Crime Seen | Episode 100: Crime Scene Berlin: Nightlife Killer

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[00:01:51] Hey, it's Rob. Happy Mergitory Week to all those who observe.

[00:02:07] Of course, we got the week started on RHAP with my post-game interview with Dr. Ebi Giegota

[00:02:14] and of course the Know It Alls and exit interview.

[00:02:17] But if you want even more survivor, make sure to check out James Jones who always has interesting stuff to say.

[00:02:23] He's on Why Blank Lost this week with David and Jessica and Drag Race fans.

[00:02:29] Make sure you're checking in with Leana, Beth and Amon on our Drag Race for Hap-Hop after every episode of Drag Race Season 16.

[00:02:38] That's all right here on RHAP. We know, reality TV.

[00:02:47] Hello everyone, I'm Mari Forth.

[00:03:10] I'm Sarah Carradine podcasting from Gadigal, Sydney.

[00:03:14] And this is Crime Scene, the true crime review podcast where we get to the heart of how true crime stories are told.

[00:03:19] You can get this podcast along with all the other fantastic reality TV content by subscribing to RobHazelWebsite.com.

[00:03:28] That's RobHazelWebsite.com.

[00:03:31] We'd love it if you would subscribe to our dedicated feed as well.

[00:03:38] Please go to RobHazelWebsite.com slash crime feed.

[00:03:42] You'll get your true crime on Tuesdays.

[00:03:44] If you've already subscribed, thank you so much.

[00:03:47] And just a note to our lovely listeners, they are drilling above my apartment.

[00:03:51] I'll try and cut out as much as possible.

[00:03:53] But if you hear some construction noise, please forgive us.

[00:03:56] We are but humble bedroom podcasters.

[00:04:00] Last week we watched me here after with Katie from a Date With Dateline podcast.

[00:04:06] And we had an email from our listener, Anna.

[00:04:09] She writes, I'm from Minnesota and actually grew up and still live in Maple Grove.

[00:04:15] It was a shock to hear about my city in the second episode of Me Here After.

[00:04:21] I hadn't heard about Monique's murder before, so I was glad you recommended this series.

[00:04:25] Oh, you're very welcome.

[00:04:27] I've watched the two episodes so far.

[00:04:29] The idea of having someone pretend to be the victim narrating the case seemed really weird at first.

[00:04:35] Agreed.

[00:04:36] But I thought the first two episodes were good because the cases were so compelling.

[00:04:41] It's also interesting to me that all the cases are close to Minnesota.

[00:04:45] Fargo is just over the border, and I see that episode three is also in Minnesota,

[00:04:49] while episode four takes place just over the Wisconsin border in Hudson.

[00:04:54] I'm not used to seeing so many familiar places in a true crime show.

[00:04:58] Thanks again for the podcast. I look forward to it every week. Well, thank you, Anna.

[00:05:01] And yes, I know exactly what you mean about seeing familiar places in a true crime documentary.

[00:05:06] I know Berlin quite well and I was like picking places out all through the episodes I had to go back

[00:05:12] because I would have missed the subtitles because I was going, oh, that's that place and that's that place.

[00:05:17] So yeah, maybe.

[00:05:18] That's so interesting.

[00:05:19] Yes.

[00:05:20] I didn't realize it was also close.

[00:05:22] Yes.

[00:05:23] Yeah.

[00:05:24] Thank you, Anna.

[00:05:25] Thank you so much.

[00:05:27] So, Mari, what did we watch this week?

[00:05:29] This week we watched Crime Scene Berlin Nightlife Killer from the same people who produced Crime Scene Times Square

[00:05:37] and Crime Scene The Vanishing at Cecil Hotel.

[00:05:41] This was the third property from these producers.

[00:05:44] And if it was anything like the first two, we enjoyed the first two.

[00:05:49] So very glad to talk about this one.

[00:05:52] But we can't travel to Berlin without a guest.

[00:05:56] And of course she was the second guest ever on Crime Scene and here she is for episode 100.

[00:06:01] It's Latanya Starks.

[00:06:02] Latanya, how are you?

[00:06:04] Welcome back to Crime Scene.

[00:06:06] Thank you so much for having me.

[00:06:08] I'm really excited to be here for your 100th episode.

[00:06:11] That is momentous and I am happy to be a part of it.

[00:06:14] Yeah, yes.

[00:06:16] 100 episodes down.

[00:06:18] We are glad to have you as a guest.

[00:06:20] Thank you to all of our listeners who have been supporting us all 100 episodes.

[00:06:26] And we're glad that we get to do this with all of you guys.

[00:06:30] Yes, it's hard to believe that we got to 100.

[00:06:34] We didn't get cancelled.

[00:06:36] We've done some dodgy things.

[00:06:37] Thank you for people who are day one listeners and thank you to people who just joined us.

[00:06:42] You've got a very nice back archive to look over.

[00:06:45] Latanya, we talked about shot doctor when you came to see us first in episode two.

