Crime Seen | Episode 95: As We Speak: Rap Music on Trial

[00:00:00] Hello everyone, I'm Mari 4th.

[00:00:27] I'm Sarah Carradine, podcasting from AORA Sydney.

[00:00:31] And this is Crime Scene, the True Crime Review podcast where we get to the heart of how True

[00:00:34] Crime stories are told.

[00:00:36] You can get this podcast along with all the other fantastic reality TV content by subscribing

[00:00:41] to RobHazelwebsite.com slash We're HapUp's Feed. That's RobHHazel website.com slash R-H-A-P-U-P-S feed.

[00:00:49] We'd love it if you would subscribe to our dedicated feed as well. Please go to RobHazel website.com slash crime feed.

[00:00:57] You'll get your true crime on Tuesdays. If you've already subscribed, thank you so much. Last week we watched Mr. Organ with our guest,

[00:01:08] Mark Blankenship, and Marie,

[00:01:10] what did we watch this week?

[00:01:12] This week we watched as we speak,

[00:01:15] rap music on trial on Paramount+.

[00:01:18] It was directed by J.M. Harper,

[00:01:20] who was an editor of Genius Akane Trilogy from 2022.

[00:01:27] And joining us, my brother from another mother,

[00:01:31] the host of the recap kickback and seven-time guest,

[00:01:35] now officially leapfrogging Matt Scott.

[00:01:38] It's our friend, Chappelle, Chappelle.

[00:01:41] Chappelle, several time guest.

[00:01:44] Several time guests.

[00:01:46] You take that Matt Scott.

[00:01:47] I'm back baby and I'm excited because I enjoyed my time watching this and I'm dying to talk

[00:01:54] to you all about it.

[00:01:55] So thank you all for having me back.

[00:01:57] Yes, I completely agree.

[00:02:00] So to the documentary Bronx wrap artist Kimba explores their growing weaponization of rap lyrics by law enforcement in the United States and the United Kingdom. So very brief description here.

[00:02:14] Not necessarily a crime, but a very good documentary overall. Chappelle, I'll start with you. What are your overall thoughts about as we speak rap music on trial?

[00:02:29] I thought this was so cool.

[00:02:31] I thought that the conversation about rap music being on trial is so nuanced and I thought

[00:02:36] this documentary or whatever you want to call it.

[00:02:39] I kind of think it's more like a movie.

[00:02:40] But you know, it really, yeah, it felt like a movie to me, but it really did just kind

[00:02:45] of outline a lot of the different angles you can look at this conversation because right now,

[00:02:51] it's very popular. They'll talk about it throughout this documentary, but it's very popular for,

[00:02:56] you know, black people, especially rappers to be looked at in a certain way, and that the way

[00:03:01] they're looked at being used against them when it comes to rap, right? So like we have like the young thug trial that's very that's pertinent right now and at front of my front of mind with everybody

[00:03:11] Where it's a Rico case and they're using his rap lyrics against them

[00:03:14] And this has happened a ton of times and probably more than we can even count

[00:03:18] And so to talk about it in a way that allows you to say hey, it's more than just if you do don't rap about it. There's a lot more nuance to that conversation. I thought this was so cool. I did not expect

[00:03:29] to enjoy this as much as I did. I can't lie. Yeah, me neither. Sarah, how about you? What did you

[00:03:36] think? Well, spoiler for my ratings. I loved it. I just, I loved it. It wasn't at all what I

[00:03:43] expected. I thought it would be drier.

[00:03:45] I thought it would be procedural and we'd be looking at specific cases and actual lyrics and

[00:03:52] yes, that does come up. But the way it's done, I mean, it's so, it reminds me most of all the

[00:03:58] things we've done, Mary, of the artist and the thief, which is one of my favorite things that we've done. I sort of dream like almost exploration, like a meditation or like a poem or like a wrap

[00:04:11] in itself. Some of the talking heads, I thought they were almost rapping when they were talking

[00:04:16] about the passion that they had for artistic expression and for freedom and for the criminalization of young black men in particular.

[00:04:26] And it starts with Kemba packing his suitcase.

[00:04:30] And then he rolls his suitcase all over America and then to the United Kingdom.

[00:04:36] And I was so charmed. That sounds, sounds almost wrong, but I was charmed when he was in a diner with a group of rappers and

[00:04:46] there's his suitcase. We know it's a conceit, but it was just this idea of travel and him trying to

[00:04:55] pair away. He goes and he gets a two-way from a second hand shop because he wants to be under

[00:05:01] the grid, but I also thought it was also that he wants to pair away.

[00:05:05] He doesn't want to be on the internet on his phone.

[00:05:07] He wants to make connection with people.

[00:05:10] And I just, oh, I just, I can't say enough about it.

[00:05:13] And it was completely unexpected,

[00:05:16] even from seeing the trailer.

[00:05:18] What about you, Mary?

[00:05:19] Yeah, the way that it was shot, like, like,

[00:05:22] Chappelle said, it was almost a movie.

[00:05:24] Like the whole thing is like a recreation,

[00:05:27] but it's done in such a way that the storytelling

[00:05:32] is just amazing that how they weaved

[00:05:36] this background story while also telling

[00:05:39] all of these other stories.

[00:05:41] Like, I was really blown away.

[00:05:43] When we first had thought about covering this,

[00:05:45] I was like, okay, we had already watched the other one, the other rap on trial documentary

[00:05:53] that we were originally going to cover on show, but I was like, there wasn't that much meat on the

[00:05:58] bones for that one. And then I had watched the King, a King Vawn YouTube documentary about like King Vawn,

[00:06:11] a rapper slash serial killer who talked about all the murders

[00:06:15] he did both in his songs and on social media.

[00:06:19] And both of those were done in such a way that weren't nuanced,

[00:06:23] that weren't really as captivating.

[00:06:26] So I, unfortunately I didn't have high hopes for this one,

[00:06:30] but this one truly did.

[00:06:33] I can't even describe to our listeners the scope

[00:06:37] of all of the subjects covered in this documentary

[00:06:41] in a way that like they threw so much at us and educated us on so much,

[00:06:47] but it doesn't feel overwhelming. They completely weaved it into the fabric of the story that it

[00:06:54] all made sense. And then on top of that, they were so appreciative of hip hop music and black cultural music in general that it was just

[00:07:06] it's amazing to be quite honest it's amazing so one of the premises was like

[00:07:12] Sarah said Kimba is traveling across the US I didn't realize this was gonna be

[00:07:18] the premise until we're like on the second city I was like oh snap because

[00:07:22] any black person knows that hip hop, a lot of people

[00:07:26] try and put hip hop under an umbrella.

[00:07:28] Normally that umbrella is where it started and originated,

[00:07:32] which is thought of in New York.

[00:07:34] And they start by going to Atlanta and then talking about

[00:07:39] outcast, talking about the movement of hip hop in the south.

