Crime Seen | Episode 85: JFK: One Day in America

[00:00:00] A.B.C. Thursdays Firefighters were family. Station 19 is back for its final and hottest season yet.

[00:00:12] The subject has explosive chemicals with fiery romances and Andy is finally in charge.

[00:00:20] I'm going to be the best damn captain the station has ever seen. Station 19 all new Thursdays 10 9th Central on ABC and stream on Hulu

[00:00:30] On April 5th you must be very careful Margaret. It's the girl witnessed the birth of Times World's dot-on evil things of evil.

[00:00:38] It's all for you no don't.

[00:00:41] The first old men I believe girl is to be the mother. Mother of what?

[00:00:46] It's the most terrifying six six six six. It's the mother of the devil.

[00:00:50] The movie of the year. The first old man we did our under 1790 middle without parent only in theaters

[00:00:59] or go fifth.

[00:01:00] Hello it is Ryan and we could all use an extra bright spot in our day couldn't we?

[00:01:04] Just to make up for things like sitting in traffic during the dishes, counting your steps you know

[00:01:09] all the mundane stuff that is why I'm such a big fan of Chamba Casino.

[00:01:13] Chamba Casino has all your favorite social casino style games that you can play for free anytime anywhere with daily bonuses.

[00:01:20] That should brighten your day low actually a lot so sign up now at chamba casino dot com.

[00:01:25] That's chamba casino dot com.

[00:01:28] No purchase necessary daily report for him to buy lost in terms of conditions 18 plus with lucky land slots

[00:01:32] you can get lucky just about anywhere.

[00:01:35] Dearly beloved we are gathered here today to has anyone seen the bride and groom?

[00:01:39] Sorry sorry we're here we were getting lucky in the limo when we lost track of time.

[00:01:44] No lucky lane casino with cash prizes that add up quicker than a guest registry.

[00:01:49] In that case I pronounce you lucky.

[00:01:52] Play for free at lucky land slots dot com.

[00:01:54] Daily bonuses are waiting no purchase necessary boy were prohibited by lot 18 plus terms and conditions apply see website for details.

[00:02:01] Hey guys it is Ryan I'm not sure if you know this about me but I'm a bit of a fun fanatic one I can't write.

[00:02:06] I like to work but I like fun too.

[00:02:08] It's a thing and now the truth is out there I can tell you about my favorite place to have fun.

[00:02:13] Chamba Casino they have hundreds of social casino style games to choose from with new games released each week.

[00:02:18] You can play for free anytime anywhere and each day brings a new chance to collect daily bonuses.

[00:02:24] So join me in the fun sign up now chamba casino dot com.

[00:02:48] Hello everyone I'm Sarah Caradine podcasting from aora Sydney.

[00:03:01] I'm Marie fourth and this is crime scene the true crime review podcast where we get to the heart of how true crime stories are told.

[00:03:09] You can get this fine program along with all the fantastic reality TV content by subscribing to Rob has a website dot com slash wrap ups feed that's our HP UPS.

[00:03:22] We'd love it if you were subscribed to our feed as well please go to rap has a website dot com slash crime feed so you'll get your true crime on Tuesdays if you already subscribe.

[00:03:32] Thank you very much Sarah what are we watch this week?

[00:03:36] We watched JFK one day in America this was directed by Ella Wright who also directed the real crown inside the House of Windsor and it comes from national geographic who produced 9 11 one day in America in 2021.

[00:03:53] 2021 was the 20th anniversary of the attacks on the World Trade Center and the Pentagon and this year marks the 60th anniversary of the assassination of president Kennedy.

[00:04:06] And we are delighted to welcome back to the scene documentarian and author Dylan Rief who last joined us to break down the cookie and wonderful document series telemarketers in episode 71 in August hey Dylan.

[00:04:19] I thank you I've just strolled down from the grassy no I'm excited to talk about this.

[00:04:24] I see have you folded your umbrella.

[00:04:26] I have and yes right at the exact moment.

[00:04:32] Well we're glad you're back.

[00:04:34] Thanks and thanks for bringing it to my attention because I wouldn't I don't think I would have sought this out otherwise so that was appreciate that.

[00:04:44] Yes I must say marry you the one that brought this to the table.

[00:04:49] I almost certainly would not have seen it had you not so yeah I'm intrigued to get to our discussion.

[00:04:57] But first to the crimes on 22nd of November 1963 president John F Kennedy was shot by an assassin while riding in an open top car through Dealy Plaza in Dallas, Texas.

[00:05:11] He was 46 and the youngest president of the United States ever elected.

[00:05:16] Also in the car was governor John Connelly who was seriously wounded officer JD Tippet of the Dallas PD was killed 45 minutes later.

[00:05:28] 24 year old former marine Lee Harvey Oswald was arrested for these crimes and two days later, not club owner Jack Ruby shot and killed Oswald in the basement of Dallas police headquarters.

[00:05:41] Ruby was found guilty and sentenced to death. He appealed and was granted a new trial but became ill and died in January 1967 at Parkland hospital.

[00:05:51] The same place Kennedy Connelly and Oswald had been taken after being shot.

[00:05:57] The president's commission on the assassination of president Kennedy which we know more generally as the Warren commission concluded in 1964 that president Kennedy was assassinated by Lee Harvey Oswald.

[00:06:09] He had as well acted entirely alone. It also concluded that Jack Ruby also acted alone and that's all there is to say about the asset of JFK.

[00:06:23] Yeah I never heard anyone mention anything else.

[00:06:26] Yeah it's settled and done.

[00:06:29] I guess over.

[00:06:32] Interestingly, this one day in America set up.

[00:06:36] I'm sort of intrigued to watch the 9-11-1 as well.

[00:06:38] What this one on JFK does is simply talk to people

[00:06:45] who were there.

[00:06:46] So it's eye witnesses 60 years later,

[00:06:49] just probably just in time because everybody's quite old

[00:06:53] and asks them what was your experience?

[00:06:57] What did you see on the day?

[00:06:59] So Dylan, get a start of what did you think

[00:07:01] generally about this documentary series,

[00:07:03] this three-part documentary series?

[00:07:06] I mean, the thing that struck me almost immediately

[00:07:09] was how visually satisfying it was.

[00:07:13] I've seen quite a lot of JFK footage over the years

[00:07:17] and you know, you're quite used to seeing

[00:07:18] the same old archive footage,

[00:07:20] which is mostly newsreel footage

[00:07:23] that was presumably transferred to videotape

[00:07:26] sometime in the 90s or you know,

[00:07:28] it hasn't come fresh off the film.

[00:07:30] It looks a bit crap to be honest, you know?

[00:07:33] And this one, they've gone to an incredible effort,

[00:07:37] I think, to really restore and find footage

[00:07:42] that we haven't seen before.

[00:07:43] A lot of it was quite amazing at times

[00:07:46] to be like, I can't believe there's footage of that.

[00:07:48] Like wow, this footage is really interesting and insightful.

[00:07:53] You'd almost feel like it was, you know, being directed.

[00:07:58] And I don't mean that in a conspiratorial way,

[00:08:00] but it just there was, there was, you know.

[00:08:02] Yeah, yeah, there was these insights and moments

[00:08:06] that it was almost surprising to learn that they existed.

[00:08:10] On the other hand, what the film is not

[00:08:13] is any sort of investigative narrative.

[00:08:17] Like if you're moderately familiar with the story of JFK

[00:08:22] and the assassination around, or there's assassination,

[00:08:26] you're not going to learn anything new particularly.

[00:08:29] There's a little bit of insight, obviously,

[00:08:30] from some of the individuals who are speaking

[00:08:32] about their experiences and emotions and perceptions.

[00:08:36] But you know, it's pretty straightforward kind

[00:08:40] of telling of what took place juxtaposed

[00:08:46] with very good footage that illustrates those events

[00:08:51] and some fairly perfunctory interview about the events

[00:08:57] and it's a satisfying watch.

[00:09:00] It was, you know, that's my overall impressions.

[00:09:04] And Mari, what about you?

[00:09:05] What are your overall thoughts?

[00:09:08] I think it was like a beautifully constructed,

[00:09:13] very well-produced boring piece of media.

[00:09:18] Like it was good.

[00:09:20] It was great for what it was.

[00:09:23] But like Dylan said, if you have any knowledge

[00:09:27] surrounding the assassination of JFK

[00:09:31] or the multitude of conspiracy theories and stuff like that,

[00:09:35] you dissonant for you.