[00:06:53] And thinking back, you know, to two years ago that was still one of my favorite properties to watch and still one of my favorite episodes.

[00:07:00] Yes.

[00:07:01] I loved being here for that.

[00:07:03] I'm very sad that they don't do that show anymore on investigation discovery or at least I haven't seen any new episodes of it.

[00:07:11] So that was one of my favorite true crime properties.

[00:07:15] Yeah, on a weekly basis.

[00:07:17] Okay, you selected it.

[00:07:19] I think a crumb to remember.

[00:07:22] Yes.

[00:07:23] But the good thing is I think it got at least like four seasons or something like that.

[00:07:27] Yeah, watch some of the ones I may have skipped over.

[00:07:32] Same.

[00:07:33] I'm glad we all got to say some words, but let's get to this property. Shall we?

[00:07:38] And let's get to this crime.

[00:07:41] Dirk P also known as the dark room killer was a nurse from Zahrbrocken in Germany who moved to Berlin when his grandmother found out he was gay.

[00:07:53] He murdered three men and attempted to murder another in a period of several months in late 2012 and early 2013.

[00:08:01] He poisoned them with a GHB also known as liquid ecstasy.

[00:08:07] His hunting ground was the gay scene in Berlin.

[00:08:10] His victims were Alexander, Nikki and Peter and a fourth victim named Miroslav who survived.

[00:08:20] Dirk was sentenced to life in prison in 2013 but completed suicide nine months after his conviction.

[00:08:27] His aunt is convinced he also poisoned his grandmother.

[00:08:31] Her body was exhumed and found to contain toxin, but he was not charged with that crime.

[00:08:39] Okay, let's open up discussions. This is a Netflix property.

[00:08:44] It was three episodes, but the three episodes were really quick very short about average about 35 to 37 minutes.

[00:08:55] Letanya, can I get your overall thoughts on this property?

[00:09:00] I actually really enjoyed this documentary quite a bit.

[00:09:04] I thought that it from the very beginning, I thought it was beautifully shot.

[00:09:10] There were just like a lot of really great cinematography type aspect elements involved in the way that the story was told.

[00:09:21] I thought it was interesting how they laid out a map of Berlin, like specifically where all the nightlife was happening and talked about the proximity of the murders.

[00:09:31] And I really found it chilling.

[00:09:34] You know, I love horror movies so I was like all down for this aspect of it.

[00:09:39] I think it was really interesting how they had the blinking video of the surveillance video in the train station where they would link the killer in and out.

[00:09:49] And then when he started narrating, I was like, Oh, is this going to work at first?

[00:09:54] But then it was just so everything that he said was just so matter of fact and it was taken from his actual statements.

[00:10:03] And that in itself was like very terrifying.

[00:10:07] So I really enjoyed that narration and them adding that level of suspense to it.

[00:10:14] So yeah, I thought that this was really good overall and they told a quite a bit of story considering that it was really just what like 90 minutes long?

[00:10:26] Yeah.

[00:10:27] Sarah, how about you, you thought

[00:10:31] I really, really liked this. And interestingly, Maria contains two of the things that we really don't like reenactments and hearing from the perpetrator.

[00:10:42] But for some reason, I think because we enjoy the other two properties in this series, I think we were, I was certainly so used to the way that they do it.

[00:10:50] The reenactments were fantastic. A lot of the times, the people actually involved are doing their own reenactments, which I think leads it, you know, very similar to which I really like.

[00:11:01] I loved the feeling of the techno clubs.

[00:11:07] It's if I may say it's exactly what it's like to be in Berlin in the nightlife.

[00:11:12] I recognize some of the places as I said, and I think you really got that feeling of cosy is not quite the right word but the barman who became very emotional about the safe space that he was in.

[00:11:24] I always felt incredibly safe in Berlin.

[00:11:27] And obviously you're not because you can get killed.

[00:11:33] So I liked the reenactments. I thought the clarity of the information was absolutely superb.

[00:11:41] We heard from each person, particularly the professionals at exactly the time that I had a question. What's this now we're going to talk to the corona.

[00:11:51] What's this now we're going to talk to the prosecutor or as I was calling her in my mind, the prosecutor because she was very cute.

[00:11:59] And the fact that we heard an actor reading from the perpetrator's statement made it much more palatable.

[00:12:08] We didn't find out that he had completed suicide till right at the end.

[00:12:12] But I was thinking I'm so glad that they chose an actor.

[00:12:17] It's his words but it's not his voice. So I, I've spoiling my ratings. I really, I just thought it was fantastic. How about you, Murray?

[00:12:27] I agree with everything you guys said. I think if you're going to do reenactments, this is the way you do them.

[00:12:32] You do them in such a way that they lend to the overall tone of the docu series.

[00:12:39] And I think they nailed it on the head with this the tone of this it's the mystery of it all. It's the dark room of it all.

[00:12:46] It's the, you don't know who he is he could be anybody. It's the safe space being invaded.