[00:07:43] And this is why I thought we were gonna get

[00:07:45] a lot of the young thug thing.

[00:07:46] I think a lot of these documentaries are getting

[00:07:49] green lit because of the young thug thing.

[00:07:51] I was actually glad that they only,

[00:07:53] they maybe like referenced that.

[00:07:55] And then they reference Mac Vips,

[00:07:57] whose case was the basis for the whole

[00:07:59] other documentary that we watched.

[00:08:01] I was afraid that this is gonna be another

[00:08:03] documentary on his case. And it wasn't. They gave just enough about his case I

[00:08:07] felt like in order to get the point across. But then he goes from Atlanta to

[00:08:13] LA and then talks about the music scene in LA. Then he goes to Chicago and it's

[00:08:19] like oh my god they are actually taking us on a journey of hip hop music and how it's regional, how it's different.

[00:08:27] So you're educating people on the different sounds

[00:08:31] and the different nuances of all this hip hop music.

[00:08:35] Well, also showing that no matter where you go,

[00:08:38] it's being criminalized.

[00:08:39] It's being criminalized.

[00:08:41] I really like this aspect of it.

[00:08:44] Shappelle, what did you think as somebody

[00:08:46] who I know is like a hip hop head?

[00:08:49] Yeah, this was cool, y'all.

[00:08:51] I'm sorry, I know it's like a,

[00:08:52] the subject matter is kind of dark,

[00:08:53] but I think Sarah used the right word.

[00:08:55] She said it was charming in a way, right?

[00:08:57] And I think that the subject matter

[00:08:59] of a lot of these rap songs and a lot of these cases,

[00:09:02] it's being used against them because it is violent, right?

[00:09:04] It's a dark gritty story that people are talking about their actual lives, but there's not a lot of charm to that a lot of these cases, it's being used against them because it is violent, right? It's a dark gritty story that people are talking about their actual lives, but there's not a

[00:09:07] lot of charm to that a lot of times where you're talking about killing and and Robin,

[00:09:11] thievery, but this really, yeah, it makes these people larger than life characters,

[00:09:16] you know, just based off of their rap presence. But this really humanizes them. It takes them

[00:09:20] from like superhuman to just regular like one to one basis, Kimba with the suitcase talking to these people and saying, now what exactly

[00:09:27] happened to you and that why would you like okay, why are you rapping about

[00:09:30] this? And they say, what else was I supposed to rap about? One of the coolest

[00:09:33] parts was I think they were in Chicago and they were talking to no yeah,

[00:09:37] they were no it was that group of people that Sarah was talking about.

[00:09:40] No before that, where they're at the diner. I think it might have been there at the diner? It might have been Chicago, but they're talking.

[00:09:46] And he says, okay, so why are you rapping about violence stuff?

[00:09:49] Anyway, he says, I've never been to Miami.

[00:09:51] I can't rap about a beach.

[00:09:53] You know, exactly.

[00:09:55] You know, you rap about his surroundings.

[00:09:57] And I'm like, yeah, of course.

[00:09:58] You know, and so to know that prosecutors are using lyrics

[00:10:03] that are about people's lived experience that might not necessarily be violent. And then

[00:10:07] taking those words and splicing them together and saying,

[00:10:10] because this person said something violent on a song, that is a

[00:10:13] mark of their character as a human. When it's not looked across

[00:10:16] the all genres like that, there were so many cool points in

[00:10:19] this episode where I thought, of course, you need to talk about

[00:10:22] this part of rap. Of course, you need to go to LA. Of course course you need to go over here. And then when they go to London, I am not the say to a singer, you're not allowed to sing anymore.

[00:10:47] Yeah, that's it.

[00:10:48] You can do whatever you like.

[00:10:49] We're not going to put you in jail again.

[00:10:51] We already did that.

[00:10:53] But you're not allowed to sing anymore.

[00:10:55] How do you, how do you remove someone's artistic expression?

[00:11:00] And I think to Chappelle, the, what you're referencing with the Adam Dunbar study, he took the lyrics of a 1950s blues song called Bad Man's Blunder,

[00:11:12] which is about going into a bar and getting drunk and accidentally, or perhaps on purpose, shooting a sheriff and that that was not the right thing to do. And they just wrote the lyrics out plain

[00:11:25] and labeled them either country music, heavy metal or rap,

[00:11:30] and then gave the respondents in the study the sheets,

[00:11:34] the lyrics and what genre it was,

[00:11:36] and how they had very, very different opinions

[00:11:41] on the quality, the, of the writer of the lyrics, depending entirely

[00:11:52] on the genre. And I suppose it's something I could have come to myself, but to have that

[00:11:57] study there, it's so bold. And the other thing that this documentarian does, and it's almost like the murder blamed on a black man

[00:12:07] that we covered, Mary, is they give us the history,

[00:12:11] they ground us in the history of music,

[00:12:14] the history of black music, this led to this,

[00:12:17] led to this, led to this.

[00:12:18] And I just love that,

[00:12:19] because I come from theater and music

[00:12:22] and opera and all of that.

[00:12:23] And I love to see what has built on what else and what influences and so on.

[00:12:28] And then I love that he ended up back where he started, that he ended in the Bronx,

[00:12:32] which is where he came from.

[00:12:34] And he's talking to Shah Aq, and they're sitting in the car listening to music.

[00:12:39] It's was I was just, yeah, I was really blown away by it.

[00:12:45] It was, I was just, yeah, I was really blown away by it.

[00:12:49] There's something to be said about being able to look at history and look at the way the conversations that are having,

[00:12:52] especially in the United States right now, about race theory

[00:12:56] and what does it mean to look back at the time

[00:12:58] and highlight things that are not as pretty

[00:13:01] when it comes from the majority culture, right?

[00:13:04] All the bad things white folks have done and people are trying to hide them and

[00:13:08] say, okay, well, we don't want people to feel bad for that kind of stuff.

[00:13:11] We don't want people to be judged by the actions of a smaller group of people.

[00:13:14] We move past that racism isn't a thing anymore.

[00:13:17] We've heard it all.

[00:13:18] But every time you look at a way that black people or other minorities,

[00:13:24] honestly, are being marginalized.

[00:13:25] If you go back far enough, it's all a history

[00:13:29] of being marginalized by different things.

[00:13:31] And it just keeps reforming and reshaping.

[00:13:33] And if we don't go back and talk about those things,

[00:13:38] we never will.

[00:13:39] I learned so much in this documentary

[00:13:41] from the time they started talking about

[00:13:44] how drums were outlawed because, oh,

[00:13:46] we could have lent them in sight of violence with drums.

[00:13:49] Drums are outlawed, you know?

[00:13:51] Exactly.

[00:13:52] And it's like, you try to take drums from people.

[00:13:54] They call it rock and roll devil music.

