:45] Because they talk about how dance

[00:37:47] Is their only outlet

[00:37:49] And he made them change

[00:37:51] Their style of dance as well

[00:37:53] Which is like another whole

[00:37:55] Control issue

[00:37:57] So I think that there's

[00:37:59] Such a connection there

[00:38:01] And we actually then do see them

[00:38:03] Connect which is quite startling

[00:38:05] Yeah

[00:38:06] Because if you put all those people

[00:38:08] In the same room

[00:38:10] And they start corroborating their stories

[00:38:12] There's a reason why cults get off

[00:38:14] On isolation

[00:38:16] I really appreciated getting to know

[00:38:18] Melanie and her sister Priscilla

[00:38:20] Their story is so tragic

[00:38:22] Like Sarah said

[00:38:24] Perfect fodder

[00:38:26] To fall into this kind of situation

[00:38:28] Melanie, the younger sister

[00:38:30] Was just looking for community

[00:38:32] And she went to church

[00:38:34] Brought her sister

[00:38:36] And it seems like

[00:38:38] They were being taken care of

[00:38:40] Very greatly by that family

[00:38:42] But then it slowly starts to devolve

[00:38:44] Where the sisters start losing

[00:38:46] Contact with each other

[00:38:48] They're forced to stay

[00:38:50] In different living situations

[00:38:52] They're forced to work

[00:38:54] Underneath Robert

[00:38:56] And their wages

[00:38:58] I don't know if garnish is the right word

[00:39:00] But they're not reaping any benefits

[00:39:02] Stolen

[00:39:04] Because he has his own cafes

[00:39:06] And she had $100 a fortnight

[00:39:08] Yep, $100 a week

[00:39:10] I think she said

[00:39:12] And she got $100 a week

[00:39:14] I hope it was $100 a week

[00:39:16] That's what I remembered

[00:39:18] Priscilla had $80 a fortnight

[00:39:21] Melanie got $100 a week

[00:39:23] From the cafe work

[00:39:25] But even so, either way

[00:39:27] It's not, yeah

[00:39:29] That's not minimum wage

[00:39:31] They had nothing to lose

[00:39:33] And they were still getting stolen from

[00:39:34] Yeah, great way to put it

[00:39:36] And I think the reason why Priscilla's story is so raw

[00:39:39] Is because, correct me if I'm wrong you guys

[00:39:41] But she

[00:39:43] She escapes

[00:39:45] While they're filming this

[00:39:47] Like I'm assuming it feels like

[00:39:49] I don't know when

[00:39:51] This was put together and filmed

[00:39:53] But it felt like you could definitely tell

[00:39:55] The difference between when

[00:39:57] They were talking to people

[00:39:59] Talking about what happened in

[00:40:01] 2022, 2021, 2019

[00:40:02] To 2023

[00:40:04] You know what I'm saying?

