Worst Neighbor Ever | Crime Seen episode 207

[00:00:25] I'm Mari Forth I'm Sarah Carradine and I'm podcasting from Unseated Gadigal And this is Crime Seen, the true crime review podcast where we get to the heart of how true crime stories are told. Today we are recording this main feed episode live with our members. So welcome chat. Chat, how are you going? Don't forget to just jump in anytime. We'll be watching your comments. Yes. Last week we took a holiday. We left you with a replay of our first ever live episode.

[00:00:52] That was the TikTok killer with Matt Scott and that was exclusive for members. So we brought it out from behind the paywall so everybody could hear it. We have an update on that case if you heard it way back when we first published it or you heard it last week. Last month Dinamita Montilla, better known as Dinamita Montilla, was found guilty and sentenced to 24 and a half years in prison for the murder of 21 year old David in Malaga in August 2022.

[00:01:20] He is currently in Archidona prison where he had to be placed in isolation following an attack by other inmates. Couldn't have happened to him. Montilla is still awaiting trial for the murder of Esther Estapa. And listeners will recall that Esther disappeared in August 23 and her body was found in June. It is our belief that he killed her. This is not adjudicated yet, but we are of the end. Mari, what did we watch this week? This week we watched Worst Neighbor Ever on Netflix.

[00:01:47] This new topic from Blumhouse joins Worst Roommate and Worst Ex Ever, both of which have two seasons. And every time he tries to get out, we pull him back in. Returning for the 11th time, it's Jason Reed. Jason! Welcome back! What's up, you guys? You know, I really debated whether I should have come into this recording topless, but I did want to keep coming back.

[00:02:13] So I decided that I wouldn't subject you and your lovely watchers and listeners to that. So I decided to keep it classy and keep a shirt on for this time. Listen, this is my third worst ever. I'm starting to get a complex. Why am I the worst ever person? Am I the worst ever guest? What is that? What is this? Why am I the worst ever person? Well, first off, it's not illegal for you have your top off in Maryland. So free to free the tatas.

[00:02:42] Second, no one wants to see that, Mari. I swear to everyone. Second, honestly, you're you're a series regular whenever you've been on the worst X series. So we're like, we have to keep him coming back. You have to be here for what we do. It's just like with Chappelle doing the train wrecks. When you get a series, we like to stick with the same person. Hey, I'm not complaining. I feel like you might have a few series. Yeah. I'm not complaining. I just I took note. I took note.

[00:03:11] I was like, they got all the worst ever stuff. Well, they try to tell them something. But hey, I'll take I'll take any gig. Your errant semen and gruesome murders. That's your daily week. Uh, child endangerment is up there for me. Yeah. All the lovelies. Well, I think you're what is he Sarah two behind Matt and Chappelle? Three. Three. They're 14 timers. Okay. Matt might be 15. Yeah. Listen, uh, bloom house. Get some more worst going worst.

[00:03:41] Worst, uh, worst mail carrier ever. Worst, uh, worst cashier ever. Worst teacher ever. Get them all out there so I can come back and catch up with these two. Uh, with these two jokers. Or someone spray some semen somewhere where they shouldn't and then we'll get you. And also though, I also did have to go back. I was like worst neighbor ever. And then I was like, oh, first one was worst roommate ever. Yeah. Yeah. This and this quite possibly might be the worst in the actual series.

[00:04:10] I was like, wow, this sucks. Interesting. I thought it was the best series. No, no, no. I mean, sorry. But the stories are super bad. Yes. Thank you, Sarah. That's what I meant. Like, this was the worst round of stories. I was like, wow, this sucks. I disagree. Oh, the culprits. Okay. We'll talk about it. Please. I disagree a little bit. I, I, I thought I, the, my thought was this was a little, to me, it was a little tame for like, for the stuff we've seen from the worst, from the worst X's.

[00:04:39] Like I thought those X stories were crazy insane. And I felt like a lot of the, of the four stories is just like, okay. Like in the worst X's for me, there was a lot of twists and turns. There weren't a whole lot of twists and turns for this. Very true. Very true. There was like, and a lot of times in worst X, like a lot of those X's had like multiple victims. And these, a lot of these people had like, it was one incident that happened that, that yes, were very heinous and terrible.

[00:05:07] But I thought these were like kind of tame stories. So I'm going to come in here and be like, these aren't, these were not as, as crazy as, as the other stuff. Now y'all are saying you're, you think he's the craziest. Well, so for me, when I, when I think about it, it's because I think, uh, remind me if I'm wrong, but in the last season of worst X ever that we just covered, there was like only one murder in there. Like a lot of it was like abuse, scamming, dah, dah, dah, dah, dah. Well, there was two, there, there was the guy who went on that murder spree. And then it was the lesbian killer.

[00:05:37] Like, I feel like, and then the previous season, that lady had her whole like life turned upside down by her ex. It took me. I was just like, there's, there's less deaths in worst X ever. And this one just felt like, and you know, also it's that kind of that. That thing of like, just kind of not like random chance. It's like, it's like being hurt by an intimate part partner versus by a neighbor or a stranger.

[00:06:03] To me, it's like those stranger neighbor ones are always like, so infuriating to me because it's like that person just didn't even know, basically barely knew this person and decided to take their life type thing. So I, that's so, that's so interesting. The different thoughts. What do you, what do you think Sarah about across the, the, the worst ever series? Well, the, the X is, I mean, we call it intimate partner violence for a reason. They are intimate.

[00:06:31] And it seems like often it's like a sealed world of two people, one trapping the other, one unable to escape. And here it's the, and we, we must say it is the least likely way of being murdered is being murdered by a stranger, much more likely to be murdered by someone that you know. And it's the, the horror, I mean, the very last line of the fourth episode is you don't really know who you're living next to. Don't be afraid people, please don't be afraid.

[00:06:58] But it is also across all of the, all of the worst ever is people not trusting their guts. Their gut telling them, no. And then of course we're all too polite. So I like this new thing. Well, it's not a new thing, but I like this thing now of, uh, be kind, don't be nice. That's an, I agree. Yeah. Especially for women, especially for women of my generation who have socialized to be, to be nice. Please don't be nice.

[00:07:24] But so I think I found these more effective because it was that Blumhouse horror of, I didn't even go out on a date with you and you're stalking me and killing me. Yes. Because it comes from such an out of left field. Yes. In the worst place.

[00:07:40] Uh, yeah, I could say, I just, I just think in the worst X series that we've done together, like all the heinous things that were done in those series, like to me is like so paramount that, you know, I can't stop thinking about the Asian woman and her mother, like. Oh, yes. Mercerly beating her, her, her boyfriend. And like, I think it was, was it, did he kill, did they kill his mother or killed his grandmother or something like that? And like stuck her in a trash can or something? Yes, his grandmother. Oh, I forgot about that. Yeah.

[00:08:09] I just remember them beating him up and then they couldn't do it because they were tiny little ladies. The tiny, tiny, tiny women. And he was very big, broad and tall. Like that shit is crazy. Yeah. When I think of this, I think, I think these stories are more cut and dry to me. So like, that's why I think it was like, it was less effective to me. I, I kind of thought it when I, when I watched it was like, why does it all have to end?

[00:08:33] Like I, I, I would have loved to see some like worst neighbor stories that were really twisty and turning and crazy that didn't necessarily end in a death. Yeah. I thought there should be more stories out there that are like that bad. I thought a lot of these were just kind of like, okay, yeah, they're, they're really bad. They're heinous, but I don't feel like they rise to the level of like what we've seen.

[00:08:51] I mean, I, I like the, the neighbor stories and I thought we were going to get this in the first episode where she put the driveway over onto his, over, over the line and he surveys it and then he gets his cars and he puts it up. So I love those stories where people want to do things and the other person says, no, when I want to do it. All right, let's get it surveyed. And they find out they've got less property than they thought they had. If you'd just shut up, you would have had more property.

[00:09:17] So that, that I like, I mean, we've all had infuriating neighbors. I think for me, it's that thing too, if you want to take it out of crime and into just inconvenience, you know, sometimes you go out or you go somewhere and the night devolves not into murder, but into boring or spending more money than you wanted to, or going somewhere you didn't want to. And the next day you reflect, where was the moment I should have pulled the plug? Was it the moment where they said, oh, well, we won't meet at eight. We'll meet at nine.

[00:09:47] And go, nope, I'm not coming at all. Or because my bedtime's 8.30. Or when it was, well, it was going to be three of us and now there's 10 of us. Like, when is the moment that you should have said, I'm out and you don't say you're out and you end up spending far too much money. You're bored and you had a terrible time and you didn't come at 8.30. So it seems like this here with a lot of these stories of when was the moment that you should have left your house? And I'm like, why should you? But why you should is so you don't get murdered.

[00:10:15] I mean, when you're at the point where you've boarded up all your windows and you're crouching inside your house, when's the moment that you should have moved? And this is not victim plan. This is we need to be less polite. Not in everyday senses, but we need to be less worried about I must be nice. Omari having said that, women have to be nice sometimes to avoid being with it. So it's like, I'm two sidesing it now. It's so hard. Yeah. Where does ego give way? You know?