[00:13:56] They say it was ruining white women's lives,

[00:14:00] you know what I'm saying?

[00:14:00] Like you gotta keep all this black stuff away from people.

[00:14:04] And then it's like, but also we want to consume all of it and tell you what you

[00:14:08] can and cannot say, even though we're telling you it's bad.

[00:14:11] We're going to be the dominant culture to where we can, we can now purchase

[00:14:16] your stuff, make money off of it, but then also tell you when and you, when

[00:14:19] and how you can use it.

[00:14:20] And then even put you in jail with it.

[00:14:22] This is a history lesson.

[00:14:23] And I enjoyed every second of it.

[00:14:25] Exactly. The the tracing of the lineage of hip hop music and

[00:14:30] black music and its subsequent criminalization at every step

[00:14:35] was just amazing. Again, like you said, starting with the

[00:14:41] slave riots and the slave revolts where drums were used and Negro spirituals were sung

[00:14:47] and how drums were then outlawed going to leapfrogging

[00:14:51] to the rock and roll music, but more importantly,

[00:14:55] when we get to rap in the 90s and hip hop and gangster rap

[00:14:58] and how they had the archival footage of Tipper Gore

[00:15:01] and the parental label and two live crew, um,

[00:15:07] fighting obscenity charges. It's, it's stuff that like, we,

[00:15:12] if you're in the culture, you know, we, this is a history lesson that we do know,

[00:15:17] but the way that it's, it's, it's explained here

[00:15:21] is really, really beautifully done. And again, guys, this is just the hip hop portion of the documentary.

[00:15:29] We haven't even talked about the legal aspect of the documentary and how at the same time,

[00:15:36] we're getting a history of the genre of hip hop.

[00:15:39] We are getting a history of the criminalization of black people, black bodies, and then how our own art form

[00:15:47] is being used against us in several different cases. This was just amazing. On top of it,

[00:15:55] then again, doing like a mock trial of sorts. Oh, that was, that was fantastic. Yeah. When the

[00:16:00] documentary goes back to enslavement, and we hear about the drums being outlawed,

[00:16:06] we need to hear this.

[00:16:08] Everybody needs to hear this.

[00:16:09] It happened.

[00:16:10] It was done.

[00:16:11] It was done by white people against black people.

[00:16:15] These are facts.

[00:16:16] Bloody, just eat them.

[00:16:18] But what to me was just this moment was, and the workers, the enslaved people in the cotton fields were

[00:16:28] not allowed to be silent. They were instructed to sing because the slave owners were afraid

[00:16:34] that in the silence the revolt would be fermented. So the enslaved people just sang, you know, diss tracks basically about the overseers

[00:16:47] and the landowners and the slave owners

[00:16:50] in their own language.

[00:16:51] And I thought the power of revolt

[00:16:55] and also the power that the oppressors understood

[00:17:00] that silence was.

[00:17:02] So not only will we take your voice,

[00:17:04] we will take your work, we will take your sweat, we will take your work, we will take your

[00:17:06] sweat, we will take your children, we will take your bodies. But we won't even allow you your own

[00:17:11] thoughts in silence. And I just, I was, I was very moved and shaken by that. Again, something I sort of knew, but for it to just be handed to me in a very pleasant

[00:17:28] way, it's like, by the way, would you like to just think about this?

[00:17:32] And I thought, yeah, I would like to just think about it.

[00:17:35] You know, I get to sit in my silence and think about it.

[00:17:37] I thought that was incredibly powerful.

[00:17:40] Yeah, exactly.

[00:17:42] And we still use that in order to communicate and to still rebel and all of that. So it was great. But yeah, let's talk about this, the legal portion. I really liked Kimba talking to the lawyer. I believe her name was Alexandria Kazarian. So she sits down with him and she gives

[00:18:12] him this scenario. She says, okay, say you're on a, you're in the Bronx, you're on a train platform,

[00:18:18] a couple of stations away, a, a bodega gets robbed. and in the process of a robbery somebody is murdered and through

[00:18:30] some sort of witness or something like that the fingers pointed at you Kimma somebody says oh

[00:18:35] Kimbo is at the place they go and they arrest you and then now they have probable cause they can

[00:18:42] now use anything like you've done against you and now they want to use your

[00:18:49] wrapping and your hip hop.

[00:18:51] And this, I love this because it explains why our judicial system is not a fair one.

[00:18:58] It's not a blind one.

[00:18:59] It is a classes system that normally dictates your level of means is what normally dictates

[00:19:06] is the thin line between freedom and being locked up.

[00:19:10] And she expresses to him, she's like, okay,

[00:19:13] so they have a, maybe they have a witness

[00:19:17] or they have somebody who says you might be there.

[00:19:20] Now they have your lyrics where you just so happen

[00:19:23] to say that you're coming for all your ops, you know, or something like that.

[00:19:26] Not even specific lyrics to say, oh, I, I, uh, Kim was like, I never said, I never said any lyrics about, uh, uh, robbery, edible dig or anything like that.

[00:19:36] She's like, doesn't matter.

[00:19:38] You know, if you say anything remotely violent, they can use it, but they can't use it as like character study.

[00:19:45] They gotta introduce it like, like something else,

[00:19:49] like setting the groundwork.

[00:19:51] And she's like, now do you want to take a plea bargain and,

[00:19:56] you know, maybe give up one to two years, confess to something you didn't do,

[00:19:59] or do you want to put your fate in the hands of 12 people

[00:20:03] and possibly go away for life?

[00:20:05] And this was just, I mean, again, something that if you follow the legal system, this

[00:20:11] shouldn't be surprising.

[00:20:13] But just the way that they kind of break things down and they like, it's like, explain to

[00:20:19] me like I'm five.

[00:20:20] You know, say like, that's how it is, but not in a condescending way.

[00:20:24] It's in such a

[00:20:25] like, oh, yeah, type of way that you're like, I love, I love this. I love all of this.

[00:20:34] Rob here. We got a great first week of March here on Rob has a podcast on Monday. Club

[00:20:39] condo is opening its doors where Chappelle and I will be talking about the funniest things that happen on

[00:20:45] Survivor each week. Wednesday, BB-Can 12 is back. Taren's got all your coverage this season.

[00:20:52] Then Jam Jam is going to be with me live after the episode for the Survivor Post Game Show

[00:20:57] and on Thursday, we've got the Traders Finale. It's going to be a huge week here at RHAP.

[00:21:03] We know reality TV.

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[00:21:37] Shappelle, what did you think about like the sort of the mock trial and then maybe like

[00:21:43] we'll then get into some of the actual cases they covered.