[00:12:53] And you really got that feeling.

[00:12:57] I do agree. All of the talking heads were great. I think they were well placed and well informed.

[00:13:05] The, the only thing I do think that I was kind of confused about was the order of the revelation of the victims.

[00:13:14] Now I know they revealed it in the order that the police saw. So I get that it was kind of out of order.

[00:13:22] I get some of the information was kind of like given to us as it was piecemealed.

[00:13:27] So I can't fault them for that, but I there was a minute where I was like, oh wait, what's going on?

[00:13:32] You know, but this is perfect for for all of our procedural people, all of our people who love the procedurals.

[00:13:39] This is the docu series for you.

[00:13:42] And it was quite the docu series for me because it immediately started off an episode one of entitled and mysterious death.

[00:13:52] It, it the bulk of episode one is Nikki's murder, the victim who dies in the dark room, and just the process of how them, how they find his body, how they process his body.

[00:14:06] I loved all of it because it was like, yes, walk me through the science. There was so much science. I loved it.

[00:14:14] So, so if you like procedurals, if you like hearing like the direct straight up evidence and all of it, and then falling if it barely felt like we had any like police police, you know, if it felt like just pure investigation.

[00:14:33] That's what I really liked about it. So if that's your, your, that's your jam. Then this is definitely for you.

[00:14:42] Sarah, anything that stood out in episode one for you or any of the talking heads?

[00:14:50] Yes, I particularly liked hearing from the two investigators as you say these politics I are the least police of police that we've seen.

[00:15:02] Yeah, there was a thoughtfulness and almost a personal. It's that thing of, you know, don't let your personal emotions get involved. They did. And it helped them with the case.

[00:15:12] And I thought that was really interesting. So Andreas Vozges and Monica Lashka talked about how they felt about investigating the case.

[00:15:22] So this is really unusual in I think American procedures that we see. I know that's a very generalized statement, but even the prosecutor Catherine Faust also talked about her feelings, her fear, even after he dies, her fear of this man.

[00:15:39] So there was something very elemental about his crime that I mean obviously all killings are bad. Don't kill people just please don't do it.

[00:15:50] And they're all bad and they're all sad. But there was something so insidious about these murders that I was comforted by professional people telling me they also had uneasy feelings.

[00:16:05] Dr Sven Hartwig, who's the pathologist. He also says he had an uneasy feeling, let alone the barman who was there who you know has been through all the shit that LGBTQIA plus people go through in this world and then to have his safe space invaded.

[00:16:27] Yeah, just sticking with the let's say the professionals that we met in in the first episode. I was I was really struck by them I wanted to hear from them.

[00:16:37] You can do subs or dubs. Obviously we don't dub shame here.

[00:16:42] I did it with subs because I had the time and the headspace to actually concentrate on the screen. And hearing their voices I think really amplified that connection that I felt with them here in this first episode.

[00:16:58] I definitely think the police I was is it wrong that I was like, oh they actually took this case serious from the moment it happened. I was really like, Oh, they, oh they actually investigated this like it's so sad because we we we know so often, especially in the states

[00:17:18] over here that like when any when when there's murders and stuff that include like the LGBTQ community. A lot of the times the police are like well, you know, that's what happens you know, and it feels like they dragged their feet.

[00:17:34] And these police officers, they did their job to the point where they could. They found out like once they found out Nikki's identity. Once they were able to track down his identity they found his credit cards, and because it led to his credit cards they were able to find

[00:17:52] the perpetrator was at a train station and try to use Nikki's credit card at the train station. And I was just like, Wow, this is what like real investigating looks like. And not only that, but like they talk about how Nikki's body

[00:18:13] actually traced signs of strangulation, but they're like but it doesn't seem like an instrument of strangulation happened. And how does somebody, you know, strangle and die in a room full of people.

[00:18:26] And the fact that they kept digging. I was like, again, like, what where these these policemen are like policing today. They actually were like or the pathologist and the corners there they tested.

[00:18:41] They tested Nikki's body for over like 3500 different medical substances, and they still hadn't seen anything like I don't know if people understand or realize this like when somebody dies and then there's toxicology test, toxicology tests take like six to like nine weeks come back.

[00:19:00] Because, and then when they come back, you might need to send it out again. Because you're normally just testing for certain things. And once those certain things aren't in there, and that can account for the death.

[00:19:14] Then they're like okay well what else can we test for you know I'm saying like we just don't test for it all, all like off that. It has to be some sort of clinical indication. And then if you don't know what you're looking for.

[00:19:26] You're not going to test for it so it wasn't until they. I think it wasn't until they talked to the second victim. Well, they they talked to the victim, the second victim of that night that they then thought about testing for

[00:19:41] or quote unquote liquid ecstasy which is really hard to test for in the human body unless you're looking for it. So, Latanya, what did you think about the police work and them them finding the killer, like out of train station, not only that, but he's already like assaulted

[00:20:02] another guy. Yeah. The, the fact that there is a victim who is still alive. That's able to come out and talk in this case Mira slaw. I believe his name is.