[00:09:37] You know what I'm saying?

[00:09:38] Like this is not for somebody who, like Dylan said,

[00:09:40] wants to learn more, who wants to know the forensic side

[00:09:44] of it.

[00:09:44] We know I love that and that was not here.

[00:09:47] Nothing like that.

[00:09:49] Which isn't bad because what we got was actually very good

[00:09:53] because seeing all of this archival footage

[00:09:56] and seeing all of it, like Dylan said,

[00:09:58] it's like I can't believe we had this much footage

[00:10:01] from that day and all of this first-hand account

[00:10:04] and stuff like that.

[00:10:05] I think it was breathtaking.

[00:10:07] Like it was almost like being transported back to that day

[00:10:11] and if you're transported back to that day,

[00:10:12] you don't know what's going on.

[00:10:13] So I do like that that's kind of how it plays out.

[00:10:19] As almost like from the view of an average citizen,

[00:10:24] we get that we get the view of reporters.

[00:10:25] We get the view of the average citizen.

[00:10:27] We get the view of the Secret Service

[00:10:31] and it was mass chaos for a long time.

[00:10:36] Which makes sense.

[00:10:37] Like seeing the president killed right in front of you

[00:10:40] and not knowing for a while what actually happened

[00:10:44] and at this point, 60 years plus not knowing what happened.

[00:10:50] It's really a time traveling piece

[00:10:54] but it has so much sad piano in the background.

[00:10:57] I really, I fell asleep so many times.

[00:11:00] I'm sorry to rewind.

[00:11:02] Again, it could be my state,

[00:11:03] but I was just like, it was good.

[00:11:05] Like it was good for what it was

[00:11:07] but I mean, oh my gosh, I was tired.

[00:11:10] It tries to, it really tries to pull on your heart shingles

[00:11:14] and sorry, that's another thing.

[00:11:16] I thought it did a good job of humanizing the story

[00:11:19] because if you have heard the story as many times

[00:11:24] if you have watched that film as many times as you have

[00:11:27] you get very desensitized to it

[00:11:29] and you can get wrapped up to it,

[00:11:30] wrapped up into the why of it all

[00:11:33] but not really feel the weight of a sitting president

[00:11:37] being murdered or being in his wife's shoes

[00:11:39] as she's right there with him

[00:11:41] or being in the frightened shoes of all the doll's people

[00:11:45] who effectively had a spree killer on the loose, you know.

[00:11:50] When they didn't know who killed him.

[00:11:52] So it's like I like that the human element

[00:11:55] was very much in the forefront of this to say the least

[00:11:59] but yeah, if you're even remotely into all the conspiracies

[00:12:04] and everything behind it

[00:12:05] this is probably not gonna be for you.

[00:12:07] What do you think Sarah?

[00:12:09] I liked this very much.

[00:12:12] I liked the rather stately pace.

[00:12:18] I know we like things that get on with it

[00:12:21] but once you key into the fact

[00:12:22] it is gonna be quite stately

[00:12:25] I liked the person on the street footage

[00:12:29] which I'd never seen before, it news interviews

[00:12:32] where a shocked news person has to ask a shocked citizen

[00:12:37] what is this like for you

[00:12:39] and people in that time were not ready with a sound bite.

[00:12:44] They were affected and unable to express themselves

[00:12:50] which I found very moving.

[00:12:52] The other thing is I have never seen all the footage

[00:12:55] inside the Dallas police headquarters

[00:13:00] with Lee Harvey Oswald being serrated

[00:13:04] up and down packed corridors, absolutely packed.

[00:13:09] And it's I've never really questioned

[00:13:12] how Jack Ruby got close enough to shoot him

[00:13:15] but you think anybody could anybody

[00:13:18] or any two days that he was paraded up and down

[00:13:23] and Murray I was reminded of La Maha Vieta

[00:13:26] when she gave a press conference when she was arrested.

[00:13:30] This is the serial killer in Mexico

[00:13:33] having an unfiltered press conference.

[00:13:36] They gave Lee Harvey Oswald to the press.

[00:13:40] I didn't know that.

[00:13:41] So I've seen a lot of them all public

[00:13:46] coming down the stairs of Air Force One

[00:13:49] and as soon as she is wearing her raspberry suits

[00:13:51] you think okay here we are, this is the day

[00:13:54] we know that outfit really well

[00:13:56] we know John F. Kennedy Jr.

[00:13:58] saluting in his little blue coat

[00:14:01] but we know those very public things

[00:14:03] but these, no it's not private

[00:14:06] because they were news footage

[00:14:08] but this stuff that I hadn't seen

[00:14:09] I found absolutely fascinating.

[00:14:12] And then I think that the people

[00:14:13] that they found to talk to

[00:14:14] they found that the Secret Service agents

[00:14:17] who were protecting Jacqueline

[00:14:20] Sid Davis the Washington correspondent

[00:14:22] I found him very interesting

[00:14:24] I could have listened to him forever

[00:14:27] and then even this sort of really minor

[00:14:30] apparently eyewitnesses Gail and Bill Newman

[00:14:34] you think oh they just went to look

[00:14:37] and then we see them on the news footage

[00:14:40] each of them with their bodies

[00:14:41] over the bodies of their young children

[00:14:44] at life bodies of their young children

[00:14:46] to protect them and you think

[00:14:47] they had this moment in history

[00:14:51] we didn't know their name

[00:14:52] that it really tells us anything

[00:14:54] except what happened to them that day

[00:14:56] but this idea of people carrying stories

[00:14:59] we see many of the talking heads 60 years later

[00:15:04] being unable to speak about

[00:15:05] having tears in their eyes

[00:15:08] talking about not at great length

[00:15:11] but talking about the effect that this event had on them

[00:15:15] or more, more not talking about the effect

[00:15:18] this had on them and leaving us to draw their conclusions

[00:15:21] so I liked that we didn't go into any investigation

[00:15:26] we didn't really get very much about

[00:15:29] how the police found Oswald except we did speak

[00:15:32] to the shoe shop owner

[00:15:33] who I didn't know anything about

[00:15:35] who said yeah he went into the theater

[00:15:38] so yeah

[00:15:39] exactly there were things like

[00:15:41] so seeing the Newman

[00:15:43] like being able to see they'll show the footage

[00:15:46] the way that this was put together

[00:15:48] really was so interesting

[00:15:49] and it definitely had different take on a lot of the JFK properties

[00:15:52] that I've seen

[00:15:54] so the way that they would do it

[00:15:56] how they would show a photo of somebody back in 1963

[00:16:01] with their name and then they would fade out to them today

[00:16:04] I love that and going back and forth

[00:16:07] you know what I'm saying because the Newman

[00:16:09] if you've watched this footage from every angle

[00:16:12] you've seen the Newman's in all of the footage

[00:16:15] so even have them there just to say like yeah

[00:16:17] we were there and we covered our children

[00:16:19] was still kind of like wow

[00:16:21] like oddly like connecting

[00:16:24] and then the part where Kennedy actually gets assassinated

[00:16:29] almost is kind of like an afterthought of it all

[00:16:32] I've seen the Zapruder footage several times

[00:16:36] backwards and forwards

[00:16:36] like colorized you colorized whatever

[00:16:39] you know what I'm saying

[00:16:39] like we've seen it dozens of time

[00:16:42] and the way that they did it

[00:16:44] where they showed us the footage

[00:16:46] without the shot audio

[00:16:48] I found very fascinating

[00:16:50] Dylan did you have any thoughts about that?