[00:21:47] Yeah, knowing that they're using music lyrics that these people have said or whatever as like

[00:21:54] ways to paint you in a certain light, it is very interesting to me because I'm a person who I

[00:21:59] listen to a lot of music. I'm a DJ. So I listen to a lot of music and I can tell you and I'm also

[00:22:04] a Texan and so I can also tell you that there are some violent country songs

[00:22:07] just like there are rap songs right and Sarah brought it up earlier but you

[00:22:12] know if you take away the genre these songs might sound the same to certain

[00:22:16] people but when you the moment you put a genre on it it codes it as oh if it's

[00:22:20] rap it's black you know what I'm saying and so it's kind of automatically

[00:22:24] exactly so that automatically gives you a vision

[00:22:26] of who this person is.

[00:22:27] I listen to a ton of rap music.

[00:22:29] I listen to like the nice light and fluffy stuff.

[00:22:32] I listen to the dance stuff.

[00:22:33] And then I listen to the grimy stuff.

[00:22:35] Some of these rappers in this documentary,

[00:22:37] I was like, yeah, heard that song before.

[00:22:39] You know, and so, is that enough evidence

[00:22:42] to paint my character a certain way, right?

[00:22:44] As someone who consumes this information, right?

[00:22:46] Yeah, what is this?

[00:22:47] Yeah.

[00:22:48] Right.

[00:22:49] These people are the ones who are writing it, but I listened to this.

[00:22:50] This is my favorite song and it's about, you know, XYZ and it has references to killing

[00:22:56] or, you know, robbery or whatever the case may be.

[00:22:58] Do I now be in front of a judge and you say, well, look at the type of music he listens

[00:23:02] to.

[00:23:03] Is it out of the realm of possibility that he do another violent crime?

[00:23:06] You know, and then to hear that and think,

[00:23:07] well, reasonably speaking, I don't think I would,

[00:23:10] I don't think that would paint me as guilty,

[00:23:12] but also to know that you're not putting this

[00:23:14] in the hands of people who do not understand you,

[00:23:15] who don't know you, they don't know your story.

[00:23:17] And you also give it a public defender a lot of time,

[00:23:20] if you are poor like myself,

[00:23:22] you're getting a public defender and they have not read your case.

[00:23:25] They don't know you.

[00:23:26] They're looking through their stack of documents.

[00:23:29] You're the next thing on the docket.

[00:23:30] And so they go, okay, let's see what we can do here.

[00:23:33] So a plea deal starts to sound really attractive.

[00:23:36] When you know, you can see the evidence that they have against you

[00:23:39] because you said it, you said, you know, who didn't pay it in the

[00:23:42] song like I admitted to guilt.

[00:23:44] But yeah, if you said, yeah, I was didn't say it in the song like, I admitted to guilt.

[00:23:45] But yeah, if you said, yeah, I was gang banging or I was with my friends and they are part

[00:23:48] of a gang and then somebody got robbed, blah, blah.

[00:23:51] And then that person takes one part of this song and this part of the next song says, oh,

[00:23:55] murder, murder, kill, kill robbery.

[00:23:58] This is the guy who likes this.

[00:24:00] Is there a world where you can see this person doing it?

[00:24:02] You don't know what those jurors are going to think.

[00:24:04] And so to think that prosecutors are pushing

[00:24:06] for convictions, but the plea deals

[00:24:08] are what is really getting them those convictions,

[00:24:10] it's crazy to me, especially no way that a lot of times

[00:24:13] it's just somebody thinking,

[00:24:15] the justice system has not done good for me yet.

[00:24:18] Why would it start to do good for me now?

[00:24:20] Let me take the plea deal,

[00:24:21] I'll do the minimum of whatever I gotta do

[00:24:23] and try to get my life back together as opposed to leaving my hands and leave for my life in the hands of a

[00:24:28] bunch of people who do not have my best interest in it and see what, see what

[00:24:33] happens, you know, and I, all of that was just like, I can say, it's stuff that I

[00:24:37] know as a human as a black person as well, but it's also something that I don't

[00:24:42] have to see and practice all the time. And to know that it's happening more times than we're probably ever know about that was jarring,

[00:24:48] but also very enticing as a something to watch on television.

[00:24:53] Yeah. So we get a case of Draco the ruler when we're in

[00:24:59] Los Angeles. I absolutely love hearing about this case. This

[00:25:04] is probably like you're the most like cut and dry

[00:25:08] true crime part of this documentary.

[00:25:12] I had no idea about the case itself, but basically,

[00:25:16] Draco the Ruler is a rapper who is really widely known

[00:25:20] in Los Angeles, so known that his entourage has

[00:25:24] normally has gang members in it.

[00:25:26] And one night his gang member, his entourage who has like, I think they're like, he had two

[00:25:32] bloods or something like that in his entourage. They see a crip at one of his shows. They kill

[00:25:40] one of, they kill one of the opposing gang members. And Draco himself ends up on trial in that case,

[00:25:50] even though the prosecutor, everybody knows

[00:25:54] who actually did it, everybody knows who pulled the trigger,

[00:25:57] you know, but the prosecutor is,

[00:26:00] the current prosecutor was very well bent

[00:26:04] on going after Draco.

[00:26:06] And we get Draco's story here.

[00:26:09] This was so good in a sense of like,

[00:26:14] if you were looking for your standard true crime,

[00:26:19] like look at a case and break it down,

[00:26:21] this was the part that will appeal to you.

[00:26:24] Sarah, what did you think of the part

[00:26:26] with Draco the Rapper in his legal case? I think to start with it's placed in a in the perfect

[00:26:35] place in the in the documentary in the film. We don't start with it. We don't finish with it. It's

[00:26:41] we come to it and the and cva and the documentarian trust us to have

[00:26:47] listened to this to the material.

[00:26:49] They've shown us to the discussions that Canva's been

[00:26:51] having with various people.

[00:26:53] And so we come to I felt like I came to the case of Draco

[00:26:57] the ruler with it's not like more knowledge, but more

[00:27:01] nuance.

[00:27:02] Chappelle you've used that word a couple of times and the

[00:27:04] nuance didn't escape us when we, when we came to this. like more knowledge but more nuance. Chappelle you've used that word a couple of times and the nuance

[00:27:12] didn't escape us when we came to this. Yes, it's the most true crimey but because of the

[00:27:20] different shades of meaning that have been brought from all sides, it was devastating and to see

[00:27:26] also how well that's also a really good way to elevate a martyr. You know, if they weren't already popular, why don't you just put them in jail unfairly

[00:27:31] and then see what happens?

[00:27:33] So it's taking one person as a symbol, young black men, what we do to you, we intend to

[00:27:43] do to all young black men, it's women as well, of course, but very much black men in the rap scene as I understand it.

[00:27:53] It's a, you know, be warned.