[00:20:18] That was really interesting because that's not something that you get very often in in crime normally all the victims are dead and buried by the time anything is being done, you know, done on the case.

[00:20:34] So to have someone who actually live through an attempted murder. And not only that but like to have been dosed with what he was dosed with and the levels that he was dosed with and to still have a memory of what happened that night is a miracle.

[00:20:53] Yeah.

[00:20:55] So, he was just, I just found him to be incredibly sympathetic. Like, he would, he was just living his life and trying to get home after a night of partying and hanging out and and did something that a lot of us would do, not me because I'm an introvert.

[00:21:19] Befriending someone, you know, on a train platform and having a conversation and, and you know then exchanging drinks is kind of like what really did it. I agree with both of you that the police work in this was impeccable.

[00:21:33] I was also surprised, Mari, that they took this case so seriously, and that they as quickly as they did like I made a note of when they said they finally put things out to the public to try to, you know, once they had the surveillance video and a picture of the perpetrator to try to get an idea from

[00:21:54] the public of who this person might be, because so many of these cases in America just go swept under the rug. And you never hear about them at all, especially not in hindsight and in retrospect where they've been solved in this way.

[00:22:09] I kind of found myself amazed by how many components of true crime. This case had, I mean, everything it had dating apps. It had killer nurse.

[00:22:22] Right.

[00:22:25] It had police that were actually doing their job. It had the LGBTQ plus community, like it was very Trixie and Katia in my explanation of it but like, I was just really surprised at like how many boxes this check for me and my like true crime watching

[00:22:47] like obsession list yeah.

[00:22:49] Yeah.

[00:22:50] I mean it was it was extraordinary. It was almost scripted because the first victim they know of Nikki, obviously they once they know it's Nikki they can check his credit card.

[00:23:02] They see that a that it was used after the death that it was used to try and get a ticket a train ticket to Zabra Khan.

[00:23:12] And it was declined. So they went that far. Now they go further, and they look at who who else bought a ticket to Zabra Khan around the same time.

[00:23:22] This is what leads to Miroslav I mean this is scripted. This is what police in a scripted show to.

[00:23:29] So they find that an hour later, a ticket is bought with a credit card. That's how they find Miroslav Miroslav confirms what he does know he ended up in hospital.

[00:23:42] And from that they find the the surveillance video and Miroslav says yes that's me and that's him. I mean extraordinary it's within.

[00:23:53] It seemed to be within days.

[00:23:54] Yeah, it really it really did seem to happen very quickly in terms of like what we are accustomed to in the turnaround time for an investigation like this.

[00:24:09] It's it's almost as if I mean it's not almost as if I mean he kind of admits this at one point but like, you know we hear so often about serial murderers wanting to be caught and and doing things that are just like brazen.

[00:24:25] The way that he acted was just wild like using the victims credit card, but not stealing the money from the wallet.

[00:24:35] Yeah, attacking other victims on the same night or like in the same proximity as the as the first victim wearing an article of like clothing that one of his victims was wearing.

[00:24:50] It's just, it's just so you can't even imagine like what has to be on the mind of someone who would think to do all of this.

[00:25:01] Yeah, he didn't even use the ticket for Zahrakan. It's like he's telling them where he's from. It was bizarre.

[00:25:09] It was very weird and that kind of brings us to like the second episode where we learned that we learn about a victim named Alexander.

[00:25:18] And this is where I would say the family element really kicks in we did have a really good interview with Nikki sister uncle in the first episode like she was so compelling she did that was another

[00:25:36] she was incredible. Yeah, yeah they they really did humanize the victim so we don't want our listeners to think that they did it.

[00:25:49] They did a great job of telling us Nikki's backstory, but episode two was all Alexander's family because Alexander had died a month prior to Nikki and his family were just like they were baffled.

[00:26:05] And this is the police work we're used to y'all like Alexander was just his mother found him dead in his apartment, just in his bed, dead.

[00:26:17] And you know the coroner's office none of them they couldn't figure out what it was and they're just like up well unknown, and they let it go.

[00:26:26] And once the police released all the information about the dark room killer to the public.

[00:26:36] That's when Alexander is like friends and family and their grandmother reached out and was like, hey, just let you know guys know are like my great my grandson died mysteriously as well maybe you should look into it.

[00:26:51] And those police did the did the job. They did end up finding evidence of DHB and Alexander's blood also his cell phone his wallet, his backpack was all missing.

[00:27:06] And then on top of that his friends were like, hey, that jacket in the surveillance video. That was Alexander's jacket like so many things that tied this this killer to Alexander this is now they're like now he's serial killer because he's confirmed killed two people and attempted a third.

[00:27:29] And this episode was like really heartbreaking because the family, you could you could really tell the loss and the devastation.

[00:27:37] You can feel Alexander's from Alexander's death.