[00:40:06] When we go to episode 3

[00:40:08] So like, it feels like Priscilla

[00:40:10] Either escapes

[00:40:12] Escapes around the same time

[00:40:14] That they start filming this

[00:40:16] Or just shortly before

[00:40:18] Priscilla confirms that she leaves the cult in 2022

[00:40:20] Because if you remember

[00:40:22] When we're first talking to Melanie

[00:40:24] She says

[00:40:26] I got out 10 years ago

[00:40:28] And I haven't talked to my sister since

[00:40:30] And that's what

[00:40:32] She's like, oh my gosh

[00:40:34] I'm so confused

[00:40:36] And she jumps in there

[00:40:38] Being kind of confused

[00:40:40] We're like, wait, I thought she said

[00:40:42] Her sister was still in the cult

[00:40:44] And that she hasn't talked to her

[00:40:46] But she's right here now

[00:40:48] So Priscilla left

[00:40:50] Escapes in 2022

[00:40:52] And she

[00:40:54] Like, after just escaping

[00:40:56] I'm pretty sure still

[00:40:58] Not pretty sure we kind of see it

[00:41:00] Her still trying to put together

[00:41:02] A documentary

[00:41:04] Like, she's the one who's come out

[00:41:06] Who's just come out

[00:41:08] Everybody else has been out for way longer

[00:41:10] And have been able to like

[00:41:12] Deal with what has happened to them

[00:41:14] Or start to process what has happened to them

[00:41:16] Meanwhile, we're seeing Priscilla

[00:41:18] Process hers on film

[00:41:20] And I just want to like, commend her

[00:41:22] Because that's very, very brave

[00:41:24] And she didn't have to do that

[00:41:26] She didn't have to do any of this

[00:41:28] And the fact that she didn't

[00:41:30] And even the fact that we see her go from

[00:41:32] Like, I'm going to police report

[00:41:34] Of course, because she's right

[00:41:36] Nothing has happened

[00:41:38] But to see that growth in her

[00:41:40] It was truly one of those

[00:41:42] Shocking things

[00:41:44] And I think it's one of the things

[00:41:46] That makes this docu-

[00:41:48] This docuseries to me

[00:41:50] Feel so human

[00:41:52] Like, this is probably one of the better

[00:41:54] Cult series that we've covered

[00:41:56] That really does make you

[00:41:59] That puts you in the shoes

[00:42:02] Of the victims

[00:42:04] Yeah

[00:42:06] Okay

[00:42:08] Any

[00:42:10] Any final thoughts

[00:42:12] We kind of like, again

[00:42:14] There's so much that

[00:42:16] I mean, I would just

[00:42:18] Again, spoiler alert

[00:42:20] I would encourage our listeners to go and watch this

[00:42:22] If they haven't already

[00:42:24] Because there's so much that we can't cover

[00:42:26] In this, we're trying to keep it tight

[00:42:28] But

[00:42:30] There's so much that we still

[00:42:32] Can't cover

[00:42:34] And so I hope that

[00:42:36] You guys will continue to watch

[00:42:38] And I guess you will still

[00:42:40] Appreciate in the series itself

[00:42:42] Nicole

[00:42:44] What are some final thoughts on

[00:42:46] The document-

[00:42:48] The docu-series

[00:42:50] And I'll come back to you for any

[00:42:52] Extracurricular stuff

[00:42:54] I know you know

[00:42:56] Your insider info

[00:42:58] But your final thoughts about

[00:43:00] The series within itself

[00:43:02] Was

[00:43:04] Really informative to hear

[00:43:06] How all these parts

[00:43:08] Interlink with each other

[00:43:10] The financial abuse

[00:43:12] The sexual abuse

[00:43:14] The religious abuse

[00:43:16] Preying on the vulnerable

[00:43:18] Especially in an industry where there's so much money

[00:43:20] To be made

[00:43:22] The concern of the families

[00:43:24] The escape attempts

[00:43:26] The craziness of the escape attempts

[00:43:28] Of these people trying to leave

[00:43:30] It definitely told a big picture

[00:43:32] Of a trial that

[00:43:34] Especially like the fact that this documentary

[00:43:36] Has been put out there

[00:43:38] The fact that more people are aware of it

[00:43:40] Maybe it'll inspire others to step forward

[00:43:42] To help, you know, to build the case further

[00:43:44] Because as we learned in part three

[00:43:47] People have tried to sue Robert Chin

[00:43:49] And they've lost

[00:43:51] I wonder why it's not like he doesn't have

[00:43:53] The wages of a million of his employees

[00:43:55] Directly to him

[00:43:57] He can afford any lawyer in the world

[00:43:59] But it's really amazing

[00:44:00] To see people come together

[00:44:02] You know, even like Priscilla

[00:44:04] And her sister's friends

[00:44:06] Come together to serve Robert

[00:44:08] Which was iconic

[00:44:10] I wanted to make my chairon

[00:44:12] The Korean restaurant that Robert Chin got served at

[00:44:14] But that was more than a picture

[00:44:16] So I just have it as a Robert Chin's op

[00:44:18] Because that's equally true

[00:44:20] But yeah, hopefully we can see some justice

[00:44:23] For these victims

[00:44:25] And this documentary will serve

[00:44:27] As a way to keep people talking about it

[00:44:28] Yeah, I agree

[00:44:30] Sarah, how about you?