[00:27:58] Everybody else be warned, because if we can do this to this person, who has quite a high status within your community,

[00:28:05] what else can we do to all of you? And it's so stark. And I think it would have been anyway

[00:28:13] if we'd had a documentary just about the Draco case. I think we would have drawn some of these

[00:28:18] conclusions anyway. But the placement of it within this film where we've been enwrapped by the information,

[00:28:26] where we've listened to quite different people

[00:28:29] talking from different angles.

[00:28:31] We had a public health officer, Danielle Kendricks,

[00:28:35] and she used terms like street involved,

[00:28:37] which I thought, oh, that's, what does that mean?

[00:28:40] She was talking about people who aren't in gangs,

[00:28:42] but they have to be on the street because they're, you know, going, get trying to get the bus at 7.30 in the morning to school.

[00:28:50] And if they're not protected, then they are not going to make it to school.

[00:28:53] And various other people who I'm sure we'll talk about. But having heard all of them and then to come to this case, and it.

[00:29:01] There was such a light touch.

[00:29:04] The filmmaker just lit the facts,

[00:29:08] I suppose what effects, but lit the facts sit for themselves.

[00:29:13] And now he's dead as well.

[00:29:16] Yeah, he was stabbed and killed in 2021.

[00:29:19] And the wild thing is that he wasn't acquitted into what 2020,

[00:29:24] right? And so they had him in solitary confinement for nine

[00:29:28] months while he made his album, which was wildly considered

[00:29:31] the greatest rap album ever recorded from a jail. I mean,

[00:29:35] and there have been others and trust me, I'm a Gucci man

[00:29:39] stand. So yeah, so what it's it's wild to me because Draco's case was very much they wanted the big fish.

[00:29:47] Like Maris said, they were trying to keep him. He was innocent and so they used the rap lyrics

[00:29:52] that he had said on different songs and said, okay, well, this is obviously you, you're this person.

[00:29:58] He said he had RJ tied up in the back who was a rival rapper. They talked to RJ and RJ said,

[00:30:03] no, I don't think it's about me. We do.

[00:30:05] Yeah.

[00:30:06] Like, no, everyone's talking about me.

[00:30:07] You know, it was just lyrics.

[00:30:09] I don't think I was in danger.

[00:30:10] That kind of thing.

[00:30:11] And so they bring in these, this evidence to say,

[00:30:14] well, obviously this is a bad person.

[00:30:16] This is a person who can do that,

[00:30:17] who has the capacity to do bad things.

[00:30:20] Let's lock them up just in case.

[00:30:21] And then when the DA switched,

[00:30:23] they just completely drop it because

[00:30:25] they're like, well, the new DA not gonna go for this, you know, this witch hunt that we got going on.

[00:30:29] So yeah, all of a sudden this man is completely safe to be around and he's perfectly fine. And so

[00:30:34] to imagine that he wasted the last few years of his life being tried and convicted of a crime that

[00:30:41] he did not commit. It's just incredible to me.

[00:30:46] And only for him to then die at the hands of senseless violence

[00:30:50] that wasn't gang related.

[00:30:51] It was just a senseless violence.

[00:30:53] And so, you know, like all that to say,

[00:30:55] this man could have lived his life.

[00:30:57] Maybe he wouldn't even be in that same place

[00:30:59] if not taking advantage of a biased system

[00:31:01] that was not made for him and using his own lyrics,

[00:31:04] his artwork, his artistry, the thing that makes him not only special, but also the thing that

[00:31:09] is potentially getting him out of this situation against him to incriminate him.

[00:31:14] This was so, it was so fascinating to listen to, but also it's painful to watch and to

[00:31:19] know that this thing happens and it happens a lot.

[00:31:21] Yeah.

[00:31:22] And that the justice system says, we know you didn't do it.

[00:31:25] We know who did that.

[00:31:26] We know who done the murder.

[00:31:28] And it weren't you.

[00:31:29] However, you are an indicted conspirator to this murder.

[00:31:36] Because you performed your hearts.

[00:31:39] Yeah, you're a statistic.

[00:31:40] And he was trying to quit it.

[00:31:42] He was actually acquitted the first time.

[00:31:44] And they retried, retried.

[00:31:48] Yeah.

[00:31:48] Yeah, let's have another go at that.

[00:31:51] Yeah.

[00:31:51] And he doubled jeopardy.

[00:31:53] I don't know, they just charge him with something else.

[00:31:55] Yeah.

[00:31:56] And he was incarcerated for three years too,

[00:31:58] on something he did not do.

[00:32:01] And I thought it did a great job of also, which I thought

[00:32:08] this was good talking about the DA's offices and they they they

[00:32:13] laid out the jobs of police officers, DA's, and they're like

[00:32:19] it's the DA who decides stuff. And I really like this because

[00:32:22] again, something you should know but something

[00:32:25] that all people might not know.

[00:32:28] I don't want to give too much more away about this documentary because I truly honestly think

[00:32:36] our listeners need to go and watch it.

[00:32:39] I don't.

[00:32:40] Yeah, I don't think that this was probably on this probably going to be on a lot of true

[00:32:44] crime list and stuff like that

[00:32:46] So we are going to be the ones like the major voices beating the drums of going to watch this

[00:32:51] But we are allowed to have drums right right

[00:32:57] And and

[00:32:59] We have we have had such a great like nuanced conversation and still it doesn't even touch like half of the stuff

[00:33:08] that was like really covered here.

[00:33:10] But I do have to say,

[00:33:13] before we get into our ratings and all of that stuff

[00:33:15] or anything like that,

[00:33:16] we gotta visit Chicago

[00:33:18] because I got really excited here,

[00:33:20] Chappelle when they went to Chicago,

[00:33:22] especially after,

[00:33:24] I know the two of us have talked so much about covering the drill scene and stuff like that and how not only lyrics, but now social media. the ramp up of it's like, okay, the first three stops, the first half of the documentary is about

[00:33:47] the criminalization of music and stuff like that.

[00:33:49] But now, where does it end?

[00:33:52] I feel like, where does it stop?

[00:33:54] Is where I felt like it was going when we go to Chicago

[00:33:56] in London because in Chicago, they're not only using lyrics,

[00:34:01] but now social media posts are up for grabs.

[00:34:05] You could take a rapper or anybody social media posts

[00:34:09] and use it against them in court.

[00:34:12] And I really love the Chicago section

[00:34:14] because Cabrini Greens is brought up.

[00:34:17] And how Chicago created their own problem

[00:34:21] and the rise of drill and chief Keith.

[00:34:23] And they even kind of touch on how the music

[00:34:26] industry exploits artists

[00:34:28] This was so good told through a story of

[00:34:34] A city that can be widely

[00:34:37] Misunderstood, what were your thoughts on the Chicago section here?