[00:10:45] And I, and I agree. I agree with you, Jason. I definitely think that, especially with worst ex ever, the two seasons of worst ex ever, way more. Oh my God, I didn't see that coming. Like way more like what? I, especially that, the one with, like I said, the woman in New York with, um, with the, the ex who like was pretended to be a cop and basically got that woman put in jail and she lost her whole business.

[00:11:14] That one does stick with me. And again, nobody died, but she did lose like, didn't she lose like a couple years of her life or something like that? Yeah. Yeah. And all her business, all her, everything, like stuff like that. I agree very much more compelling, um, as, as a, a watchable property. These to me were just more heartbreaking. It was like watching basically like three, uh, the perfect neighbors.

[00:11:42] We watched the perfect neighbor on Netflix, like was literally basically crying on the podcast. And that's what it kind of felt like watching at least two of these episodes. So I think that's what I, I guess that's what I just meant by like, wow, like people's, people's lives are like destroyed, changed by people across the street. Like that, that to me is so crazy and unfathomable. And it literally made me look at my walls.

[00:12:07] Like, dang, if a fire happened next door, we would be, cause I live in a townhouse. So it's, I share walls. They probably hear me right now. Like, I don't know. But let's, let's definitely, uh, get into these episodes, uh, just in case if there's anybody here who didn't watch the property and is here for us.

[00:12:27] So episode one entitled, She Finally Snapped is about Francis who goes from Shauna and Davis's house guests to a paranoid neighbor obsessed with grievances and intent on escalating her one-sided feud. Um, so Sarah, uh, this episode probably reminded me the most about perfect neighbor. Uh, what were your initial thoughts and over overall, should I say, what was your overall thoughts of this episode?

[00:12:57] Well, I think it was a really good, I liked the way they placed the four episodes. And as we go through, we'll sort of see how, how it moved as a through line. And I think they're generally very good at that with the worst whatevers. And this was a good one in, I think the fact that it reflected to some extent, perfect neighbor, which was an amazing, um, uh, documentary from last year. Uh, if you haven't seen it, go and see it, gird yourself and get some tissues. So it did remind me of that.

[00:13:25] Uh, and I was super puzzled. And I think one of the reasons that I do like neighbor, it's not more than X, but it's different to X. In X, I know what these mostly men, it's not all men, sometimes women. But these mostly men are doing, they're gaining control, they're isolating the person. Uh, they have an ego that needs to be fed. They have narcissistic words. Here, what the hell was going on with Frances? It was so bizarre, uh, in a little more detail.

[00:13:55] She's the cousin's friend or the friend's cousin or the something. She was like a family friend who basically grew up. A family friend, they knew her. Yeah, like who basically grew up under, uh, Shauna's mom. Like Shauna's mom basically kind of like, like raised her. Yeah, exactly. They were play cousins, basically. They were play cousins. And so she sells her house and then her new house across the road. I did love the aerial shot telling us where everybody lived.

[00:14:23] They did very good graphics and they did a floor plan later of the townhouse. Just does orient you in the, um, in the geography because the geography is super important with this, with the neighbors. So she sells her house. She's bought the house across the road. It's not ready. And Shauna and her husband, Dave say, please do come and stay. And she swans about the house, like the lady of the manor telling people to be quiet,

[00:14:51] turning off people's television programs, which I believe in America is a capital offense to take control of the, of the remote control when it's not yours. And it does make you think what happened? What's the, where's the psychic break? Was she jealous? Was she, see, race does come in, but it seemed that she was high handed with both Shauna, who was white and Dave, who was black, her husband and high handed with the children running

[00:15:20] around like children do. She moves over the road and then becomes this malevolent figure. I must say we've talked before about the animations and the animations have always been great. And we reached pinnacle animation in this episode because they animate when she's out on her ride on mower, nude and naked in front of the children.

[00:15:45] And I thought, this is why we've had five seasons of anime so that we can have Frances plopping around on her ride in mower, staring sideways, malevolently at the yard where the children are black. It's so good. She is obviously suffering. I mean, suffering something. She calls the police continually, which the, the woman in Perfect Neighbor did. And again, the police don't ever really take it seriously.

[00:16:15] And they're not going to take another case seriously either. You children get along together. I'll put you in a get along t-shirt. One thing I found interesting was the deputy, whether in this case or another said, we have to go out to every call. I've been a triple O operator, which is a 911 operator. And police are actually allowed to, police and other services are allowed to nuisance certain phone numbers and put the call through to us to say, you can nuisance this phone number. And we disconnect them.

[00:16:45] Now that's within an evening. And there are obviously protocols about how many times that person has called, whether someone's gone out and checked and so on. But I, I guess they didn't want to get into the weeds on it, but she was calling multiple times a night, multiple times during the day. And it escalates to the point where she goes over with a gun, shoots Shauna in the face, casually shoots Shauna in the face, goes back out of the porch and shoots Dave.

[00:17:15] And again, these animations, that was actually heartbreaking because they are able to let us watch Dave in his last moments. But before that happens, there's this scuffle. Now who, somebody tell me what really happened because Shauna at the end of her wits goes over to Frances's house, which is what Frances has been. And not only is it what Frances has been waiting for, but Shauna, you knew it was what Frances. And Frances comes out and there is a physical altercation.

[00:17:44] And when the police come, Shauna, from the tiny bit of body-worn footage that we see, she actually looks like the aggressor, which sort of theoretically she was. So these two women are rolling round and round on their front, on the front porch and they're all scraped and battered. Jason, what, what was the impetus of all this? What, what was going on? Well, I think a lot of it, like, apparently at some point, you know, Frances was causing havoc in town.

[00:18:13] This is a very small town, very town where everyone, everyone knows your name. Everyone knows everyone. And as we mentioned, like the deputies in town, like the guy was like, we only have two deputies on at any given night. So this is a very small and in this small town, I think what really kind of kicked this off, like the inciting incident was that, you know, Shauna is over here on disability and she's, she's out here, as she said, volunteering at, at her friend's, what was it, tanning

[00:18:41] salon, AKA perpetrating disability fraud. I love that. She was like, I was volunteering at my friend's tanning salon. I was just going over there to hang out. Yeah. And support her. Not, not, not getting paid on the table. Can't prove she wasn't. At all. Yeah. I wish she wasn't Jason. Yeah. Yeah. And she, and she, you know, that Francis. Only the chat can see those rabbit ears that you're making, Jason. Yes. Yes. Volunteer. Quote unquote, volunteering.

[00:19:07] But, and, you know, Frances like threatened to, you know, turn her in to the disability board and all this. And it was just so, you know, it started inside the house when Frances was living with Shauna and she was doing things like, you know, telling their kids, telling her grandkids to shut up. Like, be quiet. You talking too loud. And, you know, unplugging the vacuum as Shauna is like vacuuming early in the morning. But I mean, come on now. Come on now. She was vacuuming at 6. She was vacuuming early. Come on now. Come on. Hey. I think she was. She says, I'm a very clean person. And everyone knows that.

[00:19:37] I think you're a passive aggressive vacuumer. Yeah. Hey. Listen. Come on. You do not deserve what happened to you, Shauna, but you should not be vacuuming at 6 a.m. when you got other people in the house. It's her house. Yeah, I don't care. It's her house. I don't care. There are house rules. Okay. For everyone. So that's where things really started. I like when it was just like, yes, Frances moved across the street for some reason. Tensions got real high. Yeah. Because you kicked her out. That was already the house that she bought. That was the house she was always going to move into.

[00:20:05] It was like, and for some reason, tensions escalate. Yes. Because you kicked her out. Did you, did, did like, was she deserving of kicking out? Of course. Sure. And so, you know, they just keep picking at each other. And Shauna, like, here's the thing, folks. We need, we need training on when to recognize mentally ill folks. And when to de-escalate. When to not engage. Because that was Shauna's fatal flaw. Was engaging, escalate. Because this woman is not a woman with ill intent. This woman is a mentally unstable person.

[00:20:35] From, from the calls. You're giving her a lot of grace here. She feels genuinely persecuted. Yeah. Well, from the calls we hear to the cops. She feels, she legitimately feels that she's being targeted. She's being threatened. When I'm sure that's not happening. And like, this is a, this, I believe this is a legitimately unstable, unwell person. And we need to be able to identify those folks and be like, I ain't gonna mess with that. Because that's what, that's, that was Shauna's fatal flaw. Was like, engaging too much in it. I agree.

[00:21:05] It's just nude. I mean, it's just a nude body. No. I don't know. It was, it was, it was a scuffle. It was a scuffle. She was, that's, that's what kicked everything off. She was trying to provoke her. Like, after the scuffle, Shauna had, Shauna was under, you know, Shauna had to go to trial. Shauna was under that, uh, restraining order. So, everything after that, Francis was trying to provoke Shauna to break the restraining order so then she could get thrown into prison. Because she knew she was only gonna get probation.

[00:21:34] Like, it was actually Shauna receiving the plea deal of, of, uh, probation and anger management that, that made Francis snap and go and shoot her. And I, I just think y'all are giving her a lot of grace because I'm looking at the time period. She moves in with, with Shauna November, 2016. Okay. Who, who gets elected November, 2016? All of a sudden, people are very bold. She's bold. She's like, look at this, look at this documentary I'm in.