[00:44:32] Look, I thought this was

[00:44:34] Spoiler, I thought this was very good

[00:44:36] I'll tell you in my magnifying glasses

[00:44:38] I think that if you listeners

[00:44:40] Haven't watched it yet

[00:44:42] We haven't even

[00:44:44] Literally haven't even scratched the surface

[00:44:46] So it's worth looking

[00:44:48] And if you have watched it

[00:44:50] Let us know what you thought

[00:44:52] It's complex without being complicated

[00:44:55] And I really admire that

[00:44:56] And we always know when we are

[00:44:58] Mari, sometimes we complain about

[00:45:00] Like we're watching a documentary

[00:45:02] We don't know when we are

[00:45:04] We always know when we are

[00:45:06] And the people who spoke

[00:45:08] On this documentary

[00:45:10] Are all unbelievably brave

[00:45:12] And bringing that story to us

[00:45:14] You've got to think about

[00:45:16] What that cost them

[00:45:18] Emotionally, spiritually

[00:45:20] And how it's impacted

[00:45:22] Their lives

[00:45:23] Emotionally, spiritually

[00:45:25] And let's hope not actually

[00:45:27] Because the internet is a wild place

[00:45:30] But there are costs

[00:45:32] For coming forward and speaking truth

[00:45:34] And all those people

[00:45:36] Will be paying them

[00:45:38] Even in the dark of

[00:45:40] You know, 2 o'clock in the morning

[00:45:42] So that is astonishing

[00:45:44] To see that courage

[00:45:46] Yeah, exactly

[00:45:48] Yeah, so

[00:45:50] My final thoughts

[00:45:51] Like the only thing

[00:45:53] I can give Robert

[00:45:55] Shin props for it

[00:45:57] Or whoever told

[00:45:59] Miranda to cut her hair

[00:46:01] And dye it blonde

[00:46:03] The bob?

[00:46:05] That's a Robert

[00:46:07] It was good

[00:46:09] She looked amazing

[00:46:11] Jokes aside

[00:46:13] Yeah, I mean

[00:46:15] There's a lot

[00:46:17] To talk about

[00:46:19] But I truly think

[00:46:21] It's a little bit of mystery

[00:46:23] For the listeners

[00:46:25] But also, like you said

[00:46:27] I think part 3 does a great job

[00:46:29] Of

[00:46:31] Because I don't want to spoil it

[00:46:33] Because I think that's also a good place

[00:46:35] To do this

[00:46:37] When you see where people are at

[00:46:39] So watch it

[00:46:41] Like honestly watch it

[00:46:43] The 3 parts to me

[00:46:45] Went by so quickly

[00:46:47] I watched it again

[00:46:49] I haven't watched a property

[00:46:51] I really enjoyed

[00:46:53] I really enjoyed watching it all

[00:46:55] And the only thing I will spoil

[00:46:57] Is shout out to Concrete

[00:46:59] For dancing with Beyonce

[00:47:01] I was like, okay

[00:47:03] I cut with the heart

[00:47:05] I screamed

[00:47:07] I was like, if that's not a feel good

[00:47:09] Kind of ending

[00:47:11] You know, like

[00:47:13] And then dance with Beyonce

[00:47:15] That's what's on the other side

[00:47:17] Yes, and dang it

[00:47:19] I keep spoiling it

[00:47:21] And then I got to watch

[00:47:23] Melanie Wilking

[00:47:25] She's engaged to Austin Eichler

[00:47:27] They got married

[00:47:29] They got married, okay great

[00:47:31] A football player

[00:47:33] Not just a football player

[00:47:35] If he's around in the first round

[00:47:37] Of the draft and I'm drafting 7

[00:47:39] I'm probably going to take him

[00:47:41] Austin Eichler

[00:47:43] He has got me many a fantasy point

[00:47:45] He is a great wide receiver

[00:47:47] It's just kind of crazy

[00:47:49] How a lot of

[00:47:51] and then that it being tied to a cult,

[00:47:54] I mean, it's very, very interesting.

[00:47:58] So yeah, that's it for my wrap up.

[00:48:00] So Nicole, what are the, what's the hot gas?

[00:48:03] What's the, what we see in this documentary?

[00:48:05] What won't our listeners get from this documentary

[00:48:08] that you know about this case?

[00:48:10] Sure, so around 2022, around February is when they did

[00:48:15] that Instagram live where Melanie Wilking

[00:48:18] and her parents speak out to the world

[00:48:20] using the Wilking sisters joint account,

[00:48:23] just to say that they're concerned about their daughter.