[00:16:53] Yeah I mean it's interesting

[00:16:54] because that's how it was recorded of course

[00:16:55] there was no sound

[00:16:58] it's an eight millimeter film

[00:16:59] it didn't have sound

[00:17:01] and in fact not only that

[00:17:03] there are no good recordings

[00:17:07] of what to place in Dealy Paz

[00:17:09] or audio wise

[00:17:10] there's some stuff that was captured on a police radio

[00:17:13] but that's sort of nondescript and not very good

[00:17:17] so you know it's good

[00:17:19] that they've been sort of true to the footage

[00:17:22] in that moment

[00:17:22] and it was interesting

[00:17:23] because I was thinking about it when I watched it

[00:17:24] there's an entire day missing in the film

[00:17:26] we hear nothing about what happened on November 23rd

[00:17:30] which is obviously the day after

[00:17:32] and I was when I watched it

[00:17:33] I was like oh that's weird

[00:17:35] and then I think about it afterwards

[00:17:36] and it's because essentially if there wasn't

[00:17:40] some sort of film

[00:17:42] or some cases photographs

[00:17:44] to kind of illustrate the point

[00:17:45] they were talking about

[00:17:46] it didn't exist in the film

[00:17:47] in the same way

[00:17:49] that in the immediate aftermath of the shooting

[00:17:51] when I forget his name

[00:17:54] officer Baker I think it was

[00:17:56] the Dallas police officer

[00:17:58] who immediately went into the

[00:18:00] the schoolbook depository

[00:18:01] and encountered Oswald

[00:18:06] that's not mentioned in the document read all

[00:18:09] because of course

[00:18:10] he didn't have a new serial camera with him

[00:18:12] there was no photographers

[00:18:15] in the book depository there

[00:18:16] so that part of the story

[00:18:18] because it can't be illustrated

[00:18:20] in this kind of found footage observed way

[00:18:24] just isn't part of it

[00:18:25] and I guess

[00:18:27] and thinking about it

[00:18:27] when I started watching it

[00:18:28] the first episode

[00:18:30] I'm like okay

[00:18:31] I guess we'll just do the setup

[00:18:33] and then we're probably gonna touch on what happened

[00:18:34] and then we're probably gonna touch on some

[00:18:35] of the controversy or questions around it

[00:18:39] because it felt like

[00:18:41] the elephant in the room

[00:18:42] or on the grassy knoll

[00:18:44] to not be talking about

[00:18:45] the conspiracy theory

[00:18:46] because JFK's assassination

[00:18:50] is as close to a mainstream conspiracy theory

[00:18:52] as you get

[00:18:53] like some survey

[00:18:55] not that long ago

[00:18:56] maybe eight or 10 years ago

[00:18:58] had belief

[00:19:00] that there was more than one shooter

[00:19:01] or there was a coordinated effort

[00:19:03] it like 65% of the US population

[00:19:06] wow

[00:19:07] it's a majority of people don't believe

[00:19:10] the quiet, unquite official story

[00:19:11] so it felt like that would have to be addressed

[00:19:14] and it's not

[00:19:15] and I think

[00:19:16] it felt weird to me when I was watching it

[00:19:18] and I think when I think back on it now

[00:19:21] it's fine

[00:19:22] it's just not what the film was

[00:19:24] and I think it's very easy to criticize

[00:19:27] a film or a television show

[00:19:29] for not being what you thought it should be

[00:19:31] but it's fear

[00:19:33] it's fear to expect that sometimes

[00:19:34] your expectations of what a thing is

[00:19:36] and what they are

[00:19:37] and not the same

[00:19:38] and it's not necessarily fear to criticize it

[00:19:39] based on your expectations

[00:19:41] so

[00:19:42] in that context

[00:19:44] it was great

[00:19:45] and I think back on it now

[00:19:47] I really like what they did with it

[00:19:48] but it is still slightly

[00:19:51] it's slightly weird

[00:19:53] I guess

[00:19:53] no, it just feels like discordant

[00:19:56] almost to talk about JFK

[00:19:58] without talking about

[00:20:00] the conspiracy around it

[00:20:03] which has become

[00:20:04] bigger

[00:20:05] and it's drinkably tied to it

[00:20:07] yeah

[00:20:08] I think one of the strengths to me

[00:20:09] of the film is that we bring our knowledge

[00:20:13] and here we are in Australia

[00:20:15] and New Zealand

[00:20:16] are on a podcast

[00:20:18] talking about a very American event

[00:20:21] it is known all over the world

[00:20:24] we lost a prime minister

[00:20:26] called Harold Holton

[00:20:27] nobody knows his name

[00:20:28] he disappeared

[00:20:29] I know his name

[00:20:30] you know his name

[00:20:31] we never found him

[00:20:33] but

[00:20:33] Harold Holton Memorial Swimming Pool

[00:20:35] is there not?

[00:20:35] There is indeed

[00:20:37] he went swimming in the sea

[00:20:38] and never came back

[00:20:40] Japanese magic subs

[00:20:41] anyway

[00:20:43] it's so part

[00:20:44] I mean, I was alive then

[00:20:46] and living in California

[00:20:47] obviously I was very young

[00:20:49] thank you everybody

[00:20:51] extremely young

[00:20:52] but it would have been something

[00:20:54] that affected my parents

[00:20:56] it's not something

[00:20:56] that I think we ever spoke about

[00:21:00] but it's something that people

[00:21:01] born 40, 50 years after the events

[00:21:04] know about

[00:21:05] know something about

[00:21:07] have certainly seen the images

[00:21:09] certainly

[00:21:11] seen some of the footage that we do see

[00:21:14] but that's how much of it we haven't seen

[00:21:16] what I liked was seeing

[00:21:18] the footage I have seen in a different way

[00:21:21] because we spoke to Clint Hill

[00:21:24] whose codename was dazzle

[00:21:26] and Paul Landis

[00:21:28] whose codename was debut

[00:21:29] because he was a very young man

[00:21:31] at the time

[00:21:33] because we have spoken to them now

[00:21:35] when we go back to

[00:21:37] footage of them coming off Air Force One

[00:21:39] instead of looking at what the camera

[00:21:41] at the time wanted us to look at

[00:21:45] JFK and Jackie

[00:21:47] we are looking around them

[00:21:49] we are looking around the major players

[00:21:51] to see these

[00:21:53] I don't want to call them minor

[00:21:54] but these other people who were there

[00:21:58] who are now able to talk to us about their experience

[00:22:01] and I found that really fascinating

[00:22:02] I think something that makes me look

[00:22:04] at something familiar in a different way

[00:22:08] yeah it's a great experience

[00:22:10] yeah absolutely

[00:22:11] I think that the three parts they made sense

[00:22:14] they weren't

[00:22:16] it's nothing felt unnecessary to me

[00:22:19] like I don't know if I'm coming off harsh about the property

[00:22:24] well I called it boring and underwhelming

[00:22:26] but I sort of get the idea you quite like

[00:22:27] yes but not exactly

[00:22:29] like

[00:22:31] you can be bored and underwhelmed

[00:22:33] by something and still

[00:22:34] I still don't like

[00:22:35] it's not like I think I wasted like

[00:22:37] three hours in my life

[00:22:38] when we've had property

[00:22:42] so I want to refund on my time

[00:22:47] it was very in line with almost like a national geographic product

[00:22:50] you know what I'm saying

[00:22:52] and I thought like the first episode

[00:22:55] being about like the setup

[00:22:57] about them on the way to

[00:22:59] you know on the way to Dallas

[00:23:00] how the tour is going

[00:23:02] the whole first episode

[00:23:03] I was like this feels like this is more about Jackie Kennedy

[00:23:06] because we're talking to the her two secret service people

[00:23:09] and I wasn't like

[00:23:11] mad about it but again I wasn't expecting it

[00:23:13] I guess like most of this property can be summed up to like

[00:23:17] I just I guess this was not what I was expecting

[00:23:20] but not in a bad way

[00:23:23] because I loved all the footage

[00:23:25] I love hearing like kind of like the back story of like

[00:23:28] Jackie wasn't even going to go to that breakfast

[00:23:30] but she did but you know they asked her to go

[00:23:33] and stuff like that

[00:23:34] and then it culminates in

[00:23:37] again the assassination which

[00:23:39] again I'm not focusing on that I thought was

[00:23:42] interesting because

[00:23:45] you're like what? Isn't that why we're here?