[00:22:02] Look at me holding signs saying God hates Muslims and, and all this racist, racist stuff in a black man's house. And then we, we said she may be a little racist. I said a little, a little. There ain't no little logic. And, and she was mad that her white woman tears weren't working. And she was blaming that Dave, who was an upstanding pillar of the community, who worked part-time at the jail.

[00:22:31] They, well loved. Everybody loved him. A black man who was not fitting the stereotype, uh, that she wanted to. She, she had it. And she was emboldened by everything that's been happening. So she strolled her little happy ass over there and, and took a gun and shot these people. And I think it's bullshit. Like, that's what really pissed me off. I'm like, I, I don't understand how Shauna and David didn't have their own guns and, and why their door wasn't locked.

[00:22:58] Cause she literally just opened their door up and just walked all up in there. I mean, that's the kind of town they looked in. They felt, they felt safe to leave the doors unlocked. Like you hear, you hear that all the time. Like it's such a, it's such a welcoming, lovely, lovely environment. We just leave our doors unlocked. Yeah. They have been dealing with that lady for two years. My glad next to the door at all times. Ooh. If I had to deal with this lady. Shauna's daughter, Hayley, does say that Francis always looked like she was about to ask for the manager. I thought, oh, Hayley is brilliant. Yes. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:23:26] But I mean, I think, I think the act, the act of just going over there and like cold, but really murdering these people or trying to murder these people. Yeah. And still seeing herself as a victim. Yeah. Still seeing herself as a victim. I think just lends, lends me to believe that she is really, really physically, like mentally and the fact, like poor Dave. Within the first two minutes and Dave, everyone loves Dave. I was like, oh, fuck. Yeah. Me too. I was like, poor Dave. Oh yeah, it's Dave. Dave's gone. I said, poor Dave. Dave is gone.

[00:23:56] And like, you know, these worst, these worst series, they, they've, they've become a little formulaic. Like when, when they, when they, when they start, you know, you know, who's great. You know, who we all love is Dave. Like, oh, Dave's dead. Dave's dead. Damn it. Dave's dead. And just, and just the steps that they go to, to, to really, uh, lionize these people. Like, I'm sure Dave, I'm sure Dave was a great guy.

[00:24:21] I'm sure Dave has some sort of, but like Dave was a, Dave was just a godsend to everyone. 150 people came to his funeral, Jason. I'm sorry. I know. I think that's proof. But it's not just this one. Corrections officers from all over the state came to staff the jail that he worked out so that the entire staff of the jail he worked at could come to his funeral. Yeah. But it's not just this one though. It's like, it's all of these where they go, you know who we love? Who's just like. You know who lights up a room?

[00:24:47] A saint among us who might, who may, who may have been God sent here on earth. It was Dave. Or whoever it is in that episode. Like if they are introduced in the first five, five seconds of the property. Like, yep. Yeah. He's dead. He or she is dead. Not in that fourth episode. They were like, well, he's kind of weird. He's a weirdo, but he didn't deserve that though. He was just a little weird. He was a little reclusive, but we loved him. Yeah. Right. Yeah, exactly. So Frances also gets a plea deal.

[00:25:17] She pleads guilty to murder, secondary assault, wanton endangerment. I love that word, wanton. And she gets 35 years. She is not going to have that happy. I hope she rots. Just like Shauna said. I hope she never sees the outside. Hayley went up there, Shauna's daughter, and said, I do not forgive you. I will never forgive you. I don't want to forgive you. And I was like, you know what? Hayley. Queen. They say that forgiveness is good for the soul. I do not forgive you.

[00:25:46] Do not forgive you at all. I don't give a shit. I hope you rots. I love to. Because, you know, as we know. On to episode two, which might possibly be at least two thirds of this panel's favorite episode, entitled Midwest Meltdown. After a quiet Indiana suburb is rocked by a massive explosion, investigators begin to question the motives of neighbors, Monsi and her new boyfriend, Mark. Now, this one was one where like, like I'm watching it.

[00:26:12] I'm, I'm, I want, I watched, I want to say all four in one sitting, maybe all three. And then by the fourth one, I was kind of like, I don't know. I was kind of not enough. I did three in one as well. I did three in one. Yeah. Yeah. And so by the second one, I was like, I'm paying attention, but I'm doing whatever I'm doing, running around after some kid. And so as they're like introducing people, I, I did not catch on to what was going to happen until it happened type thing. I didn't, I didn't see all the bloom house jump cuts until I went back and watched this

[00:26:42] episode. This is one of the episodes I watched twice. And so as they're introducing these people, I was like, oh my God, look at this town. Like, just like, this is such a nice looking neighborhood. It was like, why is there a big green patch right there? Why is all these houses? Yeah. And there's just like one, one parcel of land that's just grass. I wonder why that is. And so you were very, you were very excited to get to the end there, Mari, I guess. I had to figure out what happened there. I was like, I was like, they're being very specific with this chart.

[00:27:12] They're like, Monty's house is here. Then Abby's house is here. Gloria's house is right here. And then Dion and Jennifer's house is here. And I was like, okay, I'm talking to Gloria. I'm talking to Abby. I'm talking to Abby. Cat. All of a sudden, John, Dion's father is on here. I was like, oh boy. I know who died. Oh man. You know who everybody loved? You know who could do no wrong?

[00:27:41] Dion and Jennifer. You know, you know who just cared about everyone and just never discriminated? Was just the loveliest person? Dion and Jennifer. It's like, oh, okay. Dion and Jennifer are dead. Cool. Yep. It was just like, dang it. I mean, I knew that. I just didn't know how we were going to get there. I didn't know how we were going to get there either. Yeah. So we're talking to Abby who Monty, who she lived two doors down from Monty and Monty, they were friends.

[00:28:09] And Monty, I believe she's, I think they said she was Puerto Rican. She has like a slight accent, but she's fun. Her and Abby are going out and Monty lived with her, lived with her husband and her daughter at that time. All of a sudden she divorced from her husband. The neighbors said, we didn't know they were getting a divorce. And they were kind of wondering what is Monty going to do with the house? Because these are some nice houses. These are nice suburban houses. Big.

[00:28:39] Like big houses. Big. Like think of a rusted development. Whereas like all the houses are in a subdivision. They all basically look the same, built out of the same materials type thing. But Monty starts kind of like going out, dating different people, kind of having her wild era. And Abby's like, I had to stop hanging out with her. Basically her husband was like, stop hanging out with that lady.

[00:29:06] Like as much, as much as these people suffered indignities, I was like, these, like these people are like the most, sorry. The most like care any people. Like, it's just like, oh my, did you see her kissing someone outside? What a whore. Like, yeah. Meanwhile, Abby's sitting here with her best hair topper on top of her head for the interview. It's like, oh Abby. Like they put a scarlet letter on this woman. As soon as she got divorced, she's like, oh my gosh, you see, you see her hanging out with someone. You see her kissing that guy on her front lawn. I was like, okay, y'all be a little judgy at this point.

[00:29:36] Like not even before she kicked off. Y'all be a little judgy, but okay. Like I couldn't let my kids go outside anymore because she was, she was hanging out doing PDA with her boyfriend. I mean, we meet her new boyfriend. She introduced Abby in the neighborhood to her new boyfriend, Mark, who has frosted tips. He thinks he's in sync. Jail, right now. Jail, like 12 years too late. In the animation, they have the frosted tips as well, which is like absolute shit. To be fair, this is like 2009.

[00:30:06] Okay, this is like 2009, 2011. This is 2012, 2010-ish. No, this is like 2009, 2011-ish. That's still too late. It's too late. That's way too late. But you could be a little forgiven in 2009. A little bit. The world had not gone to shit yet. But it's the frosted tips, Jason, it's the frosted tips, the puka shell necklace, and the ankle monitor. The ankle monitor. Yeah, yeah. The ankle monitor. I gave you the ankle monitor for sure. That's an accessory you're not interested in seeing. Yeah. Now, Abby, when you see the ankle monitor, yes, send the kids inside. Okay?

[00:30:36] That's the sign to bring the kids inside. Well deserved. She tells her kids, stay inside. And this is about the time when we meet Mark's previous ex-girlfriend. And I was like, oh no. You know what I'm saying? I was like, where is this going? Oh no. And it culminates. She's telling us her story. And her story culminates with her lending him $10,000. Even though she said it here, Sarah. She said, my intuition told me to not do this. But I did it. Like, it's like, well, girl.

[00:31:05] But Joan, this is Joan with two Ns. At least she takes complete responsibility for having given this man $10,000. I say man. Listen, at least she had enough wherewithal to get a contract. She just didn't realize that that would not mean anything to this man. Yeah. When she went to file against him, they went, get in line. Literally. They said, we have three other claims ahead of yours. Six. Six. Was it six? It was six. Oh my God. I thought it was only three.

[00:31:35] Wow. That's even worse. Um, so we come back to the neighborhood, Richmond Hills. And we're talking about, I believe it was, uh, November. Yeah. November 12th. 10th. November 10th, 2012. And the neighbors are talking about how the day, it was a great day. It was nice and warm. Da da da da da. And suddenly we do get some camera footage, like inside camera footage of literally just people's houses being rocked.