[00:48:25] She hasn't reached out.

[00:48:26] They believe that she's under the influence of a cult.

[00:48:29] And you would not believe how many people in the comments

[00:48:32] were like, stop blasting your family issues.

[00:48:35] It was probably something you did.

[00:48:38] It's actually crazy, like going back through the TikToks

[00:48:41] and seeing the victim blaming.

[00:48:42] And then you see comments that are like one day old

[00:48:45] being like, did you watch the documentary?

[00:48:48] Did you see like all the tea on this?

[00:48:49] A lot of the drama was about one of the main creators

[00:48:52] that was like looking into this.

[00:48:54] I think her name is Without a Crystal Ball.

[00:48:57] She was doing a lot of like the grassroots,

[00:49:00] you know, investigation into this when a lot of people

[00:49:03] weren't looking into it, kind of like when it fell off.

[00:49:08] And a lot of people were calling her out

[00:49:09] for being an unreliable narrator.

[00:49:11] She didn't have like any hard evidence to prove

[00:49:14] that 7M was anything more than a management agency.

[00:49:18] And it's crazy like how people,

[00:49:21] I don't know if it's like she had history

[00:49:23] of being an unreliable narrator

[00:49:25] or if she just went really hard here

[00:49:27] and people didn't believe her.

[00:49:29] But the case like kind of fell off

[00:49:30] because of infighting within the true crime community

[00:49:35] on TikTok, which is wild.

[00:49:38] Like if you go on Reddit and you look up 7M,

[00:49:40] there's more posts like talking about

[00:49:43] like how it was reported on and speculated on

[00:49:46] rather than this documentary or the Rolling Stone article

[00:49:50] that came out or a lawsuit that was eventually filed.

[00:49:53] It's just crazy how it went off the rails

[00:49:57] for a little bit there.

[00:49:58] But when as soon as I saw this trailer,

[00:50:00] I was like, whoa, that chick from TikTok was right.

[00:50:04] We should have all listened to her then.

[00:50:07] And not to get too spoilery,

[00:50:10] but Melanie got married last weekend to Austin Eckler

[00:50:14] and Miranda was in attendance.

[00:50:18] So they're continuing to interface with their family,

[00:50:22] but it kind of seems like it's what they were alluding to

[00:50:26] in the documentary that it's more opportunistic

[00:50:28] to get a photo op with the family

[00:50:31] than to spend quality time together.

[00:50:33] You don't see any pictures of Miranda

[00:50:35] with her sister at the wedding,

[00:50:37] but you see plenty of pictures of her.

[00:50:39] And this is the biggest T of all,

[00:50:41] any 7M social media account, their comments are limited.

[00:50:46] Like one comment from Netflix will pass through,

[00:50:49] but I don't know if you need to be a follower,

[00:50:51] a long time follower,

[00:50:52] but I can't comment on anything to be like,

[00:50:55] get out girl, it's a cult.

[00:50:57] So that's wild.

[00:50:58] And 7M has been taken out of all of the Instagram bios

[00:51:02] of the current members.

[00:51:04] And it's been replaced with emails

[00:51:06] that are like at for Miranda in B-

[00:51:09] it's at the derricks.com.

[00:51:12] But it's still like, they're still being managed by 7M.

[00:51:14] So they've kind of scrubbed that off social media

[00:51:17] at this point, but it's very much still around.

[00:51:21] There's many members.

[00:51:23] And if you watch the documentary and you see the dances,

[00:51:25] like this type of dance is very big on TikTok

[00:51:28] and it will likely continue to be successful.

[00:51:31] I just wish that some of these people could be,

[00:51:33] could recognize they would be just as successful

[00:51:36] if they just got out of this terrible situation.

[00:51:39] So I think that's all the tea that's from today.

[00:51:42] But if anybody has any additional questions,

[00:51:44] I'm chronically online.

[00:51:46] So you can feel free to reach out to me

[00:51:48] and I will do the research for you.

[00:51:49] Like I spent the past 12 hours doing today

[00:51:51] when I didn't want to work.

[00:51:54] Awesome.

[00:51:55] Thank you so much, Nicole.