[00:23:47] But again I had never heard this

[00:23:50] a brutal footage without a

[00:23:54] manipulated shot sound effect

[00:23:55] so I don't think at least

[00:23:59] I've watched so much stuff but um so like

[00:24:02] or at least an indication of when the you know

[00:24:05] you know how like it's like in the shot with one

[00:24:07] here shot two

[00:24:08] you know

[00:24:10] you count the shots

[00:24:11] count the shots yeah

[00:24:13] exactly um

[00:24:15] so for the footage to kind of just play through

[00:24:17] no stopping no no no focusing

[00:24:20] so they don't return to it it's just once you miss it

[00:24:23] that's it

[00:24:24] exactly

[00:24:25] placed for that

[00:24:26] yeah yeah we know he got shot with C

[00:24:28] exactly very it was kind of refreshing in a

[00:24:31] weird way um and then you go then episode two is

[00:24:34] the man hunt for Lee Harvey Oswald

[00:24:36] and now that Dylan points out though I

[00:24:38] guess I didn't realize the one day missing thing

[00:24:42] but that now makes sense because I even went back

[00:24:45] and rewatched episode two and I was thought

[00:24:47] and I thought maybe it was because again I kind

[00:24:49] of fell asleep on that one and then I went

[00:24:51] back and you know so technically I've watched

[00:24:53] episode two almost three times um but now

[00:24:57] Dylan pointed out it could have just been

[00:24:59] the disjointment of them and not having that

[00:25:02] said footage to to really um

[00:25:05] round out that that section

[00:25:07] and then finally seeing all of the footage

[00:25:10] of um you know episode three being titled Revenge

[00:25:13] where Lee Harvey Oswald is killed and that

[00:25:16] I mean that perfect footage

[00:25:19] of Jack Ruby killing Lee Harvey Oswald

[00:25:22] is it still astounds me to this day

[00:25:24] all of those the still photos in the video

[00:25:27] itself just so crisp and clear it's

[00:25:30] it's there it's unnerving in a way that it is

[00:25:34] seen somebody be like murdered on film but it's

[00:25:37] just like they had so many cameras there

[00:25:40] like so much just so much footage and I

[00:25:43] honestly maybe Dylan knows where was

[00:25:45] wasn't Lee Harvey was he not wearing a bullet

[00:25:48] proof vest or no I don't think he was also

[00:25:51] was it it was a regular vest because I

[00:25:54] always thought he was safe he's in the police

[00:25:57] parking garage they've theoretically only got

[00:26:00] to credit to people in there but I was so

[00:26:02] angry as wandered down check who's a friend

[00:26:06] a friend of the police

[00:26:11] hey it's Kaylee Cuoco for price line ready to go

[00:26:13] to your happy place for a happy price well

[00:26:15] why didn't you say so just download the

[00:26:17] price line app right now and save up a

[00:26:19] 60% on hotels so whether it's cousin

[00:26:21] Kevin's kuzu concert in Kansas City go

[00:26:24] Kevin or Becky's bachelor at Bash and

[00:26:26] Bermuda you never have to miss a trip

[00:26:28] ever again so download the price line app

[00:26:30] today your savings are waiting

[00:26:32] go to your happy place for a happy price

[00:26:37] go to your happy price price line

[00:26:41] hey it's Rob hope you're enjoying all the

[00:26:43] podcasts we got a lot for you this week

[00:26:46] including our amazing race coverage with

[00:26:50] Jess and Mike you got to see what Mike

[00:26:52] Bloom was wearing this week Shannon

[00:26:55] Gus had all of the Australian survivor

[00:26:57] finale coverage she talked to Mike

[00:27:00] Bloom and Nick i Danza and I even jumped

[00:27:02] in with Shannon for a quick check in

[00:27:04] with my thoughts on the finale and

[00:27:06] Taren and I talked about how Mr.

[00:27:08] Beast is about to change the game

[00:27:11] a little reality TV news that we dropped

[00:27:13] in the feed this week right here on RHA

[00:27:16] P we know reality TV

[00:27:19] with lucky landslots you can get lucky

[00:27:22] just about anywhere

[00:27:23] dearly beloved we are gathered here today

[00:27:25] to has anyone seen the bride and groom

[00:27:28] sorry sorry we're here we were getting lucky

[00:27:31] in the limo when we lost track of time

[00:27:33] no lucky lane casino with cash prizes that add up

[00:27:36] quicker than a guest registry

[00:27:37] in that case i pronounce you lucky

[00:27:40] thanks for free at luckylandslots.com

[00:27:42] daily bonuses are waiting no purchase

[00:27:45] necessary boy were prohibited by law 18 plus

[00:27:47] service and conditions apply see website for

[00:27:49] details

[00:27:50] with lucky landslots you can get lucky

[00:27:53] just about anywhere dearly beloved we are

[00:27:55] gathered here today to has anyone seen the bride

[00:27:58] and groom sorry sorry we're here we were

[00:28:01] getting lucky in the limo when we lost track of time

[00:28:03] no lucky lane casino with cash prizes that add up

[00:28:06] quicker than a guest registry

[00:28:08] when lucky side pronounce you lucky

[00:28:11] thanks for free at luckylandslots.com

[00:28:13] daily bonuses are waiting no purchase

[00:28:15] necessary boy were prohibited by law 18 plus

[00:28:18] terms and conditions apply see website for details

[00:28:21] lucky land casino asking people what's the weirdest

[00:28:23] place you've gotten lucky lucky in line at the

[00:28:26] deli i guess i'd my dentist office more than once

[00:28:30] actually do i have to say yes you do

[00:28:32] in the car before my kids pta meeting really

[00:28:36] yes excuse me what's the weirdest place you've

[00:28:38] gotten lucky i never win in tell well there you

[00:28:41] have it you can get lucky anywhere playing

[00:28:43] at luckylandslots.com play for free right now are you

[00:28:46] feeling lucky no purchase necessary boy

[00:28:48] were prohibited by law 18 plus terms and conditions apply

[00:28:50] see website for details so don't get us started on

[00:28:54] on episode two a lot of this is corridors and

[00:28:57] and yeah have the oswald and one of the things

[00:28:59] that i never realized was that you can see jack

[00:29:02] Ruby in the film of that day as well

[00:29:05] we started episode two with fuel phrasia who

[00:29:09] his name i had not heard before

[00:29:12] he's now 79 he was a co-worker of lee have the

[00:29:15] oswald he drove oswald to work that day

[00:29:19] with a packet of curtains right in the back seat

[00:29:23] he lived near oswald and gave him so oswald stayed

[00:29:26] in a suburb outside of delis and commuted

[00:29:31] in at the beginning so he lived with his wife

[00:29:36] in someone else's house a friend's house that kind of

[00:29:39] stayed there together and he would commute in on a

[00:29:42] Monday morning and stay in like a you know

[00:29:46] rented accommodation for the week and then go back

[00:29:49] to the suburb for the weekend on the Friday so he'd go with

[00:29:52] fuel phrasia usually he'd come in on the Monday

[00:29:54] with him and go back on the Friday fuel would commute back

[00:29:57] and forth each day but oswald stayed in delis

[00:30:00] for the week so he was taking allegedly

[00:30:03] curtain rods to you know pretty opposite

[00:30:06] apartment and yeah that's that's that's

[00:30:10] that's the beginning of well good yeah i love

[00:30:14] be all saying i'm a time traveler because he says he

[00:30:16] thinks about it every day because in the second

[00:30:19] episode we find out he was taken in for questioning

[00:30:23] at the at the police department yeah i think

[00:30:28] that second episode like i know the story of jfk

[00:30:32] sess nation reasonably well and i knew

[00:30:35] there were media all around the police station

[00:30:37] pretty much from the moment it took place and certainly from the

[00:30:40] moment um oswald was brought in but to a level i don't think

[00:30:46] i can't think of any other like even high profile crime

[00:30:51] situation that i've seen where the the press

[00:30:54] is just in the corridors the police station

[00:30:56] and not only that they're broadcasting live but there's live

[00:30:58] television cameras in there and i don't know if you know a lot

[00:31:02] about television cameras in the 19 sixties but they were not small

[00:31:05] they were not on these things were not on a shoulder they were built on a

[00:31:08] on a big pedestal there was you know it was like

[00:31:11] you know two guys taking three or four trips to bring

[00:31:14] the thing into the building and then a massive cable running out to a

[00:31:18] you know truck outside like wow the fact that it was

[00:31:21] live broadcast from inside the police station there was

[00:31:25] um it's just okay that uncountable number of press

[00:31:29] in there was it's just amazing and to see the chaos of it

[00:31:33] in this documentary is is and i guess that's what this documentary brings

[00:31:38] that is quite unique because i've seen clips of i've seen clips of oswald's

[00:31:43] weird little press conference thing i've seen clips of him being pushed

[00:31:47] through the corridors through the throng of press

[00:31:50] i've obviously seen clips of you know him being

[00:31:54] killed by jack ruby i've seen all of those things independently what i've never

[00:31:58] seen is the is the offcuts around the outside of all of that the stuff that

[00:32:02] wasn't those key moments and that's what this documentary brings and

[00:32:05] that's i guess that's fundamentally what this documentary brings across the

[00:32:08] entire three episodes is that it's all of the other footage

[00:32:14] that exists around the moments that we've seen before

[00:32:17] or it's so much of the other footage that exists like

[00:32:20] stuff that when you're making a normal documentary about JFK sure

[00:32:24] it might turn up in your archival requests but you're just going to chuck

[00:32:27] it to the side because it's not moving the story along or whatever it needs

[00:32:30] to do you know you're just keeping keeping the functional

[00:32:33] important super key moments you're playing there's a pro-der film

[00:32:37] five six times you're you know you just little bits and pieces because

[00:32:41] you're mostly sitting in an interview and and stuff like that and this one's

[00:32:44] kind of the opposite we're mostly sitting in this

[00:32:47] what we call actuality footage i suppose or

[00:32:49] you know yeah and and we're just popping into interviews here and there

[00:32:53] and it's um yeah and i guess episode two is kind of

[00:32:57] even more amazing for that because it's it's almost

[00:33:02] mundane and what's happening at that point like it's procedural it's

[00:33:06] it's he's being arraigned and he's being you know questioned and it's

[00:33:10] just media hanging around on the corridors and it's

[00:33:14] just a bit of stuff it's not the things you'd normally expect to see in a

[00:33:17] documentary so that's interesting.