[00:32:04] Like doors being blasted open. Microwaves being blasted open. We see walls shatter. And all of a sudden we just hear like, there's a big massive, shout out to the animation. The animation did a great job in this one. A lot of, a lot of good heavy lifting in here, um, for like the animation for the explosions and the people's reactions. And it's just so sad and surreal. They said how many, they said about, um, eight houses were destroyed, right?

[00:32:33] Between 30 and 80 had damage. Like it was, it was like a bomb went off in the middle of this suburban cul-de-sac. Three tons of TNT is what they found to be the blast force of what happened in this house. So it's very chaotic. There's fire everywhere. There's firemen trying to help neighbors trying to help. I thought, I just thought the storytelling here and how they did not even just the animation, but the, the cut-ins of all the neighbors was just really great and really painted the

[00:33:03] picture of what that night was like for everyone. So I did a great job there with all the narration and yes, the animation too, like just really kind of leading us into that, that, that night. Cause it kind of turned linear at that point of like the, the, the lead up to the events of all that happened from like, from the first, from the first inciting moment to like the whole community meeting, like really great. Yeah. And they had very good use of contemporaneous film footage, still shots and you know, the aftermath and then the animations as well.

[00:33:32] Really seamless. Brilliant. As you say, good story. It was, it was great storytelling. You really got the franticness of that night. Um, we get Gloria, Gloria and her, her daughter saying like how they felt waking up with just heavy stuff on top of them and it's their whole roof had collapsed on them. And the story slowly unfolds that unfortunately Dion and Jennifer, they were trapped in their house as well, but they, uh, rescuers weren't able to get to them.

[00:34:02] And well, rescuers were able to get to them, but unfortunately they weren't able to help them in time before the fire engulfed them and their house, which was so weird. That was the worst. And then again, when we hear him from inside the house calling him an emergency. And I thought, oh Jesus, you're still alive. I hoped that they were already dead, but they were not. And then knowing that someone was there, like have their hands on him and like, couldn't get him like, oh, that's just heartbreaking. Yeah. Exactly.

[00:34:29] As Gloria is lying, lying under a beam and a fire is fireman is trying to help her. She hears from outside his colleagues saying, leave her. You have to get out of the house. And he didn't leave her, you know, thank God for him. Uh, and I'm sure she does every day, even though I don't believe in God, uh, that he disobeyed that. So that was a great little vignette in the story, but it also tells you why they couldn't get to Dion and Jennifer. As you said, they could get to them and how they carry that.

[00:34:58] Uh, Mari, when we did Grenfell, we talked to some of the firemen years after that, who carry that inability to help people with them. Yeah. And it, it, it's so annoying because Monty and Mark are like, nobody knew where they're at. They're like, oh my God, were they in the house? What about Monty's young daughter? They show up. What about the cat? Later that night. Wait, where's the cat?

[00:35:26] Before you get to like, what, at this point, what did you guys think was happening? Cause I, that's something I like about this story was that I wasn't sure what exactly was happening at this. I was, I was like, do we have like a meth lab situation here that, that, that blew up? Like, is that what happened here? Cause we know Mark is sketchy. We, we know, we know exactly what I thought. He has a white van. He owns a white van. And I did love from what, from what we find out happened. And they were seeding that into the preceding moments.

[00:35:55] Like they gave us little hints about what it was with the white van taking the furniture out. I was like, do they take the furniture out to make a meth lab? What was happening? I literally thought meth lab. Yeah. That's what I thought. It's like, that was at this, before it all was revealed. That's what I thought it was. Like, did it, was this an accidental meth lab blow up? I didn't know. Me too. I was like, I was like, dang, they had a meth lab explosion. Thank you for reminding me, Jason. Cause that was literally my first thought. I was like, I was like, how do you have a meth lab in the middle of this nice suburban? Freaking Mark, man.

[00:36:25] But then to find out it's so much more heinous than that. It's like, yeah. Mind blown. Yeah. Because it is then revealed that Mark and Monsi made a trip to a casino, what, two or three hours away just for them to be like, oh my God, our house is blown up. After more digging, fire investigators noticed, hey, there's TV remotes, but no TVs. There's not a lot of clothing here. Where's all the furniture? Well, come to find out they have been planning this fire.

[00:36:55] It was basically supposed to be an arson job for insurance money, about $300,000 apparently that they had been planning because this was the third attempt that they did for blowing up, trying to blow up the house. And I, I can't say luckily because it was planned. They had their, the daughter was at a babysitter and their cat was being boarded. But guess what? Overnight. Overnight. Both of them babysat overnight, boarded overnight.

[00:37:25] Three weeks, three weekends in a row. Three weekends in a row because they had tried it the previous two weekends and it didn't work. Also, I do not want to give criminals any ideas, but if your alibi is that you're at the casino, don't go to the casino, which would have to be one of the most surveilled film cameras everywhere, place on earth. Don't go there. They thought it was a plus. They thought it was a plus that they was that surveilled. They're like, we're going to, we're going to be showing in here in this casino.

[00:37:54] He played one hand. But don't be so dumb. And she was on the slots for 10 minutes. Yeah. And it was this. Don't be so dumb in it. Don't be so dumb while doing it. So dumb. Like they were, they were so easily caught. Like the arts guy came in and was like, yep, this, this, this, and there's a bomb in the microwave. We found the microwave and we found the bomb in the microwave and we found all this stuff that was knocked off of the gas systems. And oh yeah, by the way, they went to the casino and didn't get a hotel room because they knew they weren't going to be staying the night. Like these were just terrible.

[00:38:25] And, and I think they said by that third attempt too, they just got so like fed up that they just poured gas around the kitchen and stuff too. Like it was just stupid. And it's just like, how dumb do y'all have to be to be like, if Monty says she would have went with it because he said it was going to be a little fire girl, like little fire where? Like how dumb did these people? Yeah.

[00:38:51] And then to find out that these, these, this, this idiot Mark and his idiot brother are like out in bars asking people like, so if you want to set, if you want to set a house on, like how, how, how would you do that? Like just for no, no reason at all. Just none. How would you do that? Like, uh-huh. Uh-huh. Yeah. And it's like, oh my God, you guys are just terrible. The brother's mugshot. The brother's mugshot. I was like. Bob. I was like, explains a lot. Explains a lot. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Explains a lot.

[00:39:21] Explains a lot. I mean, Monty turns on them, which, you know, you go girl. I mean, sure. Sure, sure. I mean, she wasn't complicit, but okay, sure. Yeah. She got 50 years. She had to plead guilty to conspiracy. But yeah, the boys got worse? Question mark. Like in the end, it's meaningless. You're going to die in jail. All of you. Mark did die in jail. Yes. 2018. Very true. Yeah. Very true. Yeah. Died while incarcerated.

[00:39:51] Bob had 51 counts, including murder and arson. He is serving out two life sentences without parole, plus 70 years. Like we said, Monty pled guilty to conspiracy to commit arson and was sentenced to 50 years. And I'm just so pissed that two people are dead because these dummies couldn't criminal right. Didn't know how to set a small fire to get. A small fire. Like there are so many better ways you could have gotten. There's so many ways.

[00:40:19] This, you know, arson thing to go down. Also. And not involve your neighbors. Like. Burn your furniture. Burn your furniture. Burn your television. Yeah. Let it burn. And it's not as if. It's not as if Monty was like hard up for money. She was like, she had divorced this guy. I'm assuming. I got a nice settlement. But they just wanted more. Yeah. Sell the house. Why didn't you sell the house? Something. But God. That was so bad. I'm wondering. That house, I think. You're right.

[00:40:47] That had to have been more than a $300,000 house. Yeah. But then it's in Indiana though. So maybe. I mean, the price is lower, but. Yeah. I mean, listen now. Forget about it. Oh no. Yeah. But yeah. Yeah. I mean, it was a luxury deluxe house for sure. But they just were greedy and just wanted more money. And decided to get rid of the house and do it. I don't think they. These dummies didn't realize how big this was going to.

[00:41:15] I'm sure they did not intend to set the neighborhood on fire. I think they just. I don't know what you think when you're just throwing gasoline all over your house. Making a bomb. What did you think was going to happen? It's almost like it was almost like a worst ex story because we feel that that Mark potentially saw Moncy and moved in on her. She was very willing though. I'm not. I'm not excusing her at all. She knew what was going on.

[00:41:41] I mean, the man's driving his white van up to your house loading up all your furniture. Ridiculous. Greedy. Disgusting. Oh, Chibo. Oh, fühlt sich das nach Sommer an. Die neue Sommerwäsche von Chibo begeistert mit leuchtenden Farben und fröhlichen Trints. Feine Spitze, leichte Mikrofaser und sommerliche Schnitte sorgen für pures Wohlgefühl. Selbst an heißen Tagen.

[00:42:09] Entdecke jetzt die neue Wäschekollektion von Chibo und finde deine Lieblingsstücke für den Sommer. Let's get this new by G. Episode 3 entitled Fear Thy Neighbor. Miles and Melina thought they'd found their dream home, but a nightmare unfolds when evicted neighbor Jamal launches a relentless harassment campaign.