[00:34:42] Anytime somebody says cabrina hearing I

[00:34:47] Because you know that means we about to start talking about some real stuff here, you know? Yeah. Yeah. And so, to see them

[00:34:52] talking about how the projects being destroyed, essentially, and then people

[00:34:57] who lived in these, in this poverty who were separated and like isolated from

[00:35:02] the, the, the masses of Chicago are now out in Chicago, but they are

[00:35:06] still dealing with the the the violence that they might have been dealing with before. There's

[00:35:10] redlining. There's random

[00:35:12] There's a neighborhood. Exactly. And I was like Chicago is so it's so dangerous and stuff like

[00:35:18] that. It's like it's almost like you took away these people's homes and put them in a situation

[00:35:21] where they were homeless and trying to make a way amongst rivaling factions of people.

[00:35:26] And so I was like, yeah, of course,

[00:35:29] they might have got a violent amongst each other

[00:35:31] and now everybody's talking about it.

[00:35:32] And you can't go a day without hearing

[00:35:34] about how violent Chicago is

[00:35:36] as if there isn't violence all over the country.

[00:35:38] I know you mentioned even the social media posts.

[00:35:41] We watched that King Vah in documentary.

[00:35:43] King Vah was outlining the stuff that he actually did on social media posts. We watched that King Vah documentary. He was King Vah was outlining the stuff that he actually did.

[00:35:47] Yeah, it's a stuff like that will give these prosecutors reason

[00:35:51] to say, look, it it worked with King Vah. Why don't we do that

[00:35:54] for everybody? But when prosecutors are more intent on

[00:35:57] finding a a fall person, they're more they're trying to find a

[00:36:01] conviction. They don't care if you're innocent or not. They

[00:36:04] want to get a conviction. Okay,'t care if you're innocent or not. They want to get a conviction.

[00:36:06] Okay.

[00:36:06] It doesn't matter if you did it.

[00:36:07] Like what Draco, it doesn't matter if you did it.

[00:36:09] It's we need somebody to be the face of this crime.

[00:36:12] Right.

[00:36:13] Exactly.

[00:36:13] The conviction rate.

[00:36:14] And so because of that, your social media posts are not safe.

[00:36:17] Your rap lyrics are not safe.

[00:36:18] The lifestyle that you're living in real life, the lifestyle that you see,

[00:36:21] you cannot talk about.

[00:36:22] And to juxtapose that with the idea that gang

[00:36:26] violence has been talked about by white people for centuries because you can go back to Shakespeare

[00:36:33] and talk about how the Romeo and Juliet branch he had me at the Shakespeare I was done. Yeah

[00:36:40] yeah because they could take they take directly out of Romeo and Juliet the story of the monsegues and the capillates and how that is basically two rival rivaling factions or whatever gangs if you will.

[00:36:51] And how they were they were doing violence too but people were beer Shakespeare. Nobody tries to criminalize white people based on the words of William Shakespeare. For you name the genre and every time you go find a white subset of people that's saying, well, that's bad for everybody.

[00:37:08] But Shakespeare can have the same type of content and it be classical literature that this man has a PhD in.

[00:37:14] So very much fascinating, very much fun to talk about, but also so tragic and I agree. I think everybody should be white in this. Yeah, that scene was so well selected as well because it's the it's

[00:37:25] the scene where Tibalt is trying to broke a piece between the Montague's and the Capilates and it ends

[00:37:32] with his with his death and just the idea there in there in the bar or the cafe they're in a dark

[00:37:39] dark place it was wonderful and just using the Shakespearean language, it was, since it's

[00:37:46] why people still do Shakespeare, although I, you know, I'd love a moratorium of five

[00:37:49] years of nobody doing any Shakespeare, because there are living writers, okay, there are

[00:37:53] living writers who should be done, living poets whose lyrical work should be done. But

[00:37:58] if that's another, that's another conversation. But we understood it in such a vibrant way because those performers understood it in a vibrant way.

[00:38:08] And they were showing us something that we need to see.

[00:38:12] It's like you don't understand.

[00:38:15] You, me, me, white people, you don't understand.

[00:38:19] And I need to be able to be told that and to shut up and listen.

[00:38:22] So I should shut up now. But just that, that small scene, I was, I

[00:38:28] thought I loved the film. When I saw that, I thought, Oh, yeah,

[00:38:32] yeah, you know, you, you know, exactly what you're doing. I

[00:38:35] can't believe this is this director's first full length

[00:38:38] work.

[00:38:39] Yeah, Martin, before we end though, I do want to say that

[00:38:42] also a lot of this is race related is basically it goes from class to race, right?

[00:38:48] But it raises not just mean white people versus black people, black people to internalize these things about rappers and about these people from these neighborhoods and they perpetuate those things that DA.

[00:39:00] In the Draco case was black.

[00:39:02] Black women and in the 90s are very own vice president right now.

[00:39:06] Was it was one of the faces of the let's lock these people up these super criminals.

[00:39:10] We we have a system where it says these people are bad and then the the the people

[00:39:18] in charge say okay well my job is to make sure the bad people don't get out and that the bad

[00:39:22] people are rappers who wrap about bad things

[00:39:26] or people who say F the police or whatever,

[00:39:29] then those are the people that the popular culture

[00:39:30] is going to start to depict as our criminals.

[00:39:33] And so it's not just white people.

[00:39:35] It starts there.

[00:39:37] It starts to make it.

[00:39:38] Yeah, it's a white supremacy culture, right?

[00:39:41] And so it starts there and then it has black people's in.

[00:39:44] Yeah, I too don't wanna get robbed. We saw Chris Rock making a fool

[00:39:47] of himself. Oh, yeah. You know, but I can't even be mad at Chris Rock because I

[00:39:53] have to be mad at a large portion of people in the 90s. Black folks included,

[00:39:57] you know, a lot of the people who were the voices of the people who were the

[00:39:59] voices of the politics. Exactly. Yeah, saying that, oh, I'm not like these NWA people.

[00:40:07] I'm different.

[00:40:08] So I can't, you know, so I got to keep them away from me.

[00:40:11] And all that stuff just trickles down and it all ends up

[00:40:14] with a pressing the same group of people.

[00:40:17] And the documentary does not ignore that.

[00:40:20] And that's why I think that's like all the things I really have no complaints.

[00:40:25] Yeah. I completely agree. Absolutely. So if you listeners think that we've talked about the

[00:40:31] whole film, we have not. We've just spent 40 minutes talking about 10% of the film.

[00:40:39] And it's only an hour and 36 minutes. I mean, it's thrilling how much and what this film does. I can't

[00:40:47] speak highly enough about it. Exactly. And then at the end, we just you just get the simple

[00:40:55] the note that only 1% of cases go to trial in the US with many, many young black men agreeing to

[00:41:01] plea deals for crimes that they did not commit rather than risk heavier sentences at trial.

[00:41:06] Like, yeah, this is a big thing.

[00:41:08] I mean, again, we are focused on the black community and how it greatly affects us, but

[00:41:17] that is widely known for basically all poor people.