[00:33:21] Dylan how'd you heard the um the uh audio from the citizen

[00:33:25] calling in from uh JD Tippitz radio?

[00:33:28] I had yeah and that was and of course

[00:33:33] that plays out i can't remember what the what the footage was under

[00:33:35] that but obviously there was no newsreel camera

[00:33:38] right you know there so yeah a blank screen with white

[00:33:44] with white text yeah and i guess that's what they

[00:33:47] made the choice to have to make right because

[00:33:49] it wasn't it's not a documentary that has any recreations and it's not a

[00:33:53] documentary that's using footage and kind of like a generic

[00:33:56] b-roll fashion so if you want to see something if you want to hear

[00:33:59] something that you can't see it's what we're doing.

[00:34:03] It almost comes out of like nowhere because if i remember correctly we're

[00:34:07] following the police as they are as they find the

[00:34:10] rifle in the book depository or something like that you enjoy the handling

[00:34:14] the rifle without gloves.

[00:34:16] Oh yeah and just above their head.

[00:34:18] Yeah i love that and then

[00:34:20] we're going to buy the strap you know mostly

[00:34:25] and the box but mostly mostly mostly um yeah and it's

[00:34:29] kind of like where the police are like trying to investigate the case

[00:34:33] and then all of a sudden they're like oh yeah we

[00:34:35] a call came through so again the way they handle

[00:34:39] it is very interesting like Dylan said no recreation so

[00:34:43] we're getting the police you know scrambling to

[00:34:46] to find evidence and then all of a sudden they're told that one of their

[00:34:49] colleagues is killed a few well boxed

[00:34:52] way or something like that so yeah very fascinating.

[00:34:55] I got a very strong feeling which i hadn't before

[00:35:00] about the scrambling that the police and the press were doing i mean

[00:35:04] we think of the police moving into action in a regimented

[00:35:09] fashion you know whether we approve that or not

[00:35:12] but you really got especially the film inside the book depository

[00:35:15] whether they're searching and then they find this rifle it's like

[00:35:18] people are grabbing and pulling and and it feels very frantic and then we hear

[00:35:24] from Paul Landis debut.

[00:35:27] We hear that he breaks down and basically his boss comes over and says

[00:35:32] pull yourself together i mean it's an extraordinary

[00:35:35] courageous of him to actually relate that this is what happened and you can see

[00:35:39] why he left the secret service almost immediately afterwards but

[00:35:43] you know secret servicemen breaking down policemen climbing over each

[00:35:46] other you know press well we expect the press to be slightly chaotic

[00:35:52] but i really liked that non contemporary

[00:35:57] police procedure that was going on.

[00:35:59] You know something that has absolutely nothing to do with anything that i

[00:36:03] was just like oh wow like back then the police officers at least the

[00:36:08] the ones that we're seeing in the police headquarters they weren't wearing

[00:36:11] like uniforms they're wearing like suits and i was like who's the police and

[00:36:15] who's the press you know i thought i'm not kind of fascinated.

[00:36:20] At one point the police were clearly visible by the they all were

[00:36:23] matching cowboy hats.

[00:36:24] cowboy hats yes well it's Texas yeah

[00:36:29] yeah what's interesting figure

[00:36:33] you're talking about the chaos that ensued i think

[00:36:36] okay so i mean i think part of the reason you wanted to talk to me about this is

[00:36:39] because i've written a book about conspiracy theories and one of the things

[00:36:42] that while you describe and what we see here that we normally never see

[00:36:46] in coverage of something like this or in a you know

[00:36:49] a fictionalized version later on or in like a polished documentary

[00:36:54] is is that chaos right and i think what happens

[00:36:57] a lot with conspiracy thought is that people feel like things

[00:37:02] have to be operate in a certain organized and structured way

[00:37:06] that they have those kind of and i it always baffles me because i've you know

[00:37:10] lived a certain amount of life and i'm like no shits chaotic all the time

[00:37:14] like what's going of course you know and so

[00:37:18] you see chaos and the outcomes of chaos in fact you usually don't see the chaos of course

[00:37:23] you just see the outcomes of the chaos you're like what do you mean the

[00:37:25] the the gun the evidence was was moved between the time this photo was taken and this other photo

[00:37:31] was taken it's like yeah it was a chaotic nightmare in there

[00:37:35] but you don't see that so what you do is you see those two things these two photos that are slightly

[00:37:39] you know a little bit apart and time and how a couple of things are a little different between them

[00:37:43] and you're like aha it's conspiracy you're like no it's just chaos um and it's the same i think with

[00:37:48] a lot of this stuff right you yeah i think it's it's just it's fascinating seeing these moments

[00:37:56] that don't usually get illustrated because they do kind of um show just how everything

[00:38:01] simultaneously they show everything is super imperfect how how people are chaotic how things go

[00:38:06] wrong all the time what they also show is just how how coincidence has worked right just how like

[00:38:14] how how many sort of fascinating coins like the fact that we've got these footage of these people

[00:38:19] doing different things at different times and you know are they just happen to be a camera pointed

[00:38:23] at the right time you know like we talk about seeing footage of people that we've seen photographs

[00:38:28] of what how did you happen well isn't it amazing that this these people who were critical you know

[00:38:32] who were favored later that they just happen to be photo you say yeah there's lots of stuff is

[00:38:37] happening and we get a filtered view of it and i think what's interesting about this is it's

[00:38:42] unfiltering a little bit yes i think i you're absolutely right the i have seen the photo but there's

[00:38:49] still photographs of marina oswald li have the oswald's wife holding the baby and coming through

[00:38:56] a throng of men i've seen a photograph but we actually saw like a a lengthy uh film of it where she

[00:39:05] is protecting the baby's head trying to get through the man like there's no comment made about it

[00:39:11] but you get a very different feeling when you see her her confusion she doesn't speak english

[00:39:18] she's carrying a very small baby and there's this incredible throng of the men around her

[00:39:24] most all men and the cameras on her and this product this project lets that play i imagine for

[00:39:33] the length of time they have the footage and you get a completely different feeling of the

[00:39:38] sensation of of that person and then we get contemporary commentary from their friend Ruth

[00:39:44] pain who was not a fan of leaves i don't think she was not although she was who they were staying

[00:39:51] on the job right yeah true so is there anything else we want to say before we give our ratings and then

[00:39:59] Dylan marina would like to give you the floor to talk some more general but conspiracies and why

[00:40:03] people like them and what they get out of holding these ideas so Dylan how many magnifying glasses

[00:40:10] are you going to rate JFK one day in america out of a possible five i want to give it four magnifying

[00:40:17] glasses um i think it's incredibly good at executing on what i presume the vision was i think it's

[00:40:27] if you judge it based on what you probably thought you were about to watch then you might land

[00:40:33] with a fewer number of magnifying glasses but once you get to the end and take a moment to consider

[00:40:40] what it was they were actually trying to do and how well they've executed it i think it's a solid four

[00:40:45] thank you and marie how many magnifying glasses will you give this stock you series

[00:40:50] yeah i was going back and forth between a four and a three point five in my head so i'm like

[00:40:56] let me get it at three point seven five um if breaking the ratings i am um because i agree like i

[00:41:04] said everything about it like what it presented was was so beautifully done and so

[00:41:11] in done in a way that i hadn't seen before and accessed a footage that i hadn't seen before our

[00:41:17] necessarily didn't really remember um and for what it was it was really good um the slow

[00:41:24] paceness of it can hurt you know because you know when the business of

[00:41:32] watching through crime and how we've seen it evolved and how sensationalized it could be

[00:41:38] and so if you're used to the sensationalized version of this story of the

[00:41:42] JFK's estimation then this isn't for you i i did like it like i said i did like it i just like

[00:41:48] i'm not jumping up and down about it i'm not going to go back and watch it again um but i would

[00:41:55] suggest people watch it if you want a if you want to see what it was like that day i feel like

[00:42:02] i was transported to that day in Dallas in November so i i do like that aspect of it a lot so

[00:42:11] that's all i give it three point seven five what you Sarah?