[00:42:33] Um, so this was, I think, yeah, this was not the best just because it's, it's very like the first one. It's kind of cut and dry and it's just sad. It's just, it's just super, super duper sad. Uh, we, we are talking to Melina here. She's telling us about her, how her and her husband Miles, um, move into a really nice house, a really nice corner lot in, um, I believe is an, uh, in Oakland and a neighborhood

[00:43:03] that is, I don't know, like half sketchy, half on the come up. Maybe it felt like that's what it was described as. I mean, either on the come up or the come down. The come down. Yeah. I mean, by the end of this, it's, it's on the, it's, it's because at one point they say your neighborhood is like the worst crime in Oakland. So I guess maybe it's on the come down at the, at the time they moved in and it was very kind of like half and half. Like if I think they, they mentioned like, you know, if you're a child living in an apartment,

[00:43:31] this was a good starter neighborhood to go into because you know, it does, it's not the cost of living not that bad, but yeah, of course I don't, I don't know how these people do this. Like I could not tell a story like this if I'm Melina and keep my stuff together. Right. Like she was very, yeah, she was telling the story as if it was just like another day, like as if, as if she was a, we saw on the season, some of the other stories, a friend of, or something that was on the periphery of this.

[00:43:58] I don't know how she tells this story with a, without breaking down every second. And yeah. So props to her for being able to do that. Um, and it's just like, you know, my, my, my dream man, my, my, my saint among saints, Miles. Like, oh, Miles. Yes. But he talked to people, even if they didn't want to be spoken to, he made the cashier respond to him. I thought, ah, tarnish, a tarnished angel. Well, I think they, they, they kind of relate as.

[00:44:27] The cashier does not want to respond. The cashier just wants to. Yes. They thought it was a positive. I immediately, as a retail girly, I thought, oh no. Yeah. Don't, no, don't take me out of my shell. My shell, I'm very happy in. I hear you there. But they, they want to make sure that we knew he was a gregarious guy. Yeah. He was the best guy. His mother, Bonnie, is on here. And for just a second, she almost had me because she was not speaking about him in the past tense. She was like, is my son, this, this, this.

[00:44:57] In the intro, she did not speak of him in past tense. And I don't, and that, I don't think that was a trickery thing. She still, she, I think she says near the end that he's still with her. But we, we quite soon do understand that we think we know who it is. But, um, so they have a neighbor. I believe that the neighbor is Sheila, right? Was the, the older, it's like an elderly woman. I believe she lived with two of her sons, if I remember correctly.

[00:45:26] But they were only renting. And the owner decided to sell the house. The owner died. The owner died. Oh, yes. And their children decided to sell the house. Flip it. The new owners decided to flip it. But I think what you need to know about the two sons will tell you everything is one was an inside son and one was an outside son. It was one of them living in the garage and one of them living. Yes, and the one living in the garage, the one living in the garage was Jamal, also known as JT. How dare you?

[00:45:56] Well, I had to listen to you sound like Ed Gein for like seven episodes. Very true. A very popular impersonation according to our fans, but okay. No. And so when the house is sold, Sheila and her other son move on and find other accommodations. Unfortunately, Jamal JT does not. He comes back, starts squatting in the old home and the new owners don't know.

[00:46:23] So at first, Melina and Miles, they're trying to like, they don't, you can, Miles is a black man. Melina is also a person of color. JT and his mom, Sheila, they were black as well. And I, my thought process was Miles at first did not want to call the law on JT when he was initially squatting because he didn't want to get him in trouble. But for some reason, JT turns his ire onto Miles.

[00:46:51] Well, because Miles does eventually call on, he does call it, call on JT. And that's what kind of calls the owner first. I believe it. He calls the owner. He doesn't even call the police. He calls the new owner and tells them that he is squatting. And he's trying to tell the owner like, hey, he's squatting here. You know, you need to come and do something to get him out. And, and that's, and JT is mad at Miles for calling the owner because again, it took a minute before Miles called the police.

[00:47:21] A little bit too long for my liking. He was giving him money and trying to find him little jobs around the house to do. So, you know, give him money. Yes, exactly. Miles was trying to help JT, but the problem is with people like JT, which I feel like, just like if we're saying that Francis had some sort of mental health issues, I think it's kind of quite clear that Jamal or also JT definitely had some mental health issues. With a little bit of, with a little bit of drugs mixed in there, I think. Right.

[00:47:51] A soup song? Thank you, Jason. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. A very bad, whatever you just said. Which only exacerbates the mental illness side of it. Yes. Exactly. Well, we actually see, we actually see JT on, on body worn camera and yeah, he's not, he's not well. He's not well. No, he's not at all. And he, so he proceeds to then come by their house at all hours of the night and just starts breaking their windows.

[00:48:18] The fact that he is just continuously breaking their windows, he starts by knocking on their door. Starts by just knocking on their door all hours of the night, banging very loudly. They said it would happen every night for like months. Then he started breaking their windows, which was very unfortunate since they had that big old window. Beautiful picture window. Beautiful. Huge window. Sealing side to side. Yeah.

[00:48:43] This ends up being 23 times that he breaks their window. At which, at what numbers, what number do you, do you stop and go, all right, I'm a plywood. All right, I'm gonna do this. I stop at like three or four. I'm like at four. The glazier. This is obviously going to be a thing. The glazier would come and go, sure, you want me to fix it? Well, at a certain point she says that's what they start doing. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:49:12] I need to plywood my stuff over until this is resolved and I need to move. And again, why do you not have a blicky? At this point, Miles is sitting. They can't sleep because they're terrified, but Miles is letting Melina and his family. Yes, they had. It was Melina who was pregnant. Miles himself had three daughters and then Melina also had a daughter.

[00:49:39] So there's four children in this house and they're scared. They're terrified. And again, like we said, like you have all these kids, like get out of this house. No house is worth it. Go live with your mother. Go do something. But like you can't stay there. Like this. Well, I know you don't want to be scared out of your house, but like you have to think of your safety. It's not worth it. Yeah, exactly. I think by the time that the person is saying in front of law enforcement on camera, I'm going to come back.

[00:50:09] And then I'm going to kill him. At that point, maybe you leave. No way before that. Like the third time this man throws a rock in my window. I'm like, okay, we we gotta go. We gotta leave. All of the windows. Are you electrifying the doorbell first? I'm home aloning that shit. Home aloning. I'm setting booby traps. Whatever I gotta do. Exactly. Miles just was on his porch with a bat all night. It's not good enough. It's not good enough. It was not. It wasn't.

[00:50:39] That's good enough for some neighborhood kids that might come and try and break into your car window or something. But it's not good enough for a obviously high, mincing, unstable man that keeps coming back. What? That's what he was. What? And that's not good enough. Like this is, he's not going to stop. Like, and you being, you can't be on the porch 24 or seven. Like, you have to take action.

[00:51:07] And like, that's what, that's what is so sad about this is that it didn't take action soon enough. They took action. And then. And then. And then. So we'll get to the end then. It's just like, oh, so it's so frustrating. Their neighbor, the neighbor Matt would help, um, miles do these, like, again, these kind of, um, surveillance, like just staying up with him and keeping him company again with a baseball bat and this animation. I'm sorry. If you are messing with my household, be prepared.

[00:51:37] I got that thing on me. I got that thing on me. I'm just saying. On the whole time. It is staying around. I'm in Virginia. I'm in a border state. So like, it's just, it, it, it was just so infuriating. And Jason, like you said, um, Melina is, she's pregnant. She's, I think she was like 35 weeks pregnant at this point. And they finally like, we're out, we're out of this house. We moved into apartment. They're in an apartment. They're like, yes, we can finally breathe. Ooh, it's good.

[00:52:06] But we got to go back to the house because we got to paint it and get it ready to be sold. When I tell you I'm paying people for that. I've never, yeah. Yes. But he did have other people. He did have friends doing it. Yeah. The neighbors, the neighbors in heaven. Like these neighbors are great. Like they all chipped in. They were all helping them keep watch over the house. But if you know, this is a threat that is constantly in your neighborhood, in your space, don't set foot back in that neighborhood until that is that threat is solved. You moved.

[00:52:34] It was just that you were afraid of feel up. And I just, yeah, he, I just felt, I just felt so bad because he, all he did was go back to, to talk about the painting with the people that he had hired for. And I, I just don't know. I really, I don't know if they told us, but I don't know if JT was literally in hiding, just waiting for him, you know, or if it was one of those like wrong place in the wrong time thing. But I guess it just kind of feels like, cause this was the first time he had come back

[00:53:02] with a, a, a weapon, a gun. As far as we know. Yeah. As far as we know, they had gotten to a scuffle the few weeks prior that was caught on the body cam footage. And like Sarah said, he literally said, okay, I'm going to come back and kill you. JT was taken to a prison. They thought that the, what happened is they thought he was still in prison, but because it was COVID, it would, this had, this started happening in 2020.

[00:53:28] They're basically kind of letting people out because of overcrowding in the jails. They didn't want people dying in the jails, stuff like that. So he comes out and I'm just like, who is doing this? And, and the, the biggest thing about this episode, the police, the police, again, not doing anything because Jamal was on probation. That was another thing that they said. Jamal was on probation. He wasn't checking in with his parole officer. Like, what are we doing here?