[00:41:20] Like a lot of people who cannot afford a good attorney who just would rather

[00:41:26] take the plea deal that that happens a lot. Well, Kimber asks that that attorney who goes through

[00:41:32] the mock trial with him, he says, well, why do I have to have a public defender? Why can't I have

[00:41:36] you? She just looks him in the eye and she said, do you have $100,000 for me to start looking at your case? Right, which is just amazing.

[00:41:46] So for further properties, you can read the book

[00:41:50] Rap on Trial, Race, Lyrics, and Guilt in America

[00:41:54] by Eric Milson and Andrea Dennis with a Ford by Killer Mike.

[00:41:58] This is what the book that I think this was like

[00:42:01] loosely based off of.

[00:42:04] Okay, let's get to our ratings. Chappelle, how many magnifying glasses are you

[00:42:07] going to rate as we speak rap music on trial out of a possible five?

[00:42:13] I got to give it five, y'all. I enjoy it so much. I have no complaints.

[00:42:17] Honestly, I think that, like you said, they explained it to me like I

[00:42:21] was five, but it wasn't in a condescending way. It gave me, it gave me a simple answer to all the questions and it followed up my train of thought

[00:42:29] throughout the entire thing. Well, what about this? Okay. Well, let's address that. Well,

[00:42:32] what about this? Okay. Let's address that too. Well, I don't know if that's really believable.

[00:42:36] Well, here's two people who can speak to that happen in the them. And then here's another

[00:42:40] case that can show you happening to them. And you say, well, why is this happening? And I said,

[00:42:43] well, let's take you back 100.

[00:42:45] Oh, so you talk about it.

[00:42:47] And I'm thinking, wow, that was exactly

[00:42:49] what I needed right now.

[00:42:50] I want to just happen everywhere else.

[00:42:51] Well, let's take it to London.

[00:42:52] You know, it's all like, wow.

[00:42:54] So I don't know.

[00:42:56] I definitely, I've already recommended to other people.

[00:42:58] I'm going to keep recommending it.

[00:43:00] And I'm probably going to watch it again.

[00:43:01] Because it was very entertaining,

[00:43:02] but it's also informative.

[00:43:03] I really enjoyed it. Yeah, I completely agree.

[00:43:06] Sarah, how many magnifying glasses are you going to rate

[00:43:09] the documentary out of a possible five?

[00:43:11] Five.

[00:43:13] It was five before we started talking about it now.

[00:43:15] I want to give it several.

[00:43:16] You know, I want to give it seven.

[00:43:18] It's, I will definitely watch it again.

[00:43:22] I may watch it again, you know, almost immediately. It's

[00:43:26] something I'm going to recommend. And all the way through. I mean, Canva was the perfect

[00:43:32] choice. He was really good. He's really good. He's not exactly the narrator, but he is like,

[00:43:38] he's not even the every man. But he is us navigating and negotiating through this world

[00:43:44] and asking questions like very straightforward, simple questions that people are afraid to but he is us navigating and negotiating through this world

[00:43:45] and asking questions like very straightforward,

[00:43:48] simple questions that people are afraid to ask.

[00:43:50] And the one question he asks all the musicians,

[00:43:52] all the artists, why?

[00:43:54] Why do you do it?

[00:43:56] Tell me about your work and why you do it.

[00:43:59] And it's such a simple question.

[00:44:01] And I just, I was thrilled, thrilled.

[00:44:04] What about you, Mary?

[00:44:05] Of course, definitely a five.

[00:44:07] I think that the pacing of it was great.

[00:44:12] Like we said, it was only an hour and 36 minutes

[00:44:14] like Chappelle so wonderfully put.

[00:44:16] Like the way that the storyboarding and the storyline went,

[00:44:20] it was so easy to follow while also covering just massive issues within the country in a way that was so easily digestible.

[00:44:31] It's honestly a masterpiece because we've gotten on this program and talked about documentaries where half the time we're like, what is the perspective?

[00:44:42] What is the director's perspective here?

[00:44:43] What are you trying to tell me? What are you trying to tell me?

[00:44:45] What are you trying to teach me?

[00:44:46] And we talk about ways that we could fix documentaries

[00:44:50] and stuff like this.

[00:44:51] This one was just honestly perfect in its execution.

[00:44:56] And shout out to the director.

[00:44:58] I know, Chappelle, you covered Genius, the Kanye trilogy,

[00:45:03] nothing but Netflix a few years ago. So I

[00:45:06] I'm not I'm kind of not surprised that it's almost this good because that was pretty good. Genius was pretty good as well

[00:45:12] Yeah, and you know

[00:45:14] Genius was a well genius was good in a different way because they had real-time footage and that's something we don't get a lot of

[00:45:20] In documentaries where it's like raw footage of everything that they're talking about. Like, you know, we don't have to get somebody like, you know, Randall talking

[00:45:27] heads to tell us what was going on in genius. You really, like we really had, hey, these

[00:45:32] are the recordings that we have. And let's like, let's just let them play essentially,

[00:45:36] you know, yeah. And then they talk about what we're seeing play out. But there wasn't a

[00:45:41] lot of, okay, man on the street, go talk to somebody or let's go do an interview with somebody who was there. Everything that happened was right

[00:45:47] in front of me. So yeah, if this was the same person, I think this person is just, I can't

[00:45:52] say enough about he was the he was the editor of that. Yeah, he's gone on to make this and

[00:45:58] he's yeah. Yeah, this is J.M. Harper. So because of that fact,

[00:46:05] I should remember that Kanye was paying

[00:46:08] the him to to to take all that footage.

[00:46:12] He's only the editor because he had to put all that footage together.

[00:46:16] Remember? Yeah.

[00:46:17] That was already it was it was raw footage.

[00:46:18] Yeah.

[00:46:19] No, no, no, no, no, no, you know, man.

[00:46:21] So now this man is two for two for me.

[00:46:23] I'll be happy to check out whatever comes out next.

[00:46:26] I'll be looking for you.

[00:46:27] Yeah, shout out to Jam Harper.

[00:46:29] So, yeah, again, fives across the board.

[00:46:32] I cannot recommend this documentary enough.

[00:46:36] I think that you just learn just so many things,

[00:46:40] so many nuances.

[00:46:41] And again, I think it also stems at the end, it's like, and if they can do this to us, what can they do to you?

[00:46:49] You know what I'm saying?

[00:46:50] It, you know, so that was amazing.

[00:46:55] Let's do some recommendations.

[00:46:56] Chappelle, do you have anything to recommend to our listeners?

[00:46:59] Again, it could be anything.

[00:47:01] Doesn't have to be true crime.

[00:47:03] No, not right now as far as like crime goes, but as far as like not crime.

[00:47:10] You know, listen, you could always check out what I'm talking about on recap.