[00:42:15] i liked it very much uh i think i'm going to give it a four point five

[00:42:21] uh i liked the pace i liked that it just did this one thing what do we have footage of and

[00:42:29] who are the people who are still alive who can talk about it it's almost like it understands

[00:42:34] itself as part of a suite of documents there are books there are television shows there are

[00:42:40] uh you know motion pictures there's so much material there's people's

[00:42:45] memory of it or memory of what they think they know about it and it just says we're going to show

[00:42:51] you what we have and we're going to talk to the people who are still alive that agreed to talk

[00:42:56] to us and i liked that just as a side note i love looking at all the fashion in the

[00:43:02] in the streets there and gloves and glasses and earrings and the men and suits and all of that so

[00:43:07] i liked that very much but i think transported is a great word mario really transported me to a

[00:43:12] different time i was almost relieved that i didn't get any investigation and i didn't get any

[00:43:17] conspiracy theories and we didn't even go to the war and commission the last thing we had was

[00:43:22] the funeral and that was that was enough and i was certainly very pleased to hear from some of

[00:43:29] these people as i mentioned sir davis the washington correspondent in particular who i mean he's

[00:43:34] a reporter so his way of presenting information is really good but he also has a has an emotional

[00:43:42] connection to that day so four and a half for me Dylan conspiracy theories what do people get out

[00:43:48] of holding them and who is right and who who killed jave k yeah well who killed jave k is an

[00:43:54] interesting one because when you messaged me about this i said that i just recently started

[00:44:00] listening to a podcast about the same question called who killed Kennedy it's by rob reiner who

[00:44:07] you know famous film maker made a spinal tap and many other things and also saw that o' brine who's

[00:44:17] you know well-renowned journalist and presenter they put this document together called

[00:44:24] who killed Kennedy and it's very much an argument in favor of a conspiracy claim

[00:44:30] um yeah no it differently you know it's only as we record this i think they've only released four

[00:44:36] or maybe five episodes and as far as i've listened so far we're up to the point where it's clearly

[00:44:41] the CIA behind it all and and that Lee Oswald was absolutely a CIA asset so you know that's

[00:44:52] that's an interesting perspective and like i say it's the most mainstream conspiracy theory

[00:44:57] but fundamentally and i'm not a psychologist so all i can talk about is you know what

[00:45:06] i've sort of gathered and synthesized from the various psychologists i have spoken to about

[00:45:11] this stuff but fundamentally conspiracy theory usually boils down to this idea of um we don't like

[00:45:19] uh don't cope well with the idea that things are out of our control that the world is chaos that

[00:45:23] everything is you know nothing we do really can affect much beyond ourselves so sometimes it's reassuring

[00:45:33] to believe that things that seem um terrible or awful uh you know controlled in some way that

[00:45:43] that someone's behind them and then therefore i suppose if you extend that idea that if you can find

[00:45:47] the them involved it's a capital T um that you can stop them and maybe the bad things will stop

[00:45:54] happening so that's interesting i think and that's kind of fundamentally what conspiracy usually

[00:46:02] boils down to and then specific you know people believe lots of different conspiracy theories for

[00:46:06] lots of different reasons and you know one particular thing might have caught your attention and been

[00:46:12] and been like a thing that drew you into it a space that then is a lot more shall we say pro conspiracy

[00:46:18] um you know once you're freaked out about the idea of vaccines um maybe you end up in a space

[00:46:23] where they're also talking about how i don't know um about how the unions try to control the world

[00:46:29] you know that kind of that kind of stuff but yeah it's so powerful the union is so powerful

[00:46:35] yeah and what's what's really interesting in listening to um this podcast that i mentioned is

[00:46:42] obviously they're going to highlight the things that support the idea that they have

[00:46:50] right so we hear a lot about um for example that Lee Oswald maybe wasn't a very good marine

[00:46:57] and then was it weird that he ended up in this space in Japan where he had access to classified

[00:47:01] information in the YouTube spy program and then you know he got discharged from the reans on a

[00:47:07] compassionate grounds just because his mother was unwell but then didn't go in spend much time with

[00:47:12] his mother instead went to Russia to try and defect um was that suspicious was he actually working for

[00:47:17] the CIA as a false defector you know and there's lots of information that they pluck out

[00:47:25] that supports that idea and of course this is what i was saying about how when we don't see the whole

[00:47:31] picture we instead focus on little bits and they all fall into place to see what we want and I think

[00:47:38] that's true in both directions right because the Warren commission report is almost certainly

[00:47:44] quite not perfect um there is absolutely maybe deliberately so yeah well i mean you know

[00:47:54] basic stuff like um the FBI field office in Dallas was aware of Oswald from months before this

[00:48:01] assassination he had they had spoken to people in his life he had visited the FBI and told them to

[00:48:08] piss off basically um so you know so obviously there's a desire to cover up their failings

[00:48:16] and I think this is you know same with 911 in some respects as well sure you know the official

[00:48:21] report of 911 almost certainly has lots of faults but most of those faults probably come down to

[00:48:26] ask covering more than hiding a massive conspiracy that it's thousands of people um so I don't

[00:48:34] know there's a really interesting there's a one thing that i find the thing that the thing that's

[00:48:38] always struck me as being the biggest nail in the coffin against the idea of Oswald being a

[00:48:46] patsy or not acting alone is that as far as i've ever seen any evidence of first of all

[00:48:54] him getting the job at the book depository was kind of just good luck for chew it us it was about

[00:49:02] a month beforehand and someone just happened to mention that there was this job available they knew

[00:49:06] someone you know so he didn't seek the job out he didn't go and try and find a job there

[00:49:13] someone told him about this job that was available and he went and applied for it and was hired

[00:49:17] about a month beforehand and the other thing is that until roughly two days beforehand no one knew

[00:49:24] that the motorcade was going to pass by there anyway in fact it wasn't even the most obvious

[00:49:28] but if you knew what the agenda was where they were going to go ahead of time it still wasn't

[00:49:32] particularly obvious that they were going to pass by but obviously if the CIA was involved maybe

[00:49:37] you know make it go that way but the fact that he didn't engineer his job there is always struck me

[00:49:43] as a big sticking point in the idea that it was a conspiracy that he was a part of yeah this

[00:49:51] fascinating i'm going to call it a documentary it kind of sells itself as just being like a 3D

[00:49:57] recreation of some of the aspects of the of the JFK assassination but it's actually

[00:50:01] it's an hour and a half documentary on youtube called the Kennedy assassination inside the book

[00:50:06] to poetry it's by this creator called limino and it's it's incredibly detailed an amazing sort of

[00:50:14] 3D reconstructions reconstructing time showing documents pulling together testimony and evidence

[00:50:22] it's really incredible as kind of an example of the counterpoint to a conspiracy theory kind of

[00:50:29] putting together like here is all the things that support the idea that what took place was

[00:50:34] roughly what it appeared to be so i'll flick you a link to that and you can do with as you please

[00:50:40] but it's definitely put it in the show notes definitely yeah but then my question if

[00:50:45] if it is a conspiracy by the CIA why did the CIA want Kennedy dead oh there's plenty of reasons

[00:50:52] they have lots of reasons he was actively planning to dismantle them and strip away some of their

[00:50:59] their power um uh john of kine uh john of kineedy had a lot of enemies going into this uh visit to

[00:51:08] texas because he he the reason why a lot of people admired him as a president was because he was

[00:51:15] standing up against what we felt like were systemic forces that were keeping you know the american

[00:51:21] people down so going against the CIA's you know wish is going up against the mob and claiming that

[00:51:27] the mob in the mafia was some was the most detrimental to the uh like domestic life of you know