[00:53:56] Like I, I can, I can, cause you know, this, they were, they were seeding this episode for what we learned at the very end of the episode and, you know, the, the, whatever Melina did with, you know, suing the city and everything. So they kind of seeded that in this of like the police not doing enough ever. And I can, I can understand where, you know, procedure goes. If we, if you did, if you didn't see it happen, we can't arrest someone for it. Get that. Got it. But when, when things slip through the cracks so much at like the, the probation thing

[00:54:24] is what like really tears it free, which is just like, this is, this is a, a thing that's supposed to be in place to ensure that dangerous people that keep doing dangerous things don't get out so easily to, to wreak havoc even. And so the fact that that was, they, you slip through that crack. I don't care if it's COVID, I don't care, whatever. Like that was unforgiving. Exactly. And he, he was so emboldened because he was doing all this stuff and nobody was checking him. They said his parole, again, his parole. He was doing it in front of law enforcement.

[00:54:53] He was doing it in front of law enforcement and they did nothing. His parole officer did nothing. They, in parole, as far as I know, you're not even supposed to miss one parole meeting with your parole officer, let alone months worth of them. Like, I saw him sometime, sometime, sometime this year. I saw him, I think, I think I saw him. No. So yes. So JT ends up shooting Miles dead in the middle of their street in broad daylight in front of everybody. Like, very sad.

[00:55:23] It is caught partially on camera and it's just, it was just an infuriating episode to be, to be quite honest. That's why it's not. Sad for everybody. Yeah. It's not a ha-ha. Yeah. Because it's safe for JT as well. Nobody helped him. Yeah. Melina has to then give birth to their daughter. Unfortunately, Miles's three daughters, of course, go live with their mother.

[00:55:48] So Melina and her daughter now don't have, they were, they were with, they were all together as a family for, I believe she said seven to eight years. So now they, she no longer has her siblings there, but she does have her little sister. Melina has the little girl. And I love, we saw, we saw her little girl come in. Melina says she has Miles's eyes and, you know, silver linings, I guess.

[00:56:16] But it was just, it was just an infuriating watch. Melina did settle with the city for about $2.4 million. But again, Miles is gone. JT was found guilty of first degree murder and sentenced to 28.8 years to life, which, okay, that feels a little low to me, but whatever. Whatever. He's not me. I don't think he's getting out. That's the thing. How do you get probation? Well, he got it last time.

[00:56:43] So episode four entitled The Executor. When Charles's neighbors report him missing, suspicion falls on Caroline, who claims to be managing his estate, but is instead concealing a grisly crime. Jason, I believe you said this episode was kind of intriguing to you. It kind of reminded you of the other worst series. Yeah. I mean, this, this, because this was like devious behavior. Like this was, this was like twists and turns.

[00:57:12] This was, this was to me was crazy nuts, especially. And I, and I, you know, to kind of fast forward a little bit, like we, I love it when we hear from the perpetrator of the crime and they like admit and confess exactly what happened. I was like, that's like a perfect ending for me. So I really love the ending of this one specifically, but yeah, like, so we could introduce, like, and this was interesting because I don't know if we necessarily fit the perfect neighbor archetype because she didn't really do anything to her neighbors.

[00:57:42] It was, it was. She, she, she cut up, she dissolved and cut up a body in her apartment. Yeah, but it was, the neighbors didn't even realize until like years later. The sober, sober living and the dude is passed out in front of the neighbor's house on meth. But compared to the rest of worst neighbor, like where, she didn't kill anybody. She, you know, she annoyed people. Okay. She, she annoyed her neighbors for the, for the most part.

[00:58:10] But yeah, we, we hear about the story of, of Charles, Charles Wilding, right? Missing. Neighbors are good enough to be like, Hey, we haven't seen Charles in a while. Um, can we get somebody out to check on Charles? And we check on Charles and we find Carrie. Who's like, Oh yeah. You know what? You bet you just missed him. Like he's, he's, he's, he's in Carpinteria. Uh, I know it sounds like I just made that place up, but I swear I didn't.

[00:58:40] It's real. Uh, you can go check if you want. I mean, yeah, I, I, you know, I don't talk to Charles that much. I do manage all of his estates. I manage everything. Like, you know, I'm, I'm just fixing up the house for him. He's definitely not dead in here. So, you know, definitely don't. That smell you smell. That's just like rotten food. Not a decomposing body. Don't worry about that. Like, but I swear he's fine and well. It's like, okay. Like, you know, even the cops were at the first like, okay. All right. Okay. But our guy, Mark O'Donnell's like, nah, nah. Something's weird here. Something's weird.

[00:59:09] And this was, I think in all the, all the episodes we got, what gets to me is the like, really, really slow wheels of justice. Right. Because this case, I think took place over like several years. And in, in these years, they all know something, but it still takes several years to really get answers. And that's, I feel like that's a slow grinding wheels of justice. Because we, we contact Carrie in December. It was December of 2020.

[00:59:37] It's like, all right, something's weird here. And then in October of 2021, they're like, hey, you guys remember Charles, Charles Wildling? Remember that? Let's, let's, let's go back to that. Let's go back to that. And it's like, they, they come back again. They said, oh yeah, he's still, he's still in Carpentier. You want to talk to Charles? Yeah. Here's, here's Charles's number. Here's Charles's number. Yep. Go ahead. Like, okay. Hey, Charles, what's up? He's like, hey, hey, hey guys. Yeah. I'm good. I'm fine. I'm definitely alive. I'm definitely not, uh, you know, decomposing in a, in a vat of acid. I'm fine.

[01:00:07] Don't worry about it. And they're like, okay, well, Charles, I, you know, I'm glad you're okay, but can you give me some, like, some information about you? Charles's like, oh, information. Uh, no, I can't. I won't. And they're like, oh, oh. Charles, what's your birthday? Oh, oh. I can't remember. And you, and you would think Carrie, so far, being the criminal mastermind she is, would be ready for some of these questions, but she's not. Because the guy, you can just, like, and they do it in the animation too, which is so funny.

[01:00:38] Because the guy sitting on the phone, he's like, social security number? And Carrie's like, oh, just tell me you don't know. He's like, I don't know my social security number. I'm 70 years old. Tell him you can't remember. Tell him you can't remember. I'm 70 years old. And I'm sure I give my social security number thousands of times in my life. But you know what? Dang it. I just, I just totally forgot. You know, I'm 70. My mind's going. And luckily we got someone in Mark O'Donnell who's kind of like, who's kind of on his stuff. He's like, oh, okay, Charles. Yeah, you don't remember. That's great. Hey, I'm just glad you're okay.

[01:01:07] Like, hangs with the phone like, there's some crazy shit happening here. We got to figure this shit out. And so, but again, more time moves on. More time moves on. Just like, okay, cool. And in this, we also kind of get, we kind of get a, we get a flashback. Something that's a little annoying to me about these worsts ever is the jumping back and forth so much that we do. I kind of wish it was a little more linear, but that's, it's cool. They got a style about them.

[01:01:33] So we flashback to 2003 where we hear about, about Carrie from a friend, Dusty. Dusty's like, hey, me and Carolyn, we were, we were cool. We were hanging out. Carolyn's like, Tommy from Martin. She ain't got no job, but that's cool. Cause I got a, I got a rich ass husband who pays for anything. So I just got to bring along with me. And first class, I want to get divorced from my rich ass husband. And I tell this to Carrie. Carrie's like, girl, don't worry about it. I got you. I got you. I give you all this advice. I'll tell you all things to do.

[01:02:02] Little, little, little, little does Dusty know. Dusty's getting charged this whole time. Eventually gets a bill for $152,000 for quote unquote legal advice. That Carrie, who has, remind you folks, has no legal training whatsoever. Has not gone to a day of law school. Right. Giving Dusty all this free advice. Not free. All this advice that Dusty thinks is free. That most of the time Dusty's probably going like, uh-huh. Yeah, sure.

[01:02:31] And is probably totally disregarding. No, you shouldn't have been paying attention. Cause Carolyn is charging your ass. By the way, uh, you, invoices for both of y'all in your emails. Check it out. Uh, want to make sure I billed you for all the, uh, you know, podcast things I've done. Since this is a thing we're doing now. Oh, no. Just be aware it's coming your way. Um, don't worry. It'll be sensible. Um, but yeah. And Dusty's like this, this, this, this, this no good MF right here is charging me 150.

[01:02:59] Silly me and my ex-husband because she thinks she can get some money out of my rich ex-husband. $152,000. Obviously the case was dismissed. I loved, it was not a, I don't know if it's something that we necessarily needed to tell the complete story, but I'm glad it gave a little more texture to how crazy Carrie is. The audacity of this asshole. The audacity. Uh, so yeah, uh, back to October, 2021, we are following up on old Charles that we heard from. And they're like, okay.