[00:47:16] Not the shamelessly plug myself and jump the gun, but yeah, I recommend whatever

[00:47:20] she fellas talk about. It's a great time. recapkeepback.com check it out.

[00:47:24] Seconded.

[00:47:28] Do you have anything to recommend to our listeners?

[00:47:31] Yes, I do. Thank you for asking. I'd like to promote the work of official crime scene

[00:47:37] third chair Sarah Debunting and her working partner and past and future guest of this show, Eve Beatty,

[00:47:46] they're reigniting The Docket,

[00:47:48] which is their podcast on true crime,

[00:47:50] interesting cases and the discourse.

[00:47:53] And while they're fantastic on true crime

[00:47:56] and interesting cases,

[00:47:57] they are stratospherically amazing on the discourse

[00:48:02] to something that Mary and I are always very interested in.

[00:48:04] So they're gonna start again this week on Thursday. So in a couple of days, if you're listening to this when it drops with an episode on cases, they'd like to see adapted.

[00:48:09] And then next week, it'll be an a episode. So get your questions in for them.

[00:48:14] I also have a book recommendation from Kimberly and Katie from a date with Dateline also passed in future guests.

[00:48:21] The book is Lay Them to Rest by Laura Norton. Its

[00:48:30] subtitle is On the Road with the Cold Case Investigators who identify the

[00:48:34] nameless Kimberly and Katie discussed the book with the author on their

[00:48:38] Patreon and supercast last week and I will immediately be reading this book

[00:48:43] because of the subject matter and

[00:48:45] because of their recommendation. How about you, Mari?

[00:48:50] Recommendation slash heads up for what we'll review in a few weeks. Can I tell you a secret?

[00:48:56] A lot of people, I've been seeing a lot of good things about it. A lot of people have

[00:48:59] been suggesting it to me. So I started watching a little bit. We will be covering it in the

[00:49:05] next few weeks. So just, you know, because sometimes people will reach out, oh, watch

[00:49:09] this, watch this. And it's, it's coming. So I guess that's what I just want to tell people.

[00:49:14] We will be covering, can I tell you a secret? It's a stalker case on Netflix. So if you

[00:49:20] guys want to watch that and then catch it, catch us talking about it in a few weeks, we'll let you know when it's coming up.

[00:49:28] At crime scene, we are eager to hear your feedback

[00:49:30] and suggestions for future episodes.

[00:49:32] You can follow crime scene on Twitter at crime scene R.H.P.

[00:49:36] That's crime S E E N R H A P

[00:49:39] or email us at crime scene R.H A P at gmail.com.

[00:49:44] We're on TikTok at crime.scene and other social media at crime scene RTP at gmail.com. We're on TikTok at crime.scene

[00:49:46] and other social media at crime scene podcast.

[00:49:49] And please remember to subscribe to our feed

[00:49:52] rob has a website.com slash crime feed.

[00:49:55] It makes a big difference.

[00:49:58] Shabell, what do you got going on

[00:49:59] and where can the people find you?

[00:50:01] Recapkickback.com.

[00:50:03] That's what you can find me, man. Uh, Mari's been joining me every week to just, I mean, to help kick off my new podcast and I cannot thank you enough.

[00:50:11] Mari, we just wrapped up our Black History Month of top five random genres of media for Black folks.

[00:50:18] And so Black TV and Black movies and we ranked them every week.

[00:50:22] It was a great time. We got a be a copa coming soon with our guest keeks.

[00:50:27] We got a lot of stuff coming on RecapK back.

[00:50:29] Just checking out, it's gonna be a good time.

[00:50:31] Abbott Elementary on RecapK back as well,

[00:50:33] not to forget that.

[00:50:34] By weekly coverage of Abbott Elementary season three

[00:50:37] with Gia Worthy, but yeah, over on RJP,

[00:50:40] we got Below Deck coverage with Sasha Joseph every week

[00:50:44] on YouTube.

[00:50:45] We go live.

[00:50:46] Check that out if you're a fan of below deck.

[00:50:48] I recently guessed it on the bachelor recap with Haley Strong and Amy as well.

[00:50:53] I'm joining Rob and Jenny to talk about dealing no deal island.

[00:50:57] We've been calling it Don D. But yeah, Don D with Rob and Jenny on the hit or quit podcast

[00:51:02] feed and survivor is back and so I'll be talking to Rob every week about survivor and some silly stuff over there on that show too.

[00:51:08] So check me out on a recap kickback and follow me on all social media platforms at recap kickback.

[00:51:15] There you go. Sarah what are you got going on? Well Chappelle hasn't left anything for anyone

[00:51:20] else so maybe a couple of things. You can follow me at Sarah Carradine on all the things.

[00:51:26] Over on Silent Podcasts I'm covering Australian survivor Titans versus rebels.

[00:51:31] The recap of the wild fifth week is up and my guest is Omar Zahir from survivor 42.

[00:51:38] And starting this week your Aussie queens Annabelle Fiddler and I will be getting you ready for season

[00:51:42] two of Alone Australia by

[00:51:45] recapping the first season and breaking down the cast. And I had the pleasure of talking

[00:51:50] through all the Oscar Best Picture nominees with Mike and Julie and joining us was Eden Porter,

[00:51:56] cinema chain manager and original Titan from the current Australian survivor.

[00:52:01] Season The Snake is eating its tail. Yes.

[00:52:06] Barry, what about you?

[00:52:10] Of course, me and Matt Scott every week, we bring you the Wrestling Rehappap podcast where we break down the wacky, weird,

[00:52:15] wonderful world of wrestling.

[00:52:17] You can check us out by going to Rob has a website.com slash

[00:52:20] wrestling feed in order to subscribe.

[00:52:22] And then you can go and follow us on our new YouTube page wrestling, we're half up YouTube page, go and subscribe there. Also other than

[00:52:32] the recap kickback with Chappelle, me and Matt did do we were in the semi final rounds of three

[00:52:39] count trivia over on the four sides of the ring podcast. You can find that on their YouTube

[00:52:45] page on four sides of the ring. We went toe to toe with the championship culture guys

[00:52:51] who we've had both of those amazing podcasts on as guests for wrestling. So it was a nail

[00:52:58] by turn. So definitely go check that out as soon as you can. It was so fun. Me and Matt doing wrestling trivia against other podcasts.

[00:53:08] It's something you do not want to miss.

[00:53:10] It was amazing.

[00:53:13] And other than that, you can find me on Twitter

[00:53:16] at Mari Talks Too Much.

[00:53:17] That's too like the number two.

[00:53:21] Sarah, what are we watching next week?

[00:53:24] Next time on crime scene, we're covering the truth about Jim with, hey, look at that.

[00:53:29] I am as a here. Watch it on Max and send us your comments and questions.

[00:53:37] Thanks to Chappelle for joining us. We'll from America for the theme music and the whole RTP team behind the scenes. Until next time, Kase closed.