[00:51:35] people in the u.s which then made the FBI dislike him because the FBI was like no it's communism not

[00:51:43] the mob um when jf k was like uh communism is not really a big big enough threat

[00:51:50] at home you know we clearly know it was abroad um so like he he went into it uh he he in that trip

[00:51:59] had a lot of enemies like far and wide for some of these the changes he was trying to also the

[00:52:05] civil rights movement he was big proponent yes of the civil rights movement a lot of people didn't

[00:52:09] agree with that um Dylan am I missing anything no that's that's pretty much it i mean he was also

[00:52:15] his approach to the cold war at that time was was um more of a peacemaking approach to perhaps some

[00:52:22] of the apparatus yeah pawks would have appreciated um he was regularly in direct contact with uh

[00:52:31] with christian so you know yes uh uh lots of reasons that people might not have liked him being in charge

[00:52:39] yeah here's his my thing about any conspiracy is that if more than one person is involved hence the name

[00:52:47] conspiracy every single person involved has to keep their mouth shut for the rest of their lives

[00:52:53] yeah um i mean so look it's a little bit easier when you look at something like

[00:52:59] you know a conspiracy around jfk where the idea is that the cia who are an organization

[00:53:06] who are very good at doing clandestine things it's fundamentally their whole you know

[00:53:15] thing that's what they do um and you know maybe they would have the resources and what's more all

[00:53:21] the people involved who are on their side already who are you know drinking from the cia

[00:53:28] cool aid would be there and able to execute something like this it gets harder when you look at

[00:53:34] a conspiracy like um 9-11 where you've got you know you've got i mean depending on watch parts of

[00:53:39] 9-11 conspiracy theory you believe but you've got you know maybe you've got five fighters involved

[00:53:43] because they lied about what happened it will trade scene a seven maybe you've got um

[00:53:48] like aircraft in an airline people involved because they lied about uh what happened to the airliners

[00:53:54] you know all sorts of things you start to or and if this controlled demolition you've got you

[00:53:58] know hundreds or thousands of explosive technicians who had to rig these buildings to explode so

[00:54:04] that one definitely like you're talking way too many people um who aren't necessarily ideologically

[00:54:10] in the same place as you but you know i guess a JFK assassination could happen with a smaller number

[00:54:17] of people who are already ideologically in the same place which is maybe easier but still we

[00:54:23] haven't really heard any solid no real strong whistleblower has come out though I know off

[00:54:28] and time time's running out yeah well but yeah I guess it is maybe i think someone said there's like a

[00:54:35] there's like a specific date at which a bunch of um potentially JFK related secret documents

[00:54:41] become an unsecret but it's still quite a way off maybe that's the time we'll finally know

[00:54:47] yeah uh for me I would I would say I I always suggest last podcast on left when I can but I think

[00:54:54] they did a really good series on the JFK assassination where they covered um Liya Raviyar as well

[00:55:03] upbringing his fights through Russia and everything that Dylan talked about

[00:55:08] through the kidney assassination through the Warren commission all the way through a lot of the

[00:55:12] conspiracy theory so uh because it was it was like a five-part uh series that they did

[00:55:19] on it starting at episode 400 is the episode 400 to episode 405 it's it's a great in-depth well-researched

[00:55:29] piece of media and one of the places where I think I I agree with kind of what they kind of concluded

[00:55:37] on what could have happened and basically just this a series of coincidences that led to

[00:55:44] JFK being in that spot at that time in Liya Raviyar as well pulling the trigger and then

[00:55:51] whatever happened with the third shot uh go you know go actually that reminds me so it's two

[00:55:58] things one is conspiracy theorists sometimes like to um sort of

[00:56:03] sarcastically refer to non-conspiracy theorist as coincidence theorists which I love

[00:56:08] oh I love that it's so good I'm one of those the other thing was I hadn't thought about until I

[00:56:14] watched episode one of this documentary series was if you wanted to assassinate JFK in Dallas

[00:56:24] there were many better opportunities to do so like you wouldn't choose if if that was your plan as

[00:56:30] and you and you couldn't fail right you can't fuck this up because you know if you screwed up and

[00:56:37] the plan comes out then that's much worse it's the worst outcome so you can't screw it up so you don't

[00:56:43] choose like a car going 30 miles an hour down a street from a weird vantage point you know you

[00:56:49] choose when he's doing a breakfast as you know we're standing at a podium war or when he's meeting the

[00:56:57] crowd at the airport you know so yeah like every other president that had been assassinated before him

[00:57:05] you know a handshake in the shot to the to belly is what was previously done to the three presidents

[00:57:12] I believe who were assassinated before him so at this point in history of like a president dying

[00:57:18] from like a long range rifle wasn't something that was in the conscience of like the American people

[00:57:26] you know so yeah there's like don't say sorry didn't mean don't interrupt you there were much in your

[00:57:31] way even for us just watching the footage and going oh because it's very interesting how our

[00:57:40] views on you know keeping people safe and and what is possible have completely changed because

[00:57:45] you would just never see that kind of access that the public had to him yeah yeah absolutely

[00:57:51] yeah and for me the one of the reasons why I like definitely okay let's talk about this part

[00:57:56] property was because when I was in when I was going to school for forensic science our intro to

[00:58:02] forensic science class each each time we had a different module they had a study a famous case I think

[00:58:08] I've talked about how like for John Benne Ramsey we for our handwriting module we had to do

[00:58:14] we had to follow the John Benne Ramsey case and for our ballistics module we had to actually do the JFK

[00:58:21] like the magic bullet and we had to basically do our own research and come down on our side of like

[00:58:27] was it a magic bullet is could one shot have done all of this and um it was some of the

[00:58:34] was like some of my favorite research to do I saw like a history channel I can't even remember

[00:58:39] I wanted to look at look it up for this podcast but of course I can find it a history channel did

[00:58:45] a recreation of like a marksman doing the shot and all that and they recreated everything about

[00:58:51] the bullet and in the whole reason why everybody gets magical so wrong is because they had the

[00:58:56] seating of the president and and the governor wrong to begin with yeah and I love that aspect of it all

[00:59:04] so that was definitely one of the reasons why I wanted to definitely cover this and then it's not

[00:59:09] wasn't even it so it's fine but there's just so many avenues um with the JFK assassination and it's

[00:59:18] almost like slide a slide of hand Dylan it's like let's focus on the magic bullet you know let's focus

[00:59:23] on this bullet how did this bullet do all of this when that's probably not the bullet we should be

[00:59:27] worried about yeah or just like or just like maybe they weren't sitting where you thought they were

[00:59:31] oh okay now it works now there's a straight line trajectory that goes through all of those things

[00:59:35] oh okay yeah he's leaning forward then it works and he's leaning forward and sitting a little

[00:59:41] further towards the center of the car then oh now it works yes all right let's move on to our

[00:59:50] recommendations Dylan what do you have to recommend to our listeners can I give you two

[00:59:55] of course yeah I'm gonna give you two actually can I give you fifth no I'm gonna give you 15 time

[01:00:01] but my finger might stride towards the stop button as fine I will I will lose my train of thought um

[01:00:07] so I got two one is um Mr. organ by my friend and previous collaborator David Farrier so he's

[01:00:14] the guy I made tickled with and he has made another film called Mr. organ which is simultaneously a

[01:00:20] documentary and a horror film in my opinion it is a documentary but you'll understand why it's

[01:00:26] a horror film if you watch it um available for places you know on places where you

[01:00:31] reentend by films apparently um and the other one is a series on I think it's Netflix in most of

[01:00:38] the world but HBO in the States which is last stop Larama yes which is one of those just fantastic

[01:00:47] documentaries where you're like wow these people were in the right place and had the right access

[01:00:51] and this is a story I cannot believe as it's unfolding we've had that recommendation from a few

[01:00:58] of our listeners so they'll be pleased Dylan that you agree with them oh I could talk about it for no

[01:01:04] I won't say that because then you'll make come back into it so come back into talk about it yeah sure

[01:01:08] I can talk about it for hours yes um Mari what about you what do you have to recommend okay before I

[01:01:15] get to my recommendation I forgot that I did also want to recommend um unexplained season

[01:01:21] six episode five strange stories of the president um it just came out almost three weeks ago

[01:01:30] and JFK's brain going missing is one of the stories on that so again if you want a little bit more

[01:01:38] of the conspiracy slash cover up a side of it that's something else you can you can check out too