[00:27:42] But it also was just like man, this guy was just doing this to do it to because one of the things that I found interesting for a case like this.

[00:27:55] And not to get like real graphic but I was surprised or like no sexual assault element. There is no sexual element that they could find which you would you know normally you would think in these cases, you know we've covered a couple of serial killers

[00:28:11] like this and it was just like, it makes it even worse I think it was Doreen the friend who was like it just makes it even worse that he just felt like he did it just to do it.

[00:28:21] Sarah, what did you think of episode two.

[00:28:25] I liked hearing about Berlin has 100 to 120 homicides a year. So I guess about two a week that seems like a lot. Question mark, but maybe it's not the politicized solve 90%.

[00:28:40] That's a really good statistic.

[00:28:43] That is amazing. Yeah.

[00:28:46] And then our investigative from from episode one talks to us about exploratory death investigations and how they're different from homicide investigations.

[00:28:55] And I really like that granular detail, because he says that Alexander's death was investigated, but it was investigated in this exploratory death investigation style rather than the homicide.

[00:29:09] Because they had no evidence that it was homicide. He was in his bed lying on his tummy with his blanket over him. And I think it does happen.

[00:29:20] And so they had no other for Alexander they had no other indication, other than the door was unlocked in other words the perpetrator closed the door behind them but you know that somebody can forget particularly if they feel unwell, they can forget to lock the door.

[00:29:37] I don't know that the police were derelict here.

[00:29:43] No signs of a struggle. No signs of a break in.

[00:29:47] They didn't just say, oh it's nothing they did investigate it.

[00:29:53] But they must have, my, they must have still had Alexander's body because once they put the two together when the grandmother rings, they can go to the body.

[00:30:02] So it hasn't actually been buried because it's not solved.

[00:30:05] Yeah, so I don't.

[00:30:08] I'm not sure it to me it kind of sound like maybe they had to save like maybe the samples like blood.

[00:30:15] Okay that makes sense that makes sense yes. Yeah, I think I think they saved samples and was able to test what at that point they had they knew that the killer was using the liquid ecstasy.

[00:30:27] So I think I think maybe they had saved some samples I would be my that would be that makes much more sense.

[00:30:33] Yeah, yes, especially since this was like you said an exploratory death investigation. I they had no idea what what happened to him so I would imagine they would take extra samples, just in case thoughts on episode two let's on your.

[00:30:51] I was just really drawn to the stories that Nikki sister and Alexander's grandmother had to tell about them as people.

[00:31:03] Like, that I just think the documentary did a really good job in episode one and two of humanizing who the victims were, and not letting us forget who these people are.

[00:31:17] And, and ultimately how tragic it is that they were lost in these ways but like also that they were lost by just living their, like most authentic life.

[00:31:30] And, you know, to someone else who was from their community to that they that they may have trusted to a certain extent.

[00:31:40] So I just, I thought that that was all really interesting. I know we talked about Nikki sister, but just like, you know Alexander's grandmother telling the story about how she would like make him a quiche so that he could take it with his friends and like go hang out in the park.

[00:31:54] And those are all just like everyday things that you do for people that you love and no one is supposed to have to bury their relatives like that. Yeah, and, and the, the family stories also coincide with like you pointed out earlier Latanya.

[00:32:11] This is when the killer starts to narrow it, narrate what's going on this is when they start reading directly from the killer dirks account of what happened so it's, it's very a very chilling contrast between the families who are still grieving and don't understand

[00:32:31] why their family members were taken and chosen to like this serial killer who's very nonchalant and cold and just talking about what he did like it was a stroll in the park.

[00:32:48] Okay, round two. Name something that's not boring.

[00:32:53] A laundry? Oh, a book club. Computer solitaire. Huh?

[00:32:59] Ah, sorry we were looking for Chumba Casino.

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[00:35:22] Episode two really it really gets dark it but episode three is where we dive in the deep end here because this is where they start introducing the killer to us.

[00:35:38] And this is almost like even before the investigation concludes. Am I right to say this Sarah it was like, it was just kind of like, oh, this guy Dirk, we, and we meet Dirk's aunt, Burjeet, and she's talking about Dirk and, and her mother, who was his grandmother, and it gets really weird.

[00:36:04] I mean, it's almost they just they start talking about Dirk and you go well like who's who's.

[00:36:12] Exactly.

[00:36:13] So well that we figure out it's the perpetrator but they don't you know tie a bow on it they just say let's listen to Birgit talk about her nephew they were only 10 years apart they grew up together.

[00:36:26] He, he, you know that the killer and the boy she knew are not the same person in her mind. But then they are because there's a very strange story of when her father died.

[00:36:40] Her mother, Dirk's grandmother made Dirk where her husband's pajamas and sleep in the same bed with her. We don't know any other details but Birgit says she could do anything she wanted with him.

[00:36:54] And when he was 13.