[00:51:57] I'm here, I'm on Reddit, TikTok,

[00:51:59] they should be calling me multi-social media.

[00:52:04] Chronically online, Nicole, that's a better moniker.

[00:52:07] Well, chronically online, Nicole,

[00:52:09] how many magnifying glasses are you gonna rate

[00:52:11] Dancing for the Devil out of a possible five?

[00:52:18] I'm kind of leaning towards five,

[00:52:19] but maybe I'll give it a four and a half

[00:52:21] because not everything can be perfect.

[00:52:23] I think I said the same thing last time I was on,

[00:52:26] but I really enjoyed this.

[00:52:27] And I gotta get the girls watching this.

[00:52:30] Like, oh my girlies remember this?

[00:52:32] This is where it is now,

[00:52:34] if you remember this TikTok drama.

[00:52:36] Interesting.

[00:52:37] It's not just drama, it's crime.

[00:52:39] It's crime, yeah.

[00:52:40] It's a gold.

[00:52:41] Yes, it's a gold.

[00:52:43] Sarah, how many magnifying glasses

[00:52:44] are you gonna rate this documentary

[00:52:45] out of a possible five?

[00:52:47] I'm gonna give it a four

[00:52:49] and one entire magnifying glass of that is for Priscilla.

[00:52:54] You're amazing.

[00:52:55] I think this is,

[00:52:58] the subject matter is interesting and important and current.

[00:53:03] The way it's made is very thoughtful.

[00:53:07] The construction,

[00:53:09] it's allowed to have three parts as discussed earlier.

[00:53:12] So I think four and I would absolutely recommend it

[00:53:16] even if you don't think you're interested in TikToks,

[00:53:19] even if you don't think you're interested

[00:53:20] in the young folk dancing on the TikTok,

[00:53:23] it's much more than that.

[00:53:25] I can understand that subtitle to draw people in

[00:53:29] so that people will know,

[00:53:30] people like Nicole who knew a little bit about it

[00:53:32] will be drawn in.

[00:53:34] But so don't let the TikTokness of it

[00:53:37] put you off if it was going to.

[00:53:39] This is an excellent production.

[00:53:41] What about you, Mari?

[00:53:42] How many magnifying glasses for you?

[00:53:44] I'm gonna give it a five.

[00:53:45] Like I'm tempted to be the same

[00:53:48] and just be like a 0.5 or whatever.

[00:53:50] But honestly, I can't think of what I would critique it for.

[00:53:55] I mean, there's no bad recreations.

[00:53:58] Actually, you know what?

[00:53:59] Something we didn't talk about,

[00:54:01] the interspersing of like,

[00:54:03] instead of B-roll in a sense,

[00:54:06] like your normal true crime B-roll,

[00:54:09] we get the dancers who are telling the story

[00:54:12] or whatever point they're on in the documentary.

[00:54:15] They're dancing.

[00:54:16] It's very, it's so ethereal.

[00:54:18] They're dancing as they're talking about

[00:54:21] what they went through

[00:54:22] or as these TikTok posts are popping up.

[00:54:26] They're dancing as they're talking about

[00:54:27] what they're gonna do with their life next.

[00:54:32] They do this weird backwards,

[00:54:36] you could tell somebody was dancing

[00:54:37] and then they took the footage and rewound it backwards

[00:54:40] whenever they're like Robert's voice was on

[00:54:42] and we heard the talking in tongues,

[00:54:44] which made it really creepy.

[00:54:46] They did a really, really good job

[00:54:49] with the interstitial stuff,

[00:54:51] like the stuff in the middle between the talking heads

[00:54:54] and between showing us-

[00:54:56] Dance clips.

[00:54:58] Honestly, I do like dance clips.

[00:55:00] It's a lot of dance clips, but I loved it.

[00:55:03] Like I said, I love seeing like these people

[00:55:05] were on So You Think You Can Dance and World of Dance

[00:55:07] and all of their little TikTok posts.

[00:55:09] It was great.

[00:55:11] I enjoyed it.

[00:55:12] So I'm gonna, like I said, I rewatched it.

[00:55:15] So I'm gonna give it a five.

[00:55:18] Love that.

[00:55:19] It evens out to my score.

[00:55:20] So I'm feeling very, very strong right now.