[01:01:44] but for my actual recommendations I first want to recommend I watched a big vape the rise

[01:01:50] and fall of jewel on Netflix it was I believe it was a three part series if I remember correctly

[01:01:56] um you know three or four maybe four can't remember but because I watched this straight actually

[01:02:02] watched this straight and I didn't for no reason all other than it was pretty good and it's about

[01:02:07] um how two tech bros basically from Silicon Valley wanted to what they create what they thought

[01:02:15] was creating a smoking succession vice where they both smoked they wanted a way that they could

[01:02:21] stop smokers from smoking while also kind of getting that hit of nicotine without all of the harmful

[01:02:27] chemicals and stuff like that so they created jewel um it's a really good really good series talks

[01:02:33] about when the tech world meets like the public health sector and how they completely kind of got

[01:02:41] it wrong in so many ways because it turned into an epidemic among teenagers who were addicted to

[01:02:50] nicotine so very very good docky series I would definitely suggest on Netflix and if you've watched

[01:02:56] it let us know um send us a rating review email whatever let me know if you liked it

[01:03:03] and then I also finally got around to watching shiny happy people um the uh

[01:03:10] docky series for part part docky series about the the doggers but more importantly about the

[01:03:17] iblp and the like the the christian religious homeschooling of it all um I found that so good

[01:03:24] there I know you recommended it when it came out I found it interesting because at first I just

[01:03:29] thought it was gonna be about the doggers but I liked that it actually had more about the

[01:03:34] the um church behind them and stuff like that yeah I think that's what makes it more powerful than

[01:03:41] just yeah look at these crapes yeah I and I honestly because I never watched the show I never you

[01:03:48] know uh the only way that I was exposed to the doggers were through like the commercials in between

[01:03:53] like watching 90 day fiance and I had no clue that they weren't Mormons I just I don't know why

[01:03:57] I just automatically assumed they were Mormons for some reason but um finding more about like

[01:04:02] the quiverful stuff we've touched on that when we talked about um our father and stuff like that um

[01:04:09] and learning about the iblp which that was so interesting yeah I just I don't know it was one of

[01:04:16] those things where when it came out everybody was so talking about it and I kind of wanted to be

[01:04:20] different I'm like um yeah I'm truly yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah and I finally I finally had time and

[01:04:27] I watched it I thought it was very very interesting so again and the courage of the doggers is what

[01:04:31] stays with me yes very very much that very much that but what about you Sarah anything

[01:04:37] I recommend yes I'm going to recommend a podcast it's called The Vanishing of Vivian Cameron

[01:04:43] and it comes from the case file team it concerns a murder in the small and close knit community

[01:04:50] living on Phillip Island which is in Victoria and it's available only on Spotify but it's

[01:04:56] worth seeking out it's sort of a small story done extremely well an unhappy wife and a fair

[01:05:05] a young mistress you know you get the picture but uh yes it's it's very good and I do recommend it

[01:05:13] at crime scene we're eager to hear your feedback and suggestions for future episodes

[01:05:18] you can follow crime scene on twitter at crime scene rhap that's s e e n or email us at crime scene

[01:05:25] rhap at gmail.com we're also on tiktok at crime.scene and on instagram uh threads and facebook

[01:05:35] at crime scene podcast and please remember to subscribe to our feed by going to rob us a website

[01:05:41] dot com slash crime feed it makes a big difference yes thank you Dylan what have you got going on

[01:05:48] and where can the people find you I continue to have nothing going on that I can talk about

[01:05:54] and they can find me on social media it's a conspiracy he's it's watching he's watching something

[01:06:00] exactly I'm plotting many things um but none of them I can tell you about so for the time being

[01:06:05] I'm just Dylan Rive in most of the places where you can be Dylan Rive I'm all I'm still on the

[01:06:11] Hellside watching yes yes um spiral the drain it's quite yes actually you're you're mentioned

[01:06:17] of the of the tech bros in the dual situation just I just made me think I'm just I'm gonna I've made

[01:06:22] a note saying um tick bro hell yeah documentary series pitch yes there you go

[01:06:31] and what about you marie what have you got going on you can follow me on twitter at marie talks too much

[01:06:37] to like the number two um other than that I'm just on here with you Sarah and then we're we're

[01:06:43] wrapping up coverage of rap shit over on the connect on post your recaps that's me and shipel um

[01:06:49] covering season two of rap shit on HBO so you can check that out by going to post your recaps.com

[01:06:56] slash connect so where can the people I knew uh people can follow me on the hellside

[01:07:04] and Sarah Caradine and uh on other social media the same on post your recaps I've just wrapped up

[01:07:09] my coverage of the bachines and I'm covering the art for dodger and bringing you a full spoiler

[01:07:15] recap of the whole season of a murder at the end of the world you can also find my coverage of

[01:07:22] squid game on silent podcasts along with a compelled episode about brigh brother australia house

[01:07:31] of love which I just cannot not recommend lowly enough but you know it's very amusing to listen

[01:07:39] to me and anabelle fedela talk about it cannot not recommend I'm just

[01:07:44] think is that well you know you're not recommending no I cannot I cannot not recommend it

[01:07:50] lowly enough I can't get low enough don't watch it as what you're saying yeah I'm saying

[01:07:56] not only don't watch it but wipe any idea of it from your brain oh that's good because I

[01:08:02] literally only got that idea a few moments ago when you mentioned that by all means listen to

[01:08:08] anabelle fedela from the traders australia season do and I talk about it and cry on silent podcasts

[01:08:19] next time on crime scene we're covering a much requested property uh so please do send your

[01:08:24] requests and we do listen it's exposed the ghost train fire and I guess will be Sarah debunting

[01:08:32] you can watch it on Netflix and send us your comments and questions thanks to the delivery for

[01:08:38] joining us well from america for the theme music and the whole rhp team behind the scenes until

[01:08:44] next time case first question mark

[01:09:02] lucky land casino asking people what's the weirdest place you've gotten lucky lucky in line

[01:09:07] at the deli I guess I'd my dentist office more than once actually do I have to say yes you do in

[01:09:14] the car before my kids pta meeting really yes excuse me what's the weirdest place you've got

[01:09:20] lucky I never win in town well there you have it you can get lucky anywhere playing at lucky land

[01:09:25] slots dot com play for free right now are you feeling lucky no purchase necessary for

[01:09:29] reaper to be by law 18 plus terms and conditions apply see what's every details hello it is Ryan

[01:09:34] and we could all use an extra bright spot in our day couldn't we just to make up for things like

[01:09:38] sitting in traffic doing the dishes counting your steps you know all the mundane stuff that is why

[01:09:43] I'm such a big fan of chamba casino chamba casino has all your favorite social casino style games

[01:09:49] that you can play for free anytime anywhere with daily bonuses that's your bright new day low

[01:09:54] actually a lot so sign up now at chamba casino dot com that's chamba casino dot com

[01:10:04] landslots you can get lucky just about anywhere this is your captain speaking we've got clear runway

[01:10:11] and the weather's fine but we're just gonna circle up here a while and get lucky oh no nothing

[01:10:15] like that it's just these cash prizes add up quick so I suggest you sit back keep your tray table

[01:10:20] upright and start getting lucky play for free at luckylandslots dot com are you feeling lucky

[01:10:27] no purchase necessary void were prohibited by law 18 plus terms and conditions apply see website

[01:10:32] for details with lucky land slots you can get lucky just about anywhere

[01:10:38] dearly beloved we are gathered here today to has anyone seen the bride and groom

[01:10:43] sorry sorry we're here we were getting lucky in the limo when we lost track of time

[01:10:48] no lucky land casino with cash prizes that add up quicker than a guest registry

[01:10:52] when that case I pronounce you lucky play for free at luckylandslots dot com

[01:10:57] daily bonuses are waiting no purchase necessary void were prohibited by law 18 plus terms

[01:11:02] and conditions apply see website for details with lucky land slots you can get lucky just about

[01:11:08] anywhere dearly beloved we are gathered here today to has anyone seen the bride and groom

[01:11:14] sorry sorry we're here we were getting lucky in the limo when we lost track of time

[01:11:19] no lucky land casino with cash prizes that add up quicker than a guest registry

[01:11:23] in that case I pronounce you lucky play for free at luckylandslots dot com

[01:11:28] daily bonuses are waiting no purchase necessary void were prohibited by law 18 plus terms

[01:11:33] and conditions apply see website for details