[00:36:56] When he was 13. And so there's a, there's some fuckery in that family. It does not excuse killing people. It does not know that she also says that when he came out to his grandmother, basically the mother that he knew his grandmother mother to him and whatever

[00:37:12] else she did. She called him disgusting and threw him out of the house. Please don't do that.

[00:37:19] I mean if he did kill her, not that she asked for it but that might have been the beginning psychologically and we are going to hear from the psychiatrist of this being a these being murders of control and power and not murders for sexual satisfaction or financial gain.

[00:37:41] And so that's what we're going to hear from the psychiatrist.

[00:37:44] Yeah, it's so it's so weird right because like we always get the obligatory like backstory of the perpetrator you know I'm saying and you have to you, you always have to get it because they always have to kind of explain how he got here.

[00:37:59] I don't like some, you know, not too ridiculously weird thing, you know, but here it was just like, oh no, it was just like one step after another you're like, it's like you can see where somebody gets messed up and gets traumatized.

[00:38:15] You know, but you know, being having a traumatic childhood did not equal serial killer. So, like you said we're not excusing it it's just so unfortunate. And we do hear from one of his ex colleague of Dirks Zilka who who says that you know you could tell he was a

[00:38:35] absolute homosexuals like okay all right.

[00:38:38] She like met him.

[00:38:41] Like, I love that.

[00:38:44] Yes. Yes. And they had this is where we like, did y'all notice we didn't have many pictures of dirt. This was kind of like the clearest pictures we had of him with her and him at like working as like nurses it was very interesting how it made me think of all the other

[00:39:04] properties we've seen Sarah where like, we got all the CCTV footage and all of this stuff and this one you don't we don't really get like actual direct photographs but I say all that to say that this episode was a do z because once

[00:39:22] we're introduced to Dirk and his backstory. We do get the final victim the story of the of the the final victim, Peter who dies 11 days after the attempted murder on Mira saw and the murder of Nikki.

[00:39:40] And it's just well he's escalating that's what struck me. So was he killed Alexander, and then a month later he kills Nikki and then 11 days later he kills Peter. This is a this is the escalation very, you know, gaspingly quick escalation that that we see in serial killers.

[00:40:02] Yeah, and again, we have no reason why he same thing Peter is found in his bed dead.

[00:40:11] At this point the police are very aware of what's going on. And you know, keys wallet, all that but gone but like nothing like it. It's still so so shockingly weird so when they do start to narrow the focus on to Dirk.

[00:40:31] Due to what was it what was the main Oh the iPhone T he stole a lot of their phones, and they're able to track the phones and stuff like that. And Dirk was not a good liar.

[00:40:48] Once they once they got to him.

[00:40:51] So Tonya what were your thoughts on once they captured him and all the police work that led into that.

[00:41:00] I thought it was really interesting and insightful into the mind of a killer of just like the number of times that he changed his story.

[00:41:11] Like, you know, I want to recant what I said two days ago.

[00:41:16] I didn't explain myself properly or I mean we hear so many times about especially serial killers wanting to get the record straight, like they want to talk.

[00:41:28] The police seem to really take an interest in him right away, you know not just because they had the evidence of like the train ticket and the cell phones but just because he was talking himself into a corner.

[00:41:44] And it really did seem like he wanted that light like he wanted to be to be stopped he wanted to explain, even though he didn't really have explanations or motive right.

[00:41:59] He wanted to, and that's what's so chilling about this whole thing. Exactly. There's no, and there never will be now that he has completed suicide. There's no why of why he did any of this.

[00:42:17] And I think that that's something that is going to forever stay with obviously the victims families they'll never have a reason, not that any reason is enough to make you feel at peace.

[00:42:33] But just like having some idea of what's going on in another person's head of why they would take someone like several people's lives in this way.

[00:42:44] Yeah, because they're supposed like he was supposed he's a nurse. He's supposed to be saving people.

[00:42:52] But he used all of that knowledge to kill people.

[00:42:55] Right, it's very interesting that like, like you said that I was I was really going to lead it I was gonna finish with that that's the scariest thing he never even though he changed his story to account for like some of the facts and stuff.

[00:43:12] He never said why he did it, not in the report that they're reading that like his statement. He never says it he doesn't apologize to the families. We do get his trial like we said he was sentenced to three live sentences.

[00:43:25] The whole family members were there of the victims and I loved hearing from each one of them talking about their thought process and process in that court they see him there, you know, they want to be there to in lieu of their family members.

[00:43:39] And he never says why he does it we still don't know to this day and even for me thinking like he was a nurse. I'm starting to wonder like, should they have gone back looking at some of his cases wondering if he was like an angel, but I feel like these police were really on top of it so

[00:43:56] if they didn't find anything, maybe they'd you know, maybe they didn't find anything but

[00:44:03] Yeah, I just I just thought this this trial this this episode kind of goes a little quickly once we get to the trial portion. Sarah, what did you think about the end of the docu series.

[00:44:16] I liked it. Yeah, I liked Miroslav representing himself. He's the only victim that survives.