[00:55:23] Yes, and I'm gonna give it a strong recommend as well.

[00:55:26] So-

[00:55:27] It was number one on Netflix, so some people are watching.

[00:55:31] Yeah, but as Chappelle has taught me,

[00:55:33] you can't really judge.

[00:55:35] You can't judge by what Netflix tells you is number one.

[00:55:40] Shout out nothing but Netflix.

[00:55:42] Yeah.

[00:55:44] Nicole, do you have anything to recommend

[00:55:46] to our listeners by any chance?

[00:55:49] At the moment, I'm trying to think,

[00:55:52] have y'all read And There Were None?

[00:55:54] I read that on my last beach trip,

[00:55:56] the one by Agatha Christie.

[00:55:58] Oh yeah.

[00:55:59] But you know what?

[00:56:00] I read it really quick and there is a crime in that one.

[00:56:03] Knives out, knives out could never.

[00:56:07] Yeah.

[00:56:07] That's all I'll say.

[00:56:08] Agatha Christie is mother.

[00:56:11] Yeah, she is.

[00:56:12] She's incredible.

[00:56:13] She was the original mother.

[00:56:14] Well, not necessarily the original.

[00:56:15] I love Agatha Christie.

[00:56:17] And the great thing about her work

[00:56:18] is that you can read it again,

[00:56:20] knowing what the answer is,

[00:56:21] and you enjoy it then for her crafting.

[00:56:24] You see the, oh my God, she told me,

[00:56:27] she put it right in my face what the answer was.

[00:56:31] And she's incredible.

[00:56:32] There's a wonderful biography of her.

[00:56:36] She's quite a very, very interesting figure who,

[00:56:40] and I'm glad she's the young folk of finding her.

[00:56:43] See, I love that you're like, give us a recommendation,

[00:56:46] like what's hot and fresh.

[00:56:46] And I'm like, here's a 200 year old book.

[00:56:50] Yeah.

[00:56:52] Next on your list, I will put the murder of Roger Ackroyd.

[00:56:56] Nicole, read that and then come back to me.

[00:56:59] I'll circle back.

[00:57:00] My library card has been working overtime.

[00:57:02] So I'll let you know if that one's on hold or not.

[00:57:05] Sign up at your library for free books and audio books.

[00:57:08] We love libraries.

[00:57:10] And sometimes like museum tickets.

[00:57:12] Like, yes, this is my platform.

[00:57:14] Like let's make the libraries amazing again.

[00:57:17] Yeah.

[00:57:18] And make them open every day, Eric Adams,

[00:57:20] mayor of New York City.

[00:57:21] I see you have enough budget for that.

[00:57:25] Sarah, you have anything to recommend to our listeners?

[00:57:28] I do.

[00:57:30] And it's a cautious recommend because it's not perfect

[00:57:33] and has many faults like me, like me, dear listener.

[00:57:40] But it's called Bodkin.

[00:57:41] And it's a story of American podcasters,

[00:57:46] true crime podcasters descending on an Irish village

[00:57:50] to dig up a cold case.

[00:57:52] So of course, you know, straight to our hearts, Mari.

[00:57:55] Will Forte is in it, a very nuanced performance

[00:58:01] because he is a version of the ugly American.

[00:58:04] He's not the loud, brash one.

[00:58:07] You know, he seems the interesting, sympathetic one.

[00:58:09] And then as the episodes go on,

[00:58:13] he reveals the ugliness inside.

[00:58:15] So that's a great performance.

[00:58:18] It's largely Irish cast as well.

[00:58:23] And the mystery is very interesting.

[00:58:26] So as I say, not perfect.

[00:58:29] What is perfect are the incredible title sequences.

[00:58:32] I have, it's absolutely incredible.

[00:58:37] For the title sequence alone, you should watch Bodkin

[00:58:40] and that's on Netflix.

[00:58:42] How about you, Mari?

[00:58:43] I have two recommendations.

[00:58:46] They have absolutely nothing to do with true crime.

[00:58:48] They're just very fun.

[00:58:49] I've been going through my, during my maternity leave,

[00:58:53] I've just been going through a list of things to watch

[00:58:56] because I have a lot of time to watch a lot of things

[00:58:59] right about now.