[01:03:29] Uh, so Carrie gave us an address for where Charles is at. So let's go to the address to see, see what, what is up with Charles. We get up with, we get up with quote unquote Charles and the guy, the guy is probably shitting his pants when he opens the door and they go Charles, right? You were who we were talking to. He's like, oh, oh, Charles, Charles, Charles, Chuck. We call him Chuck around here. Um, he was, he was just here. You, you just missed him again. Damn. You guys, you guys can never, you just missed him. He's living somewhere else.

[01:03:58] Now he's not here by close the door. It's like, okay, cool, cool, cool. And so Mark is not like, okay, like this is, this is definitely crazy. So let's, let's dot. Let's dig a little deeper. We dig, we dig a little deeper into the documents of the trust and all this. It's all fake. It's all forged. There's no trust. Carrie set this whole thing up. So this is all a big scam. And we also hear. All of it. We also hear from Carrie's neighbors at a Beverly Glen. Like, I guess this is a condo complex.

[01:04:27] And Carrie is now starting to be really weird. Carrie is now stealing packages. Carrie is now having like unsavory people in, in her house, uh, making noises at all times of night. Uh, not a great. They have the code to the door. They have the code to the front door. They just keep coming in and out. Coming in and out. So Carrie is not being a very good, uh, neighbor at all. Crazy. Oh my God. I'd be so mad. I would be so mad. Mark gets into a little friend.

[01:04:54] So when Lyndon popped up on, on my screen and it said, Lyndon postal inspector. What? It was like, ooh, what are we about to get into? Lyndon and Mark become the dynamic duos that brings her down. Yeah. We hear that, uh, you know, Carrie has been evicted from her, uh, from her condo. Now she gotta go find some other place to live. So she goes and terrorizes this, uh, very nice neighborhood. We, we meet Lisa. Lisa's like, yeah, things are great. And then, uh, here comes Carrie. It's like, Carrie happens.

[01:05:24] She opens, she opens a sober living in our neighborhood. And the way, the way that Lisa, much similar to the second story, I was just like, oh my God, there are people that had done drugs in my neighborhood. Oh my gosh. Um, Lisa's like, okay. Okay. Gotta keep all the kids in. Gotta make sure everything's good. But, uh, she was very warranted because things get very much out of control very soon, very fast. And it becomes evident. This is not really that Carrie is probably getting money from the state and the cities are running a sober living house.

[01:05:53] But this is no one in our house is sober. There's a lot of shit going on in there. A lot of stuff happening. It's time to bust Carrie. Uh, Mark and Lyndon, they get, they get their shit together. Like living her best life on Charles Wilding's dime. And so we finally get all our stuff together where we go and we're going to raid Carrie's house. Raid Carrie's house. There is just, there's guns and drugs.

[01:06:21] They're, they're, they're, it's as if she's in action and decide to like zip, like make a display case out of her guns and like zip tie some guns to, to, to a closet. That was crazy. Look at all my guns and look at all my drones. There's like a ton of people in the house. Did you notice it was all different? Police badges. The federal badge. Passports. Yeah. The passport. They got a whole thing going on around here. There's a lot of happiness. This is a criminal enterprise. Yeah. That's a good word for it. Dumb. Yeah. Dumb.

[01:06:51] So they bust, they bust. Stay dumb criminals. They bust meth addled Carrie. Carrie. She's like, uh, what? Who's it? What's happening? I love how they put the bags on the eyes of the, of the cartoon. That was good. Uh, very, very haggard. And like, all right, not least. All right, Carrie. Here we are. It's a moment of truth. They sit her down in her meth addled house. Like Carrie. We like, yes, this is all bad. This ain't what we here for. Like, where's Charles? What's going on with Charles? She's like, Charles.

[01:07:20] Oh, Charles. Yeah. I don't know. Like, is, is Charles still alive? I hope so. That'd be nice, right? I hope so. I hope so. That'd be cool if Charles is alive. They're like, Carrie, girl, stop. Stop. She's like, what? No, I don't know what you're talking about. She's like, I don't know. So we find out that she has been bleeding June Wildlings accounts for two years for almost $600,000.

[01:07:46] Carrie's story is that she became the executor of June's estate, which helps her manage the estate for Charles. Right? So Charles is June's son. I assume this woman was probably like 90 something when she died, because Charles is 70s damn self. So it was like, you know, Carrie's story is that June appointed her the trustee for Charles, because Charles would know how to manage. This is Carrie's story. Okay? Through everything, through all of the digging we do into Carrie's life, we find a man named

[01:08:16] Jason Croth. How dare they? Don't you mean Jason Croth? My name is Jason Croth. I'm Jason Croth. Why? Why? Who wants to know? He's the kind of guy, they'd be like, are you Jason Croth? He'd be like, who wants to know? He's that guy. Who wants to know? Who wants to know? A body? Yeah, somebody. With rats? A body? What? Decomposed? And so Jason's on some of these accounts with Carrie's like, all right, who's Jason? Let's get Jason here.

[01:08:45] And Jason, it don't even take much prodding. He's just like, I'll tell you everything. I'll tell you every damn thing. It's all her fault. And Mark says to him, the soul of this body is going to haunt you for the rest of your life. Unless you tell me what I want to know. Well, I found him and he was dead. And then we put him and then we cut him up. And then we, we siphoned him off. And then we. They tell him that. He's like, no, not me. It was them. Like, it's not going to haunt me. It was them. It's like, no, he's still going to haunt you, my guy. And so he basically, he gives up the ghost.

[01:09:13] He's like, all right, here's what happened. I was going to go burglarize his house. That's all I was going to do. So I get some stuff. I find this guy. He is dead, dead. He's like. Stuck to the floor. Stuck to the floor. Rats in his mouth, y'all. Rats in his mouth. I did not need that visual. I wish he would have cut that out of the show. Rats in his mouth. Even the animation held back from showing us.

[01:09:42] So there was darkness with little rat eyes. Thank God. Little red eyes coming out of it. That's enough. That's enough. And so they go, Jason. They did a good job on that. Fuck into a house. And you find a decomposing man stuck to the floor with rats in his mouth. What's the first thing you do? I call my friend Carrie. I call my friend Carrie. She'll know what to do. It's like, oh, okay. So, hey, Jason tells Carrie. Carrie's like, boom, I got you, bro. They go into the house.

[01:10:12] They take the body out of the house. They cut the body attached to the floorboards. They cut out the floorboards. That's disgusting. That's so disgusting. Disgusting. Ugh. And, you know, they bring it. They, you know, Jason tells a story. I think they took it back to her house in Beverly Glen. Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And so now we're like, okay, we got Jason. Let's get Carrie and see what Carrie's got. And we're going to hook Carrie up to a polygraph. I was like, this must be some, like, advanced polygraph. I didn't see no Y. I didn't see nothing. No.

[01:10:42] I was like, is this really a polygraph? I don't know. Mari, I feel like you're more in the forensic science world over there. Should I see some Y or something? We don't use polygraphs. Nobody uses polygraphs anymore. So I don't even understand how they even did this. I think they just told her. I think they just told her. Everything that you're saying is rude. You know the seat you're sitting in right now? The seat right now you're sitting in is a polygraph seat. They made it up. We're going to be able to. So we're going. I don't care what you told anybody else. They're like, check this. The truth. Marker's partner, Linda, are like, check it out. She's so freaking dumb.

[01:11:11] She's going to bleed us. Watch, watch, watch, watch, watch. Hey, Carrie, the seat you're sitting right now is a lie detector seat. We're going to know if you lie if you're sitting in that seat. Like, she's so dumb. She's going to fall for it. And she does. So good. Because she starts to tell everything. Sings like a bird. Yeah, and they do mention that, you know, I guess there was some sort of also plea deal mapped out of like, listen, you tell us the truth. You might get a lighter sentence. So and I love this. I love that. She's like, she's telling the story. She's like, yeah. So Jason called me, came over there.

[01:11:41] We bought some chemicals. We bought some supplies. We chopped up old Chucky, put him in some bags, brought him to. Why did you bring him to your house, though? That's what I thought, too. Yeah, like you could have done that at his house. You had an empty house. Yeah, like you didn't think somebody was going to see. And little, like, I guess Carrie knew what she was doing because we talked to her neighbors at Beverly Glen. And that first place is like, you know what? There was a lot of noise one night. And you know what?

[01:12:10] There was a smell of decaying. But I just didn't. I just thought they were making meth. Yeah. I just feel like Carrie could have walked out of her apartment with a skull and like a hand that's almost done decomposing. They're like, huh, that's weird. I don't know what she's doing. It's like, oh, this human skull? I'm just doing Hamlet. I'm doing a Hamlet production later and I just need this for that. They were so clueless. Like, huh, yeah, that was weird. Huh?

[01:12:36] I remember one night there was a lot of noise and a lot of thumping as if a body was falling on the floor. It's like, oh, my God, you guys are so dumb. But Carrie proceeds to tell the story. They tried to break. I wish Carrie would have confirmed this. Like, did you get this from Breaking Bad? Is this where you got this idea from? Was to, you know, because the people like Linden and them say that. They're like, yeah, it's like Breaking Bad.