[00:44:25] They didn't go too deeply in it but it's the idea of all the family members and Miroslav all sitting together, finding this sort of strange said fellowship together.

[00:44:37] And I was like, Oh when I sat with everybody else I realized, you know how big it was and how surrounded she was. That was lovely.

[00:44:46] I also loved Doreen staring at Dirk and and he stared back at her and she decided I'm going to keep my stare, and he looked away and she was kind of like that was her victory.

[00:45:02] And he ended very well. There's nothing even though it sounds sense if you're just listening to us and you haven't watched it first of all why but sensational as the facts are, I don't think the documentary was sensationalist was very calm.

[00:45:20] It was very step by step.

[00:45:22] We had a few dance party techno DJ nights.

[00:45:27] But there was a, you know, nobody's wailing and crying. There were a few tears that were shed. A few people had to swallow and compose themselves briefly.

[00:45:38] There was a lovely, almost contemplative thoughtfulness about this documentary that I really appreciated. And this ending, put a button on that with just, and that's what happened. And now we don't know.

[00:45:53] Okay.

[00:45:56] Yeah.

[00:45:58] So, let's go to our ratings. I think we did a great job of really summing up the these three episodes again. If you got in this far, and you didn't watch it. I would still say go back and watch it. It was a fantastic property that goes by very quickly.

[00:46:14] But Latanya, how many magnifying glasses are you going to rate crime scene Berlin out of a possible five.

[00:46:22] I would give it four out of five, maybe 4.5 out of five.

[00:46:30] I, there are a couple things that I maybe wanted more of like I, these are, and these could be completely separate documentaries and in of themselves.

[00:46:41] I would like to know more about how the falling of the Berlin wall led to having like popular nightlife spots in like, where they popped up.

[00:46:53] That type of history is really interesting to me and it's mentioned briefly at the beginning of episode one.

[00:47:00] I would like more time with the psychologist at the end, or an episode three who seems to really know what it's like to murder someone and enjoys it.

[00:47:16] I would just like to know what her story is and also where she bought her suit because it looked very expensive and very nice.

[00:47:24] Like, overall, I really thought that this was a killing is the word that comes to mind. I just like from here hearing how detached the statement of the killer was and how just like matter of fact nonchalant I think

[00:47:45] Murray said earlier, everything that he said was it's just wild that something like this could happen and someone would process it in this way.

[00:47:56] And yet we still never get to know why it happened.

[00:48:00] Exactly.

[00:48:01] Sarah, how many magnifying glasses are you going to rate this docu series out of a possible five.

[00:48:06] Well, LaTanya, I think you're right. We definitely need an entire documentary about Dr. Nala Samar, the forensic psychiatrist and where she gets her clothing.

[00:48:17] I was I wanted for nothing other than that. I wanted for nothing. I'm going to give it five magnifying glasses.

[00:48:26] I would say, even if you've listened all the way through like Murray, even if you've already listened to us and you haven't watched it.

[00:48:32] There's so much richness in it that you can find so I'm going to say five magnifying glasses strong recommend what about you Murray.

[00:48:41] I would give it a 4.5. I'll split the difference here because again, I it lost me a little bit when transitioning between episode one and episode two. I had to realize they were jumping back in the timeline.

[00:48:55] But other than that, I think it was produced very well. I think again, reenactments went very well. I love hearing from all of the talking heads.

[00:49:06] I don't think any talking heads were like wasted at all. I didn't think any of them are frivolous. I thought the ones that we did get like y'all said we could have gotten more of them.

[00:49:17] It doesn't screen perfect property to me though. Like, I don't know just my feeling like it's not, it was not perfect, but it is very close to it so that's why I'm going to give it a 4.5 out of five.

[00:49:32] I had strong strong recommend I really do recommend this. This property I thought it was, it was so solid and it's so it's so easily digestible. I truly feel it like Netflix just put credits in between an hour and a half documentary for no reason.

[00:49:52] I needed the three parts, but it just flowed into each other so well that it was such an easy watch, either subbed or dubbed. I had to dub it because I had to try and do 8 million other things while I was watching it.

[00:50:09] But I still enjoyed it. I still feel like I got the whole entire gist of what was going on.

[00:50:16] Sarah, what do you have to recommend to our listeners today?

[00:50:20] Well, we have a recommendation from Anna who we heard from at the beginning of the episode. She writes the runaway princesses is a 4 episode mini series by the in the dark podcast in the dark fantastic side recommendation there.

[00:50:34] It's about several princesses from Dubai trying to get away from Sheikh Mohammed. The first two seasons have been the dark. I recommend those as well. Thank you Anna. We love hearing listener recommendations.

[00:50:46] I hope you keep them coming. And for myself, I want to recommend an absolutely brilliant podcast. It's called Beyond All Repair.

[00:50:54] Journalist Amarie Sevitsen investigates the murder of Marlene, her daughter in law Sonia is found guilty of the murder sentenced to prison when the only evidence against her is her brother's word that he saw her beat Marlene to death.