[00:59:01] So one thing that was recommended to me on Twitter,

[00:59:05] Unfrosted, which I had Unfrosted on my list on Netflix.

[00:59:11] And I just hadn't gotten to it,

[00:59:13] but Unfrosted is basically a comedic,

[00:59:17] the comedic version of the tale of how Pop-Tarts were made.

[00:59:22] And it stars Jerry Seinfeld and Melissa McCarthy.

[00:59:27] And it is just straight hilarious.

[00:59:31] If you're looking like,

[00:59:32] I feel like there's not any like good comedy,

[00:59:35] like a lot, it's really hard to find

[00:59:36] like really good comedies that are like really funny

[00:59:38] and stuff like that nowadays.

[00:59:40] And Unfrosted is hilarious.

[00:59:43] If you're like me,

[00:59:44] where you like learning the history of some things,

[00:59:48] but also again, just love comedy,

[00:59:50] Unfrosted is perfect because it's so, it's so unserious.

[00:59:53] That's the best way to describe it.

[00:59:55] It's the un-serious take on how Pop-Tarts were created.

[01:00:00] So what I did was I watched Unfrosted, found it hilarious.

[01:00:04] And then I followed it up with The Food That Built America

[01:00:08] from the History Channel,

[01:00:09] which was the true story about how Pop-Tarts were made.

[01:00:14] So I would suggest doing that.

[01:00:17] You'll learn a lot, you'll laugh a lot,

[01:00:19] you'll have a lot of fun.

[01:00:20] So I said I had to,

[01:00:22] so technically because I just threw in

[01:00:24] The Food That Built America,

[01:00:25] I have three recommendations.

[01:00:28] My other recommendation, which is also on Netflix,

[01:00:32] The Greatest Night in Pop.

[01:00:34] If you haven't seen that, it came out a few weeks ago.

[01:00:37] It's about how the song, We Are The World was recorded.

[01:00:41] It was written and recorded.

[01:00:43] It is so good on Netflix.

[01:00:45] I don't wanna give it all away,

[01:00:48] but basically Lionel Richie takes us through it.

[01:00:52] It talks to Lionel Richie, but it talks to like,

[01:00:55] there's nothing but big stars in We Are The World, that song

[01:00:59] but Lionel Richie is basically the main driver.

[01:01:01] He tells us, he talks to us about how they had to write

[01:01:05] the song, record the song, like all in one day,

[01:01:09] record the song, music video, all of that all in one day

[01:01:12] because We Are The World, if you don't know,

[01:01:15] which I just realized that there might be young people

[01:01:17] listening to this.

[01:01:18] We are the world.

[01:01:19] They came for Nicole.

[01:01:21] Hey, I know what We Are The World is.

[01:01:23] I know what Prince was doing that night.

[01:01:25] Yes.

[01:01:26] A lot.

[01:01:28] Not that.

[01:01:30] So We Are The World was an aid song

[01:01:36] where like 40 of the greatest musicians in pop,

[01:01:39] all across different pop came together to record a song

[01:01:42] that the proceeds would go to aid African children

[01:01:45] in need like at the time.

[01:01:47] And it was how that came together was just wild.

[01:01:55] So the greatest night in pop walks you through everything

[01:01:59] that happened.

[01:02:00] It was so amazing to watch it again,

[01:02:03] three properties that just get you feeling good

[01:02:07] and in a good mood,

[01:02:08] because sometimes we don't really want to watch true crime

[01:02:10] and stuff like that.

[01:02:11] So at Crime Scene, we are eager to hear your feedback

[01:02:15] and suggestions for future episodes.

[01:02:17] You can follow Crime Scene on Twitter at Crime Scene RHAP

[01:02:21] that's at crime S E E N R H A P

[01:02:25] or email us at crime scene RHAP at gmail.com.

[01:02:29] We're on TikTok at crime.scene.

[01:02:32] No dancing.

[01:02:34] And other social media at Crime Scene Podcast.

[01:02:36] And please remember to subscribe to our feed,

[01:02:38] robhazawebsite.com slash crime feed.

[01:02:41] It makes a big difference.

[01:02:45] Nicole, what do you have going on

[01:02:46] and where can the people find you?

[01:02:48] Well, thank you both again for having me.