[01:13:01] They got lye and acid, dumped it all in a blue container and tried to just like decompose. It's not decomposed, but like really just break down this body. De-flesh. Yeah. Dissolve. Dissolve. That's a good one. Dissolve. They're really trying to dissolve old Chuck in this like blue tub. The sinews dissolve. They were left with the bones. Oh, my God. The bones. And when she was like, yeah, it didn't work all the way. It works like most of the way, but we had to really kind of like chop up his bones and

[01:13:31] like really make him into a fine dust. And then we went out to San Francisco and dumped the rest of his body in the bay and took a private jet back home. That was the part I was like, took a private jet back home. I thought that too. I took a photograph, a holiday photograph of myself sitting on the boat with my aviators on. I mean, I don't even think this person was like that mentally unstable. I think this person was just very deep.

[01:13:59] Like that's what most of this was to me. Like we talked about, you know, Francis and we talked about JT, how they were mentally unstable. Yes, Carrie was on drugs, but I think a lot of it was just this person was very like, yes, very heinous person in general. And but it worked like, listen, it worked for for a minute. Like they were like, yeah, and she had a whole spreadsheet of all the people she could do this to to try and like get some of their money. I was like, dang, but it kind of worked over a little bit. Oh, so do you believe they really just found him dead?

[01:14:30] Did they confirm that? Like I believe it. Oh, I believe it because they do show where the floorboards were cut and they first of all, they wrapped him in the blue tarp and they do go back to the body worn footage that we saw when they arrived first to the house and the black mold. She should have gone to jail because it was COVID and she was wearing her mask under her nose. But anyway, and she says, oh yeah, when when the police first came, the body was still in the house. And you go back to the body worn footage and you can see the blue tarp right there.

[01:14:59] Sorry, it's not funny. It's not funny, but it is funny because nobody killed him. It's just pitiful. It's just pitiful for poor old child. I just could not get over the neighbors. They're like, hmm, something was weird. Like it's like, yeah, you know, I did see Carrie dragging a carpet and it had like red stuff coming out of the carpet. I was wondering what that was like, did she spill jam on her carpet? What happened? One of them said, I just assumed she was a normal meth addict. Yeah.

[01:15:24] Which a normal meth addict, normal meth addict. Gotcha. Gotcha. That's it for all four episodes of worst neighbor ever. So Jason, how many magnifying glasses are you going to rate worst neighbor ever out of a possible five? Then we give us one of three. Three. Um, like I said earlier, it was like, you know, I didn't feel like they, these things were as compelling as a previous worst, uh, worst iterations.

[01:15:52] Um, but you know, I still, again, very well made, I'll say, uh, except for my little gripes about being all the flashbacks and stuff. Again, the animation just not, I think you can give a magnifying glass by itself to the animation. Like it just adds, adds a level for, for me. So I'll, I'll say a three. Like I said, it just was not as compelling as are the worst, um, iterations we've had for Okay. Fair. Uh, Sarah, how many magnifying glasses are you going to rate this series out of a possible five? It might be recency bias, but I think I like this better.

[01:16:20] I know it's a rating, not a ranking, but I am going to give it 3.75 and I am going to thoroughly recommend it. It is emotional. Like we, you know, we, we try to entertain, but people do get killed and some of it is just so fucking heartbreaking, but yeah, it's true crime. Uh, and if you like that and you like really good production and really well told stories like the narrative lines are really good. The order that these, as I said earlier, the order that the episodes is in makes complete sense.

[01:16:49] So I'm going to 3.75, but a very enthusiastic rate. Well, I can't ever tell if I'm just, this is just like an observation. I can't ever tell if I'm like annoyed that there's so much texture. Like, do you ever guys feel that when you're watching, like, okay, I don't need to know all this information. Some of it to me felt like filler, but then also, well, yeah. But I mean, just all the flashback stuff of like, Hey, we want to tell you the whole life story of this person that really doesn't impact the crime all that much. I think they do in 50 minutes.

[01:17:19] What some docuseries take three episodes to do. And that's including going back. I agree. Backstories. I like it, but I, I will fight for your right to not like it. No, it's not. And I try to like, think like, did I need this information? Did this information add to my feelings about the person? I think that's a lot of it is we're, they're trying to help us like really feel for these people, which I didn't, I didn't need a whole lot to feel for this person in the first place. But I think, I think it like, I'm trying to like decide with myself, is it unneeded or does it give more texture?

[01:17:49] So it's a case on case basis. Well, again, Jason, we're used to three parters of this. So I think it's, it's why we are like, yeah, we're, we like it because it's very compact, very tight, and it's not as much filler. So I can, I can definitely see that. I'm, I'm kind of split because I do. I really liked it. Well, I'm gonna give it a 3.5. I was going back and forth between 3.5 and 4. I think it's very compelling.

[01:18:14] Every time there's a worst, whatever, uh, series drops, I'm, I'm there watching it. It's just proven just really, um, effective and very entertaining. And these stories were just heartbreaking. So that's why, that's why it's kind of funny. I kind of took it down a notch just because I was like, man, this isn't fun, but, but they are very like compelling. And I, I do recommend them, especially, uh, especially episode two.

[01:18:41] I thought episode two was, uh, very, very interesting, um, because I, I didn't see where it was going. So yeah, I would give it a 3.5, 3.5 is still good. At Crime Scene, we're eager to hear your feedback and suggestions for future episodes. You can subscribe by going to crimeseenepod.com or search Crime Scene. That's S-E-E-N wherever you get your podcasts. You can follow Crime Scene everywhere at Crime Scene Pod or email us at crimeseenepod at gmail.com.

[01:19:07] You can support us at buymeacoffee.com slash crime scene pod. That's S-E-E-N folks. Uh, don't get caught up with S-C-E-N-E podcast. That's them. This is us. Crime Scene Pod everywhere. S-E-E-N. It's a joke. Be like Anna Quinn and Mildred who have both joined our monthly membership. Thank you so much. Members receive exclusive bonus content, including watching us record this episode live and hearing

[01:19:37] all the stuff that gets cut out in the, in the edit, as well as contributing to the discussion. Thank you, chat. You have been lively and interesting. You can also support us by buying our merch. Yes, we have Crime Scene Tumblers available at my shop. You can go to maricraftstomuch.bigcartel.com. While you're there, look at my other book-themed tumblers. Uh, if you don't find your favorite book, let me know and I'll make something just for you. The link to the store is in the show notes.

[01:20:05] Thank you so much for everybody who's been buying our Crime Scene Tumblers. It's been so fun making, making it for you guys. So get your merch today. And if you're only listening and not watching, Amari is showing everybody the beauty. You can also support us for free. I like that, uh, price tag, rate and review Crime Scene so that others can find us. Five stars only. Five stars. Your support makes a big difference. Jason, what do you have going on and where can the people find you?

[01:20:33] Big goings on in my world coming up. Uh, we have a new season of Married First Sight coming out season 20. So me and Aja Welch will be on, uh, Rob has a podcast on the Perfect Match podcast talking about season 20. We'll have some bonus coverage over on our Patreon over at the Perfect Match podcast. So check that out on Patreon. If you want some, uh, season 20 supplemental content, content, we'll have a special guest song. We'll be talking about each drop of episodes, both on Rob has a podcast and on our Patreon. So check that out where you get your podcasts.

[01:21:00] You can also check me out on the Good Pod where me and Marissa Garza rewatch the show, The Good Wife, and, uh, go through that whole series. Uh, yeah, that aim that float your boat. Come on over. Sarah, what do you have going on and where can people find you? Other people can follow me if they'd like to do that. Uh, basically everywhere on the internet, but I'm particularly on Blue Sky at Sarah Carradine. Over on Babes in the Conclave, I'm covering The Traitors, Hungary, season three with Annabelle Fiddler. What about you, Mari? What have you got going on? You can find me over on Blue Sky at MariTalksTooMuch.

[01:21:30] That's two like the number two. Uh, that's basically, uh, where I am at. I am talking Big Brother over there. It's officially Big Brother season. We are up to our elbows in it. It's, it's, this is me for the next three months. Uh, but don't be afraid. So go and follow me. Uh, also over on Recap Kickback, me and Chappelle have been just, oh my God. We've been having so much fun talking about not only House of the Dragons season three, but the Vampire Lestat.

[01:21:59] I've also been making lots of, uh, tumblers for both House of the Dragon and Lestat listeners. It's been amazing. If you are not watching, House of the Dragons is great. Season three is great. But if you are not watching the Vampire Lestat, you are totally missing out. It's such a great series. Um, and even if you're not watching it, please come over to Recap Kickback and listen to me and Chappelle talk about it. You can go to RecapKickback.com in order to subscribe wherever you get your podcast.

[01:22:27] But more importantly, you can go and see our beautiful faces over on YouTube by going to YouTube.com slash at Recap Kickback. Sarah, what are we watching next week? Next week, our main topic is going to be Murder 101 with Ellen Marsh. Yes, you asked us to have her back. She is coming back. You can watch that show on Prime. And the University of Cosmic Intelligence cult. Yes, it's another cult. We can't help ourselves. That's on Hulu. So watch either or both and send us your comments and questions.

[01:22:57] Thanks to Jason Reed for joining us. Will from America for the theme music. Supporters in the chat. And for all of the nice neighbors out there. Or neighbors that just ignore us, which is also fine. That is fine. Until next time. Case closed.