[00:51:09] She says she wasn't there.

[00:51:11] You'll want to press play on the next episode as soon as you finish one. It's it's it's astonishing, very the stories astonishing but it's also extremely well made six episodes have dropped. I can't wait for the next one.

[00:51:26] As for me for my recommendation this week, I will recommend history on trial. It is a podcast brought to you by the people who do noble blood. I know I suggested noble blood.

[00:51:40] I'm pretty sure on one of our very, very early episodes. But history on trial is an amazing podcast series that focus on trials from like the early early history trials that shaped America.

[00:51:56] And it has four episodes out right now. The first episode is the infamous trial of Levi weeks, which was defended by Alexander Hamilton and Aaron Burr.

[00:52:11] It was such a good episode for anybody who loves history out there all my history buffs. This podcast is for you. It talks about how the trials set precedents, and it talks about how these trials like almost shift American history.

[00:52:30] Some of the other episodes include the trial against Charles Gato, the man who killed President Garfield. Another episode features district attorney Francis Scott key, who is prosecuting an anti slavery man named Ruben Crandall, which is was very interesting to hear.

[00:52:51] And finally, California versus confidential a case about tabloid newspapers and what they're allowed to cover. Either way history on trial is so fun.

[00:53:03] And so, I think that episodes come out every two weeks. And each trial is something completely different. So you can skip around to one that you like. I really, really recommend it for people who love history and who love true crime and how it kind of merges and who love court cases.

[00:53:24] And we are eager to hear your feedback and suggestions for future episodes. You can follow crime scene on Twitter at crime scene, our JP that's crime s e in our JP or you can email us at crime scene rjp at gmail.com.

[00:53:41] We're on tick tock at crime dot scene and other social media at crime scene podcast. And please remember to subscribe to our feed Rob has a website dot com slash crime feed. It makes a big difference.

[00:53:54] Let's talk about what you have going on and where can the people find you.

[00:53:59] So I did a couple weeks on the movie ladder podcast, the first movie that we talked about was poor things starring Emma Stone.

[00:54:09] Her Academy Award winning role.

[00:54:12] You may or may not agree with that Academy Award win but you know that's up to you.

[00:54:17] And then from there we talked about Barbie, which is one of my favorite movies of the last year that I have been waiting to talk about on a podcast so that was really exciting to do.

[00:54:29] And then my recommendation for the next movie pleasant bill was the one that was chosen so that's what they talked about next week. You can also find me on RHA P talking about the new season of Top Chef, which is very exciting right now both Haley and Kurt are they have fled the country.

[00:54:53] And I know that the reason is unknown. So I am holding it down with Brendan Fitzpatrick and Gea worthy, and we'll be talking about the next episode this coming Thursday.

[00:55:05] You can follow me for more on Twitter at LK Starks or on Instagram at storm born 1222.

[00:55:14] And then we'll be on the recap kickback this week with me and Chappelle talking all things surely. We had a lot of some fun talking about that, that movie and you can find that on the recap kickback coming pretty soon.

[00:55:31] Sarah, what do you have going on.

[00:55:34] Follow me at Sarah Karadine on all the things if they'd like to do that over on silent podcasts Naomi Calhoun and I are covering season 17 of Taskmaster UK.

[00:55:47] And your Aussie Queens Annabelle Fiddler and I are covering season two of alone Australia. Our guest last week was original rebel island Chong. And this week it's Sam Smith from the traders New Zealand.

[00:55:59] Speaking of the traders, Sam and I are covering the traders Quebec podcast about the season premiere will be in your feed on Friday. What about you Murray what do you have going on.

[00:56:12] Well, me and that Scott will be doing our final wrestling episode.

[00:56:21] We went to WrestleMania we came we saw we conquered. We had a very fun time, very cold time. But if you want to hear all of our experience you can go to Rob has a website.com slash wrestling feed in order to hear us talk about our experience at

[00:56:40] WrestleMania 40 going there live and in person.

[00:56:45] Of course, like I said, the recap kickback is still going strong me and Chappelle get together. And we talk about whatever he wants to talk about if you haven't listened to our cowboy Carter album coverage that was so fun.

[00:56:59] And that came out last week, where we got a panel together of beehive and maybe not so be beehive and we talked about Beyonce's release of the cowboy Carter album we had so much fun.

[00:57:11] And then of course like we said surely is coming up we're going to be dropping that if you haven't already please subscribe to the recap kickback podcast by going to recap kickback calm, or by going to YouTube calm slash at recap kickback.

[00:57:27] We're taking next week off and we will return Tuesday April 23. Sarah, what are we watching then?

[00:57:34] Well next time on crime scene we're covering what Jennifer did with Rebecca LaVoy watch it from April 10 on Netflix and send us your comments and questions.

[00:57:46] Thanks to the time starts for joining us will from America for the theme music and the whole RTP team behind the scenes. Until next time case closed.

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