[01:02:50] I'm feeling so blessed and highly favored

[01:02:52] to be invited back.

[01:02:54] I am doing Top Chef coverage,

[01:02:57] The Quickfire Queens, me, Naomi Calhoun and Gia Worthy

[01:03:00] over on the silent podcast feeds for Top Chef 21.

[01:03:04] And we also launched a drag race podcast

[01:03:06] over at Silent Podcast.

[01:03:07] So we'll be going live every Saturday

[01:03:10] to kind of be like, all the girls go out for drag race.

[01:03:13] So we're gonna be like your hangover talk show

[01:03:15] after you leave the club to watch drag race.

[01:03:18] We'll be there in the morning to debrief you

[01:03:20] on all the shenanigans there.

[01:03:22] And I'm still doing Isaiah and Nicole show

[01:03:24] over there with Isaiah Goins.

[01:03:25] We had a crazy episode with Rob a few weeks ago

[01:03:28] of Austin Ancestor Nino.

[01:03:30] So if you wanna hear why he tweeted my podcast and bio

[01:03:34] that originated on Isaiah and Nicole.

[01:03:37] So check us out over at Silent Podcast

[01:03:39] and I'm behind the secret all over the internet,

[01:03:43] any social media, even though I fell off on TikTok

[01:03:46] I'm still posting blindly on X.

[01:03:49] So you'll find me.

[01:03:51] You wanna find me, you can find me.

[01:03:54] Sarah, what do you got going on

[01:03:55] and where can people find you?

[01:03:57] People can follow me at Sarah Carradine

[01:03:59] on all the things over on Silent Podcasts.

[01:04:03] I'm working every hour that God gave me.

[01:04:09] I'm covering season 17 of Taskmaster UK

[01:04:13] and season two of Taskmaster Australia.

[01:04:16] We've reached the finale of season two of Alone Australia

[01:04:20] and survivor Eden Porter joined Annabelle Fidler

[01:04:23] and me to cover the end of this fantastic season.

[01:04:26] If you haven't watched it, it's a real goodie.

[01:04:29] And I'm covering the Traitors Quebec

[01:04:31] with Sam Smith from the Traitors New Zealand

[01:04:34] in a show we call What Did They Francais?

[01:04:37] Because neither of us speaks French

[01:04:39] but we're managing to recap it nonetheless.

[01:04:42] What about you Mari?

[01:04:44] Well, I'm back slowly tiptoeing back in.

[01:04:50] So I'll be here on crime scene

[01:04:51] and eventually I will be back on the recap kickback

[01:04:55] with Chappelle, me and Chappelle over there

[01:04:57] talking about whatever the hell we wanna talk about.

[01:04:59] So you can go to recapkickback.com in order to subscribe.

[01:05:05] We will be doing a House of the Dragon coverage

[01:05:08] over on the recap kickback.

[01:05:10] So if you wanna talk about them dragons with us

[01:05:13] then come check us out when that starts in a few weeks.

[01:05:18] Me and Matt are still on hiatus.

[01:05:20] So I will let you know

[01:05:21] when the wrestling rehab up comes back

[01:05:23] but right now just enjoying my maternity leave,

[01:05:26] taking it slow and of course talking true crime

[01:05:29] with you here, Sarah.

[01:05:32] But you can follow me on Twitter at MariTalksTooMuch.

[01:05:35] That's two like the number two.

[01:05:38] If you follow me there, I have not taken a break there.

[01:05:40] I'm always over there.

[01:05:43] And so you can find out what I'm doing

[01:05:46] by following me over there.

[01:05:49] Sarah, what are we watching next week?

[01:05:52] Next week on Crime Scene,

[01:05:53] we're covering the contestant with Shannon Guss.

[01:05:58] It is truly wild.

[01:06:01] We had to find one that didn't have a murder in it

[01:06:03] to get Shannon onto the podcast.

[01:06:05] So we are delighted to be joined by her next week.

[01:06:08] Watch it on Hulu and send us your comments and questions.

[01:06:13] Thanks to Nicole Horn for joining us.

[01:06:15] Will from America for the theme music

[01:06:17] and whole RGP team behind the scenes.

[01:06:19] Until next time.

[01:06:21] Case closed.